The family club reaps $23million from pokies.

[madmug]

Yeah, but nobody here is talking about changing the rules about pokies, and removing them.

It's all about AFL clubs not owning them.


I hate pokies, but as I've said several times. I doubt it matters one jot to punters who owns the machines they're pumping money into, and if they're going to do it anyway, then I'd rather AFL clubs collect the profits than Woolies.

Campaign to reduce the total number of machines, and I'm on board. Campaign to change the ownership of machines while leaving the same number in the same places, and really, what's the point?

There is NO societal change from that, so how would the AFL be 'leading the way'?

They would be 'leading the way' as community clubs. Behaving in an ethical way would show their community bona fides. Simple really.

 

[kickazz]

Yeah, but nobody here is talking about changing the rules about pokies, and removing them.

It's all about AFL clubs not owning them.


I hate pokies, but as I've said several times. I doubt it matters one jot to punters who owns the machines they're pumping money into, and if they're going to do it anyway, then I'd rather AFL clubs collect the profits than Woolies.

Campaign to reduce the total number of machines, and I'm on board. Campaign to change the ownership of machines while leaving the same number in the same places, and really, what's the point?

There is NO societal change from that, so how would the AFL be 'leading the way'?

You are right about this. It's sort of like the new Lotto Land vs buying a regular tatts ticket. At least with the latter some of the money goes to building hospitals, schools, etc via tax. The former however just goes to some international corporate.

But I guess my premise here is based on playing the long game. If we wanted to ban or curtail pokies we need strong public support for it, and that's where footy could play is part.

 

[kriles76]

http://www.theage.com.au/business/h...-wins-pokies-premiership-20170728-gxl3q5.html

One of nine Victorian clubs that are guilty.

Kudos to North Melbourne for no going down this road.

I see your point, Hawthorn profit from gambling, which for the most part is a legal activity.

But North Melbourne are sponsored by McDonalds and Coca Cola, two brands which contribute significantly to obesity, diabetes, and a trove of other deleterious health effects.

The AFL profits from its partners selling similar sugar/salt/fat laden brands and products at AFL sanctioned events. Alcohol products are sold in significant volumes at AFL matches. The AFL and associated stadia provide avenues for gambling where AFL matches are played.

Numerous other clubs are sponsored by companies which provide products and/or services there a deleterious to one's physical, mental, emotional and financial health.

Ban one vice, ban them all.

 

[kickazz]

I see your point, Hawthorn profit from gambling, which for the most part is a legal activity.

But North Melbourne are sponsored by McDonalds and Coca Cola, two brands which contribute significantly to obesity, diabetes, and a trove of other deleterious health effects.

The AFL profits from its partners selling similar sugar/salt/fat laden brands and products at AFL sanctioned events. Alcohol products are sold in significant volumes at AFL matches. The AFL and associated stadia provide avenues for gambling where AFL matches are played.

Numerous other clubs are sponsored by companies which provide products and/or services there a deleterious to one's physical, mental, emotional and financial health.

Ban one vice, ban them all.

But pokies are worse.


Coke is right up there though

 

[scotty13]

I dont see how the AFL can ban its clubs from having pokies? Lets say they make a rule where clubs cannot have pokie machines there is an easy solution for clubs.
Hawthorn Football Club sells all its venues to a new company called The Hawks Club, who then 'donate' or sponsor Hawthorn Football Club $23m each year. The club does not own the machines, a seperate company, who just happens to have the same board members as the football club own all the pubs.

Something similar happened here when the liquor peoples refused to grant liquor licenses to football clubs, so the clubs created a seperate company as such to get the licence.

 

[The_Wookie]

I dont see how the AFL can ban its clubs from having pokies? Lets say they make a rule where clubs cannot have pokie machines there is an easy solution for clubs.
Hawthorn Football Club sells all its venues to a new company called The Hawks Club, who then 'donate' or sponsor Hawthorn Football Club $23m each year. The club does not own the machines, a seperate company, who just happens to have the same board members as the football club own all the pubs.

More or less what Rugby League did in NSW. leagues clubs donate back to the football operation from the profit.

 

[ApplecrossWC]

Gotta love all the people trying to justify pokies.

Your average Hawthorn supporter probably enjoys taking money off the "povo" people who play pokies

 

[Gralin]

Gotta love all the people trying to justify pokies.

Your average Hawthorn supporter probably enjoys taking money off the "povo" people who play pokies

Yeah cause it ends up in our pockets

You want to know where the AFL and players as a collective stand on gambling (why single out pokies)
The earnings from gambling were part of the profit sharing in the new cba.

It's ingrained in their culture, they are sponsored by it, pokies might go eventually but bet365 or whoever else will just fill the void

I heard an ad on the radio during the day about 24x7 horse racing via a phone app.

Pokies are bad, mobile phones will end up being worse

 

[ApplecrossWC]

Yeah cause it ends up in our pockets

You want to know where the AFL and players as a collective stand on gambling (why single out pokies)
The earnings from gambling were part of the profit sharing in the new cba.

It's ingrained in their culture, they are sponsored by it, pokies might go eventually but bet365 or whoever else will just fill the void

I heard an ad on the radio during the day about 24x7 horse racing via a phone app.

Pokies are bad, mobile phones will end up being worse

Do a bit of research and you will find pokies are a much, much bigger problem when it comes to problem gamblers. That's why some people have a much bigger problem with pokies compared to sports gambling.

 

[Gralin]

Do a bit of research and you will find pokies are a much, much bigger problem when it comes to problem gamblers. That's why some people have a much bigger problem with pokies compared to sports gambling.

yeah some people, everyone is going to have their weakness
i'd be happy if gambling went away all together, I'm sick of seeing it all over the tv and radio and internet, I'd like to watch footy without the constant attempts to get me to give my money to a betting company

 

[ApplecrossWC]

yeah some people, everyone is going to have their weakness
i'd be happy if gambling went away all together, I'm sick of seeing it all over the tv and radio and internet, I'd like to watch footy without the constant attempts to get me to give my money to a betting company

Yes there are too many ads.

This is a good article explaining how poker machines are more addictive than other forms of gambling.

https://theconversation.com/bright-...hines-create-addicts-and-rob-them-blind-49143

 

[Gralin]

Yes there are too many ads.

This is a good article explaining how poker machines are more addictive than other forms of gambling.

https://theconversation.com/bright-...hines-create-addicts-and-rob-them-blind-49143

i'm not disputing that pokies are the worst currently
they are built specifically to suck you in
I'm saying its getting worse in other ways as well
used to be you had to go into a TAB or be at the races to bet, now you can bet anywhere you can get a phone signal, you don't need the cash on you and the race can be anywhere in the world

 

[Mojocorp]

Yes pokies are bad, but would you rather have:

1. A football club generating revenue from them?
2. A private company making money and keeping it all in their own pockets?

At least with a club, members are getting a benefit in a round about way.

 

[The_Reaper]

Gotta love all the people trying to justify pokies.

Your average Hawthorn supporter probably enjoys taking money off the "povo" people who play pokies

Worst is state government.

 

[bombersfan4000]

Worst is state government.

What’s the go with the WA government? To my knowledge they are the only state to have not issued licenses for the machines out side of the casino? They have done well not to bend to overturn that ruling

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Brian Cook leading again and showing why he is the best CEO in the game by aiming to get rid of the pokies by 2020 at the cattery. Oh and he has started planning for fund raising for the last stage of Kardinia Park redevlopment stage 5 and $100m cost.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/geelon...-cats-reliance-on-gaming-20171218-h06y0z.html
Donations could eventually replace gaming as an income stream for clubs battling to reduce their reliance on gaming revenue, says Geelong CEO Brian Cook. Geelong will eliminate their debt through their fundraising initiative "Our Ambition" and will look to raise further money through donations in 2018 to extend the reach of community programs run through the club.

"We make more out of donations now than we do out of gaming," Cook said. "That is what is happening in the sports world in my opinion, that philanthropy is taking over from gaming, and it is not a bad exchange." The Cats have committed to removing gaming as a revenue source by 2020 but admit it is still a struggle to find alternative revenue streams. Geelong revealed they now earn about $3 million less through gaming than they did five years ago, with their net revenue from gaming being about $1.1 million in 2017.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/geelon...-cats-reliance-on-gaming-20171218-h06y0z.html

 

[telsor]

Brian Cook leading again and showing why he is the best CEO in the game by aiming to get rid of the pokies by 2020 at the cattery. Oh and he has started planning for fund raising for the last stage of Kardinia Park redevlopment stage 5 and $100m cost.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/geelon...-cats-reliance-on-gaming-20171218-h06y0z.html
Donations could eventually replace gaming as an income stream for clubs battling to reduce their reliance on gaming revenue, says Geelong CEO Brian Cook. Geelong will eliminate their debt through their fundraising initiative "Our Ambition" and will look to raise further money through donations in 2018 to extend the reach of community programs run through the club.

"We make more out of donations now than we do out of gaming," Cook said. "That is what is happening in the sports world in my opinion, that philanthropy is taking over from gaming, and it is not a bad exchange." The Cats have committed to removing gaming as a revenue source by 2020 but admit it is still a struggle to find alternative revenue streams. Geelong revealed they now earn about $3 million less through gaming than they did five years ago, with their net revenue from gaming being about $1.1 million in 2017.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/geelon...-cats-reliance-on-gaming-20171218-h06y0z.html

Going by memory here, but that's curious considering they were rebuilding/upgrading/moving (don't recall exactly..it was a significant investment though) their pokies facility/venue according to their financial report of a year or two back.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Neil Balme in his kids podcast also confirmed the open secret that Richmond is working towards ending its pokies arrangements too (caro also alluded to this in hers). No dates mentioned, as its happening when aligned leisure replaces its income

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Going by memory here, but that's curious considering they were rebuilding/upgrading/moving (don't recall exactly..it was a significant investment though) their pokies facility/venue according to their financial report of a year or two back.

Maybe you need to read 4 or 5 or 8 annual reports and do some figures. I have no idea about the cats prior investment and profits from pokies, but Cook and the board do and you would think they have done their sums correctly.

 

[Gralin]

Cook said this year their net revenue from Pokies was around $1 million

this is the thing, the papers report the gross revenue from Pokies and tend to ignore the associated costs of the licenses, venues etc that go with it

 

[telsor]

Maybe you need to read 4 or 5 or 8 annual reports and do some figures. I have no idea about the cats prior investment and profits from pokies, but Cook and the board do and you would think they have done their sums correctly.

I'm sure they do, and I'm not questioning their decision, just pointing out that, if my recollection is correct, this seems to be a reversal from their previous direction. Hell, it could be that the new venue has a better sale price and they got a good offer for it.

As for checking, I'll try, but I'm currently internet/time limited, so that might need to wait.

 

[scotty13]

The big challenge is what you replace the pokies with.
People that play the pokies may eat at the venue and buy a few drinks, so if you remove the pokies you potentially remove these customers which equals more than the $1m loss from pokie revenue.

If they put something that brings people in to their venue where the pokies were (rather than just additional bar space), then this additional loss is covered through the new patrons walking through the door. Im sure though that Geelong have looked at all of this and have their plan in place.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Cook said this year their net revenue from Pokies was around $1 million

this is the thing, the papers report the gross revenue from Pokies and tend to ignore the associated costs of the licenses, venues etc that go with it

Also the trouble with media reports is that they usually just pull out the venues figure from annual reports which includes food and beverage revenue.

Unless it comes from the state government with Gross gaming revenues, less pay out figures to the punter, less taxes paid to the government, which then give Net Gaming Revenue for the venue from its pokies you have no idea what is the split in that venues figure what is pure pokies revenue for club and what is food and beverage and other revenue that gets reported in the clubs' annual report.

 

[Rob]

The big challenge is what you replace the pokies with.
People that play the pokies may eat at the venue and buy a few drinks, so if you remove the pokies you potentially remove these customers which equals more than the $1m loss from pokie revenue.

If they put something that brings people in to their venue where the pokies were (rather than just additional bar space), then this additional loss is covered through the new patrons walking through the door. Im sure though that Geelong have looked at all of this and have their plan in place.

Presumably the licences must be worth a fair bit? I gather they can be sold?

 

[telsor]

Presumably the licences must be worth a fair bit? I gather they can be sold?

They'd be worth a bit...The financial report would have a value for them (price less amortisation).

Mind you, as I've pointed out before, if you sell them, then you just have have the same machines, taking money from the same people with the only difference being whose pockets the profits go into, thus removing any claims to it being a moral move.