Unsolved The Family Murders

[Kurve]

The Who's Who List

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Out of Sight - The Untold Story of Adelaide's Gay Hate Murders

The Cases of Forensic Pathologist Colin Manock

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Unsolved - The Family Murders - MEDIA

This thread may be used to post the Family Murders media related content. To include press and gathered photographs from various sources. Please feel free to post but as this is a no discussion thread, comments will be deleted or moved at discretion. WHO'S WHO VICTIMS AB - Alan Barnes 16yo...

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[John Barnes]

He was just a random dude who had met Alan through Darko. He was driving along Grand Junction Rd on the Sunday and saw Alan approaching a car that had pulled over.

It's a reasonable coincidence. Far more reasonable that any other explanation.

Also, Alan stayed at Darko's house - which is Darko's parent's house. I doubt members of the Family were invited.

One of the things that get me is you have 48 hrs after a defect to drive your car unless it is dangerous to drive and would not have let him drive it home to the port . This is one of the things I want to talk to dh about . He could have driven Alan home !!!!


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[JezMez]

who is dh?

 

[John Barnes]

who is dh?

Dk sorry spell check lol


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[John Barnes]

who is dh?

Preacher kicked the crap out of darko at the funeral so I didn’t get much of a chance to talk to him about there movement that weekend . There are things that don’t add up in Darkos statements as it has changed over time . From what he did get to tell me before preacher lost it was they were in the port the night before .


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[JezMez]

The e-book says they went to the Old Lion Hotel in North Adelaide.

One of the problems with the e-book is that it's hard to tell which bits are fact and which are theory. One thing is for sure though - they had access to some good documentation. Court documents and case files etc.

I can't see them having this part wrong.

 

[Dell43]

One of the things that get me is you have 48 hrs after a defect to drive your car unless it is dangerous to drive and would not have let him drive it home to the port . This is one of the things I want to talk to dh about . He could have driven Alan home !!!!


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The law that allows cars to be driven up to 48 hours after being defected is that the current law or law back in 1979?

 

[Dell43]

Preacher kicked the crap out of darko at the funeral so I didn’t get much of a chance to talk to him about there movement that weekend . There are things that don’t add up in Darkos statements as it has changed over time . From what he did get to tell me before preacher lost it was they were in the port the night before .


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Why did Preacher assault DK at the funeral?

 

[John Barnes]

Why did Preacher assault DK at the funeral?

Tho darko started out as preachers mate he didn’t like him because he would pop over on there dole day , ask if they wanted to go out then ask for petrol money . Preacher thinks dk knows more then he said and so do I also Alan and preacher had a rule about hich hike together or not at all . Darko leaving Alan was not on as far as preacher was concerned and blamed darko and himself for not being there . Darko said Alan told him to go home but that went against the rules they followed and dose not fit . The year before Alan died we walked from Salisbury to west lakes and hiked it the 3 of us . I was 12 and both said to me together or not at all and even tho we didn’t get a lift it was ok we just walked it .


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[JezMez]

Where was Alan held for 5 days?


Was Thora away for a week?
One of the units that this group rented to take victims to?
SGW's basement?
MGL's basement?
Prince St?



Who had access to him?

BVE
Mr B
Mr R
DSD?
RDB?
DJS?
MGL?
The TG's?


Consider this: Trevor Peters' says he was in DSD's salon when BVE came in and showed him the photos. One of the photos was of Alan in the car in a compromising position. It's a reasonable theory that;

BVE and Mr B pick up Alan. They knock him out with a mickey and then BVE calls Mr R. They meet at #1 beat so Mr R can inspect the "merchandise". They go somewhere else because it's still light. Maybe in the hills. BVE takes some Polaroids. BVE then puts Alan in the boot and drives to Hazlewood Park. It's after hours but not dark yet (VBVE needs nightfall to move Alan from car in the unit). BVE shows DSD the photos. Trevor gets a a sneaky eyeful. BVE leaves and meets DSD at their shared unti to take Alan inside under darkness.

SGW gets a call, as he's not only mates with BVE and Mr R, but he's an expert at administering doses of Noctec and Rohypnol. Who knows who else "dropped" by over the 5 days.

To keep him for 5 days suggests some pre-emptive planning.


Does keeping him for 5 days suggest some planning?


Did the planning of Neil Muir emanate from this?

 

[Dell43]

What do we know about the white Holden Alan was see getting into. Do we know if BVE or any of his crew owned a white Holden? JezMez any discussion in the eBook? Charlie was it discussed at Inquest?

 

[JezMez]

From memory there's talk of a white Holden HR sedan as well as a yellow Valiant.

 

[John Barnes]

Where was Alan held for 5 days?


Was Thora away for a week?
One of the units that this group rented to take victims to?
SGW's basement?
MGL's basement?
Prince St?



Who had access to him?

BVE
Mr B
Mr R
DSD?
RDB?
DJS?
MGL?
The TG's?


Consider this: Trevor Peters' says he was in DSD's salon when BVE came in and showed him the photos. One of the photos was of Alan in the car in a compromising position. It's a reasonable theory that;

BVE and Mr B pick up Alan. They knock him out with a mickey and then BVE calls Mr R. They meet at #1 beat so Mr R can inspect the "merchandise". They go somewhere else because it's still light. Maybe in the hills. BVE takes some Polaroids. BVE then puts Alan in the boot and drives to Hazlewood Park. It's after hours but not dark yet (VBVE needs nightfall to move Alan from car in the unit). BVE shows DSD the photos. Trevor gets a a sneaky eyeful. BVE leaves and meets DSD at their shared unti to take Alan inside under darkness.

SGW gets a call, as he's not only mates with BVE and Mr R, but he's an expert at administering doses of Noctec and Rohypnol. Who knows who else "dropped" by over the 5 days.

To keep him for 5 days suggests some pre-emptive planning.


Does keeping him for 5 days suggest some planning?


Did the planning of Neil Muir emanate from this?

Ok let’s go by what b said :
Alan was pick up by the parklands hiking on the Friday 5 days after he was going home on grand junction road . Bve and b pick him up then drugged him and by the time they reach grand junction Alan was out cold . They meet up with dr at jolly’s boat house and b leaves .
The problem with this story is it dose not fit and of the evidence and the autopsy as it said that there was bruising that had healed from rapping and same of the bruising on his arms and legs had healed and more bruising on top of that meaning he was repetitively tied up or held down .
So going by b Alan was killed the night they picked him up and that dose not fit .
Place said he meet Alan in town with bve and others . His story is full of crap as when b was asked if Alan knew bve when hoping into the car he said no . Under cross gp story fell apart and did not hold up at all and dose not fit .
Bs first statement to the cops is far from his last .
First statement is they picked Alan up on grand junction road just after the overpass near port rd end . They drugged him and bve and him took Alan passed out too jolly’s boat house meet up with dr and left them on the Sunday . He told his sister that he was there when they killed him and helped dump his body. So b has had lots of stories and you have to try to put it all together .
What I think happened!!!!
B and bve were at the port house on Saturday night with a kid or young man they had just rapped . On the Sunday afternoon they drive down grand junction road and see Alan and pick him up . They dope Alan and he is out of it by grand junction and go to town not Salisbury . NM is with them in the car and meet up with dr at jolly’s boat house . They all go to same were and rape Alan in the car and bve takes photos of them doing thing to him . They take him to a safe house were they have taken boys they have done this too before . Same others are contacted and join in on there fun . It is dark by 530 pm in June so they have no problems moving him out of they car and no one seeing . They keep him drugged up and move him at night around for the 5 days . They can’t let him go as when Alan comes too he points out bve . Bve gets mad and starts going nuts on his sadistic torture and kills him . At the time I don’t think he meant to kill him that way but he was going to kill Alan anyway . B and dr with NM were there when this happened and helped wash Alan and dress him then dumped him . Were they kept Alan over the 5 days is hard to know as there are a lot of places they could have and the same with the rest of the boys .
Keeping a boy more then a night went against there normal MO so why did they this time ? Alan pointed out bve !!!!
Killing in the manner they did was by accident but after that they had a way of killing that they liked being the sadistic it’s they are .
This is a thrill killing as I think they pushed each other to do more and more sadistic things .
After Alan’s killing same of the boys they took said that they were tortured yet before the boys who came forward said that they were just r*ped .
As for were they got there hands on Alan there could be more as dks stories don’t stand up too . Could darko have set up Alan ? Yes he could have and that is why I want to have a little chat my way with him . This part of it is were things get shady as darko is same one who I don’t trust is telling the truth .
Alan and preacher hiked it a lot but never alone so why did darko leave Alan . He said Alan told him to go back home yet that dose not fit what he would do . It is a little out of the norm but preacher was not with Alan that day so it could have happened as darko said .




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[John Barnes]

From memory there's talk of a white Holden HR sedan as well as a yellow Valiant.

They said it was a white Holden and could have been a hr or ht . Bve had a white Holden at the time


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[Dell43]

Ok let’s go by what b said :
Alan was pick up by the parklands hiking on the Friday 5 days after he was going home on grand junction road . Bve and b pick him up then drugged him and by the time they reach grand junction Alan was out cold . They meet up with dr at jolly’s boat house and b leaves .
The problem with this story is it dose not fit and of the evidence and the autopsy as it said that there was bruising that had healed from rapping and same of the bruising on his arms and legs had healed and more bruising on top of that meaning he was repetitively tied up or held down .
So going by b Alan was killed the night they picked him up and that dose not fit .
Place said he meet Alan in town with bve and others . His story is full of crap as when b was asked if Alan knew bve when hoping into the car he said no . Under cross gp story fell apart and did not hold up at all and dose not fit .
Bs first statement to the cops is far from his last .
First statement is they picked Alan up on grand junction road just after the overpass near port rd end . They drugged him and bve and him took Alan passed out too jolly’s boat house meet up with dr and left them on the Sunday . He told his sister that he was there when they killed him and helped dump his body. So b has had lots of stories and you have to try to put it all together .
What I think happened!!!!
B and bve were at the port house on Saturday night with a kid or young man they had just rapped . On the Sunday afternoon they drive down grand junction road and see Alan and pick him up . They dope Alan and he is out of it by grand junction and go to town not Salisbury . NM is with them in the car and meet up with dr at jolly’s boat house . They all go to same were and rape Alan in the car and bve takes photos of them doing thing to him . They take him to a safe house were they have taken boys they have done this too before . Same others are contacted and join in on there fun . It is dark by 530 pm in June so they have no problems moving him out of they car and no one seeing . They keep him drugged up and move him at night around for the 5 days . They can’t let him go as when Alan comes too he points out bve . Bve gets mad and starts going nuts on his sadistic torture and kills him . At the time I don’t think he meant to kill him that way but he was going to kill Alan anyway . B and dr with NM were there when this happened and helped wash Alan and dress him then dumped him . Were they kept Alan over the 5 days is hard to know as there are a lot of places they could have and the same with the rest of the boys .
Keeping a boy more then a night went against there normal MO so why did they this time ? Alan pointed out bve !!!!
Killing in the manner they did was by accident but after that they had a way of killing that they liked being the sadistic it’s they are .
This is a thrill killing as I think they pushed each other to do more and more sadistic things .
After Alan’s killing same of the boys they took said that they were tortured yet before the boys who came forward said that they were just r*ped .
As for were they got there hands on Alan there could be more as dks stories don’t stand up too . Could darko have set up Alan ? Yes he could have and that is why I want to have a little chat my way with him . This part of it is were things get shady as darko is same one who I don’t trust is telling the truth .
Alan and preacher hiked it a lot but never alone so why did darko leave Alan . He said Alan told him to go back home yet that dose not fit what he would do . It is a little out of the norm but preacher was not with Alan that day so it could have happened as darko said .




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I agree with a lot of what you have said Charlie. I think BVE picked up Alan by chance rather than him being setup. However, like you there are some questions I would like to put to DK!

I think BVE was at PF house on Sunday and drove home via Grand Junction Rd (GJR). From PF house to GJR is about 2km and it’s a simple logical route to take, I drove it on Friday (see attached image). BVE would turn right onto GJR as this is quickest route for him to return home or check his beat between Scotty’s Corner to Parliament house. If Alan started hitchhiking from Allenby Road, then BVE had to drive past him at some stage.

I Don’t think Alan was set up by DK for the following reasons;

- Alan and DK were friends, you wouldn’t set up a friend with someone like BVE.
- DK had been to the Barnes family home on several occasions and most probably developed some sort of relationship with Alan’s family.
- Alan was invited to spend the weekend at DK family home. A setup may indirectly draw his family into any investigation.
- DK attended Alan’s funeral.
-I’m assuming DK was planning to drive Alan home on Sunday, but his car got defected. Therefore, it was a last-minute decision for Alan to hitchhike rather than a planned event.
- From Allenby Rd. to Production Rd. (where Alan was seen getting into the car) is about 2km which would take about 25 minutes to walk. If it was a setup it allows too much time for someone else to pick him up or Alan to change his route.
- There is no evidence that I’m aware of that DK knew BVE.

 

[Kurve]

The problem with this story is it dose not fit and of the evidence and the autopsy as it said that there was bruising that had healed from rapping and same of the bruising on his arms and legs had healed and more bruising on top of that meaning he was repetitively tied up or held down .
So going by b Alan was killed the night they picked him up and that dose not fit .

Are you aware that neither Ross or Manock who were involved in interpreting the bruising in this series of murders, had any formal training in histapathology? Essentially, they weren't qualified on the study of tissue damage.

So as an exercise, what if we took their bruising analysis / interpretation right out for a minute? Ignore it for a moment. How does it now fit, what would it look like?

 

[John Barnes]

I agree with a lot of what you have said Charlie. I think BVE picked up Alan by chance rather than him being setup. However, like you there are some questions I would like to put to DK!

I think BVE was at PF house on Sunday and drove home via Grand Junction Rd (GJR). From PF house to GJR is about 2km and it’s a simple logical route to take, I drove it on Friday (see attached image). BVE would turn right onto GJR as this is quickest route for him to return home or check his beat between Scotty’s Corner to Parliament house. If Alan started hitchhiking from Allenby Road, then BVE had to drive past him at some stage.

I Don’t think Alan was set up by DK for the following reasons;

- Alan and DK were friends, you wouldn’t set up a friend with someone like BVE.
- DK had been to the Barnes family home on several occasions and most probably developed some sort of relationship with Alan’s family.
- Alan was invited to spend the weekend at DK family home. A setup may indirectly draw his family into any investigation.
- DK attended Alan’s funeral.
-I’m assuming DK was planning to drive Alan home on Sunday, but his car got defected. Therefore, it was a last-minute decision for Alan to hitchhike rather than a planned event.
- From Allenby Rd. to Production Rd. (where Alan was seen getting into the car) is about 2km which would take about 25 minutes to walk. If it was a setup it allows too much time for someone else to pick him up or Alan to change his route.
- There is no evidence that I’m aware of that DK knew BVE.
View attachment 1053377

It’s more like a 10 min walk but yes the only thing that gets me thinking is why did darko leave Alan . Alan was not one to hike by himself and we did have it a a rule not too . Darko said Alan told him to go now that part I don’t believe I think Darko just said I am going back home . I think that’s why preacher slapped Darko around not that Alan got killed but more that he left Alan to hike home by himself .


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[John Barnes]

Are you aware that neither Ross or Manock who were involved in interpreting the bruising in this series of murders, had any formal training in histapathology? Essentially, they weren't qualified on the study of tissue damage.

So as an exercise, what if we took their bruising analysis / interpretation right out for a minute? Ignore it for a moment. How does it now fit, what would it look like?

It still dose not stand up that Alan was taken the night he was killed . Bs first statement and what he told his sister said they had Alan from grand junction road not the park lands . He changed it to take himself out of the holding as that is kidnapping . B was protecting himself from prosecution by changing his statements. What I think is his first statement to his sister is more the truth about it


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[JezMez]

Ok let’s go by what b said :
Alan was pick up by the parklands hiking on the Friday 5 days after he was going home on grand junction road .

The problem with this story is it dose not fit and of the evidence and the autopsy as it said that there was bruising that had healed from rapping and same of the bruising on his arms and legs had healed and more bruising on top of that meaning he was repetitively tied up or held down .
So going by b Alan was killed the night they picked him up and that dose not fit .

Clearly Mr B was lying. He also lied about the location and time of day.

Alan disappeared on Sun 17th June in the mid afternoon on Grand Junction Rd
Mr B said he and BVE picked him up on Fri 22 June at night time on Main North Rd in the Parklands.

The date, time of day, and location don't match.

I wonder how heavily police challenged this? They went to a committal hearing with a witness with massive holes in his story. What did they think was going to happen?

B and bve were at the port house on Saturday night with a kid or young man they had just rapped . On the Sunday afternoon they drive down grand junction road and see Alan and pick him up . They dope Alan and he is out of it by grand junction and go to town not Salisbury . NM is with them in the car and meet up with dr at jolly’s boat house . They all go to same were and rape Alan in the car and bve takes photos of them doing thing to him . They take him to a safe house were they have taken boys they have done this too before . Same others are contacted and join in on there fun . It is dark by 530 pm in June so they have no problems moving him out of they car and no one seeing . They keep him drugged up and move him at night around for the 5 days . They can’t let him go as when Alan comes too he points out bve . Bve gets mad and starts going nuts on his sadistic torture and kills him . At the time I don’t think he meant to kill him that way but he was going to kill Alan anyway . B and dr with NM were there when this happened and helped wash Alan and dress him then dumped him . Were they kept Alan over the 5 days is hard to know as there are a lot of places they could have and the same with the rest of the boys .
Keeping a boy more then a night went against there normal MO so why did they this time ? Alan pointed out bve !!!!
Killing in the manner they did was by accident but after that they had a way of killing that they liked being the sadistic it’s they are .
This is a thrill killing as I think they pushed each other to do more and more sadistic things .
After Alan’s killing same of the boys they took said that they were tortured yet before the boys who came forward said that they were just r*ped .
As for were they got there hands on Alan there could be more as dks stories don’t stand up too . Could darko have set up Alan ? Yes he could have and that is why I want to have a little chat my way with him . This part of it is were things get shady as darko is same one who I don’t trust is telling the truth .
Alan and preacher hiked it a lot but never alone so why did darko leave Alan . He said Alan told him to go back home yet that dose not fit what he would do . It is a little out of the norm but preacher was not with Alan that day so it could have happened as darko said .

I think it is unlikely Muir was there.

• The theory that Neil was killed to either keep him quiet, or punish him for perceivably talking makes sense in itself. But then you have to explain a way how BVE thought he was a risk or had talked. Placing him in the car with Alan fits. But now there's two things that have to fit and the odds drift - further out than the odds of Neil being in the wrong place at the wrong time and SGW wanting to do some surgery.
• If BVE was at the TG house all Saturday night, how did Muir fit in? We know he was friends with Novak, but did he frequent the TG house? Probably not.
• If Muir was there, why didn't Mr B mention it?

There's more likely options as to why Muir was killed and why he was cut up.


On why they killed Alan - this is complicated;

• I don't think it was an accident, and if it was, they still would have had to kill him. He was kept for 5 days. At some point BVE would have come to the conclusion that he couldn't just drop him off with a fiver and say, "run along now". Nor could he realistically claim it was free will and consensual.
• 
  
• The big question is, did they know each other? How reliable is the info that Alan delivered soft drink to Pipeline Supplies? What reason has Gary Wayne place to insert himself into the investigation (lol, on these type of threads we see people do this all the time).
• 
  
• Potentially one thing led to another - BVE picks him, recognises him, likes the look of him and doesn't want to pass it up, drugs him, they do their thing and now he has to make a decision - if I let him know he probably recognises me. He rations that he has to kill him so he may as well keep for a few more days. "Hey Steve, do you think we can safely knock him out until 5 pm tomorrow?".

Then there's the issue of Darko.

• He was known to procure boys for Gambra and Derrance
• Gary Wayne Place (who we can't trust) says he saw Alan with BVE and Woodards in the weeks leading up
• So a known procurer was the last person seen with Alan before he's abducted and murdered by a man known to use procurers
• On the other hand, Alan was hitchhiking and BVE trawled the streets looking for hitchhikers to pick up.

 

[JezMez]

Are you aware that neither Ross or Manock who were involved in interpreting the bruising in this series of murders, had any formal training in histapathology? Essentially, they weren't qualified on the study of tissue damage.

So as an exercise, what if we took their bruising analysis / interpretation right out for a minute? Ignore it for a moment. How does it now fit, what would it look like?

It looks the same.

Mr B: BVE and I picked up Alan on Friday 22 June, at night time, on Main North Rd in the Parklands.

** It's an assumption that the Friday Mr B claimed was the 22nd (It could have been the 15th)

Autopsy: Alan died on Friday 22nd


If we ignore the bruising evidence (Manock had a track record of gross incompetence), for Mr B's story to be true, it means Alan was hitchhiking home and then decided to go somewhere else for 5 days and not tell anyone, nor be witnessed by any other person.


Alan was abducted on the Sunday. Lock it in Eddie.

 

[Kurve]

Clearly Mr B was lying. He also lied about the location and time of day.

Alan disappeared on Sun 17th June in the mid afternoon on Grand Junction Rd
Mr B said he and BVE picked him up on Fri 22 June at night time on Main North Rd in the Parklands.

The date, time of day, and location don't match.

I wonder how heavily police challenged this? They went to a committal hearing with a witness with massive holes in his story. What did they think was going to happen?

How was this to be explained? Two witnesses who saw Alan on the 20th.

Which story would a prosecution go with?

Another witness, Fehim Hodzic, who had first met Barnes the day
before,
gave evidence at the preliminary examination that he saw Barnes
between 2.00 pm and 4.00 pm on 17th June, on the northern footpath
of Grand
Junction Road. He then observed Barnes run along the footpath towards a white
Holden H.Q. sedan which had stopped by the
side of the road. The rear
passenger side door of the vehicle opened but by this time the witness had
driven past the vehicle and
he could not say whether Barnes entered it. On
Wednesday 20th June, Barnes was seen at the Elizabeth Shopping Centre by two
young
people who knew him. His body was found on Sunday 24th June. It had
been dumped under the South Para Bridge a short distance south
of
Williamstown.

 

[John Barnes]

How was this to be explained? Two witnesses who saw Alan on the 20th.

Which story would a prosecution go with?

Another witness, Fehim Hodzic, who had first met Barnes the day
before,
gave evidence at the preliminary examination that he saw Barnes
between 2.00 pm and 4.00 pm on 17th June, on the northern footpath
of Grand
Junction Road. He then observed Barnes run along the footpath towards a white
Holden H.Q. sedan which had stopped by the
side of the road. The rear
passenger side door of the vehicle opened but by this time the witness had
driven past the vehicle and
he could not say whether Barnes entered it. On
Wednesday 20th June, Barnes was seen at the Elizabeth Shopping Centre by two
young
people who knew him. His body was found on Sunday 24th June. It had
been dumped under the South Para Bridge a short distance south
of
Williamstown.

The Elizabeth shopping centre is a hoax . The cops have been over this a number of times and the people who said they seen him were unsure of the day and if it was the week before he disappeared . Alan the weekend he disappeared had preacher jacket on and they said Alan was in his jacket . One was blue the other brown .


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[JezMez]

If Alan was detained at PF house it would be interesting to question LT.

It was Lewis' house as well. The house was shared by Pru, Lewis, and Kerry.

If you read the diaries, the inference is that Trevor was getting most of his info from Pru, and in turn Pru was saying stuff like, "Sarah knows more than she's letting on". Pru may have been playing Trevor, but if she was trying to divert blame, why speak at all? As far as I can tell, Pru is a fair bit higher up on the police radar pecking order than Sarah, but Trevor's diaries suggest Sarah was more involved. Also consider Muir was seen hanging out with his old buddy Sarah a fair bit in the weeks before his murder.

 

[Kurve]

Theory.

Neil Muir's taken on a Monday. BVE has to go to work the following morning so he leaves him with say, Sarah and she seizes the opportunity to do some of her own experiments in the area that interests her and he dies on her watch. Maybe he's already dead but Charlie says Muir was alive through most of it. BVE might not be happy with this. She's made a right mess of it, she panics and has to get rid of him herself but he's too big for her to handle on her own so she cuts him down to a carrying weight of 25kg.

Sarah who, according to the ebook was formerly Steve and 15yo in 1972 so that would make her only about 22yo in 1979 when Muir was murdered.

 

[Kurve]

She's made a right mess of it, she panics and has to get rid of him herself but he's too big for her to handle on her own so she cuts him down to a carrying weight of 25kg.

If we accepted Muir being cut down had something to do with managing his dead weight, we might also be able to look at where he died as being closer to where he was dumped. Real close would be my guess. And h/she also dropped the bags near some pines at some point.

Anybody else notice, ironically that one of Muir's first jobs was in a meat processing plant?

 

[Bits]

Theory.

Neil Muir's taken on a Monday. BVE has to go to work the following morning so he leaves him with say, Sarah and she seizes the opportunity to do some of her own experiments in the area that interests her and he dies on her watch. Maybe he's already dead but Charlie says Muir was alive through most of it. BVE might not be happy with this. She's made a right mess of it, she panics and has to get rid of him herself but he's too big for her to handle on her own so she cuts him down to a carrying weight of 25kg.

Sarah who, according to the ebook was formerly Steve and 15yo in 1972 so that would make her only about 22yo in 1979 when Muir was murdered.

Yeah, that’s a veeery long bow to draw. Firstly, Novak & Muir were friends for years. Abusing strangers is one thing, but chopping up your friend that horrifically? Secondly, there has never been any indication that Novak had any sort of surgical skill, and all the evidence is that someone involved knew exactly what they were doing.

And why did he have to be cut down closer to where he was found? Once he was at 25kg and wrapped up, that’s manageable for two people. One at a pinch. Into a car boot at one end, driven to the river, dumped. The distance between going into the boot and being taken out again is irrelevant. You’d still have to put them in there and take them out again no matter how far you travelled. Or are you suggesting that someone carried the body from where he was killed, through the streets, to the river?

Re the pine needles - where does it say exactly where they were found? If they were transferred by someone “dropping the bags” then they would be on the outside of the bags - and therefore washed away in the river. If they were on the inside, then how did they get there by dropping the bags?