Unsolved The Family Murders

[Kurve]

The Who's Who List

• #2,647

VICTIMS
AB - Alan Barnes 16yo
NM - Neil Muir 25yo
PS - Peter Stogneff 14yo
ML - Mark Langley 18yo
RK- Richard Kelvin 15yo

• DS - Derrance Stevenson high risk lifestyle pornographer and criminal lawyer shot to death
• DS - David Szach convicted for the murder of criminal lawyer Derrence Stevenson

DECEASED
DSD - Denis St Denis hairdresser
RBD - Richard Dutton Brown the magistrate
PF - Pru Firman
SN - Sarah Novak
BG - Brian Gant
NB - Noel Brook also known as Di Di
TP - Trevor Peters of the diaries
PM - Dr. Peter Leslie Millhouse acquitted for the murder of Neil Muir

LIVING until further notice
BVE - Bevan von Einem also known as 'Bevbang' to inner circle and 'Vonnie' in the prison system
Mr R - The businessman name suppressed
SGW - Dr Stephen George Woodards
Mr. B - Teenage prostitute and informant name suppressed
JL - Jacquie the nurse mentioned in the ebook as a good friend of and who rented a unit close to BVEs unit we assume name suppressed?
LT - Lewis Turtur also known as 'Louie'
A - The older teenage boy Peter Stogneff's parents feel may have had something to do with their son's abduction
RR - Raymond Rozankowski who was a friend of BVE and lived in the same street as A

DK - Darko Kastellan assistant to Gambardella
GG - Gino Gambardella chiropractor fled to Italy

Out of Sight - The Untold Story of Adelaide's Gay Hate Murders

The Cases of Forensic Pathologist Colin Manock

Use this thread below to lodge media, maps and photos for quick reference.

Unsolved - The Family Murders - MEDIA

This thread may be used to post the Family Murders media related content. To include press and gathered photographs from various sources. Please feel free to post but as this is a no discussion thread, comments will be deleted or moved at discretion. WHO'S WHO VICTIMS AB - Alan Barnes 16yo...

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[John Barnes]

Are you sure?

I've never read the Millhouse case so wouldn't know, but this surprises me a lot.

Have you read the actual case, or are you getting confused with some people Millhouse paid for sex using drugs?


But some of the things you claim are inaccurate. You've got an opinion and you've got a habit of fitting the evidence to it.

You claim police had all this evidence earlier than they did. They had one seemingly unreliable guy tell them BVE r*ped a heap of dudes.
You said BVE, Mr R, and Mr B met to discuss who was talking to police because this fit your theory that Muir was killed as punishment. In reality, Mr B claimed he met with BVE and BVE said that Mr R was worried that Mr B would talk. There was nothing about BVE getting word that someone had talked.


You're talking about Mr R, right? Because "dr" could mean Dr Woodards, Dr Millhouse, Dr K etc

This is news to me that Mr R is a witness for the DPP? When did this happen?

I think everyone agrees that the chance of any more convictions is remote. But that doesn't mean it's solved. There's four family with justice nor answers. I don't need to tell you that because you're one of them.

Who was in the car that picked up Alan?
Where did they hold him for 5 days?
Who else visited him in those 5 days?
Who was present when he was murdered.

The Family Murders is not solved Charlie. Police reinvestigated in 1990 and then again in 2008. They know it's not properly solved. They have a $1m reward saying it's not solved.

As you said - the cold hard truth is they're unlikely to be able to get proof.

So you know about the meeting in Rundle mull ? So why would this be the first time you have said so ? I was there at the committal hearing and Nigel hunt conformed what was said . I don’t try to fit anything it’s the way all that I have seen and heard (the evidence) that has taken me there . Regardless of any reward the real truth is the cops stuffed this up from the start and it will be just a unsolved murder cases. There for to me it has run its course and will never go any further then this , people talking about it . It’s as solved as it is going to get and us the families left behind have came to that reality as I do talk to other victims families about this . We all know who and what the were is something I would personally like to know . You know who I am talking about when I post dr because I put doctor when talking about the other thing involved so don’t play coy . The 1990 trial was it and that is were they had a chance but it was not b evidence that cost the case it was similar fact evidence not being aloud that cost the case . MS was good and she took down GP very quickly and then when after b but when all the similar fact evidence was removed that was the end of it again I was there . I would never put anything on one of the victims of this and would not have gone down the track I have if b didn’t say about the meeting in Rundle mull and what was said . That is the only reason I have said a thing about nm and is the reason behind my theory and putting nm there . B said there was 4 people there him , dr , bve and one other . Did not say nm but it seem to point that way . Bve said someone talked to the cops . Bs words on the stand . I did not think anything about nm even then but more things came to light . Nm was getting paid to have sex with bve and were often seen together well before he was killed including driving around together often . B being the little worm he is would have pointed the finger at anyone besides himself so that dose follow what I have said . Not one thing you have said has disprove what I have came up with ! Nothing!!! Prove me wrong as it will be good for me to learn more then I know now .


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[John Barnes]

I've only read about Mr R making one statement to police (which surprised me). He talked about BVE using his choke and undoing his exhaust as a ruse to pick up youths, and he also said he het BVE at Marden shopping centre and BVE had an unconscious guy in the car. Police then asked if it was Langley.

I was surprised he even said anything to police other than "no comment". I didn't get the impression these were witness statements for the DPP though.

I told you he was being protected by the cops and dpp


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[Kurve]

I told you he was being protected by the cops and dpp


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Okay, it looks like Mr. R. might have been prepared to throw BVE right under a bus but on the little that's been suggested was on ONE? of his statements it would go to similar fact evidence. You're saying that wasn't even presented at committal.

Was it a full committtal or did it only run so far as a ruling on similar fact and it all suddenly fell down?

 

[fortunatecrow]

Looking at it from a distance I have wondered if the police did immunity deals with the wrong people...thought that one or more key players were only fringe....did a deal that gives them immunity for everything except murder. Only later do they work out that Mr Immunity is a key player who can now own up to being present at the scene and get off scot-free as long as he denies involvement in the actual murder. And of course the Police then cover-up that monumental stuff up

 

[John Barnes]

Okay, it looks like Mr. R. might have been prepared to throw BVE right under a bus but on the little that's been suggested was on ONE of his statements it would go to similar fact evidence. You're saying that wasn't even presented at committal.

Was it a full committtal or did it only run so far as a ruling on similar fact and it all suddenly fell down?

It was a full committal hearing and not once did dr take the stand nor did his statements ever get taken into evidence . Dr would have known what he gave them would have fallen into similar fact evidence and be dismissed . MS would have told him this .


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[Bits]

Charlie, is MS the solicitor Marie Shaw?

 

[JezMez]

So you know about the meeting in Rundle mull ? So why would this be the first time you have said so ?

You said they met because BVE had been told there was a leak. This is not what happened. I strongly suspect you read it in the e-book.

Regardless of any reward the real truth is the cops stuffed this up from the start and it will be just a unsolved murder cases.

I don't think anyone disagrees with this in principle, just the finer print as to what they could have reasonably done.

There for to me it has run its course and will never go any further then this , people talking about it . It’s as solved as it is going to get and us the families left behind have came to that reality as I do talk to other victims families about this . We all know who and what the were is something I would personally like to know .

I think everyone is on that page too. It's a fascinating case. How a network of 25 or so people got involved in rape and murder and kept quiet about it is beyond most people.

When this thread started, there were a handful of clues to the identities of The Family. There was nothing on the internet except "ahh, yerr, it was all politicians and rich people and the top end of town and they covered it up". That was the wide perception. If you trawl the internet now, those names are out there. Most of it comes from this thread.

There are other names not yet mentioned that will come out soon. There is still info to be uncovered.

You know who I am talking about when I post dr because I put doctor when talking about the other thing involved so don’t play coy . The 1990 trial was it and that is were they had a chance but it was not b evidence that cost the case it was similar fact evidence not being aloud that cost the case .

I'm not playing. And now I'm even more confused.

Serious - who is dr? Ok, I read below so we are talking Mr R.

The propensity evidence was ruled inadmissible. And Mr B's credibility was a massive concern.

B said there was 4 people there him , dr , bve and one other . Did not say nm but it seem to point that way .

I've read it. He only mentions Mr R.

Bve said someone talked to the cops . Bs words on the stand .

The e-book never mentioned that bit.

I did not think anything about nm even then but more things came to light . Nm was getting paid to have sex with bve and were often seen together well before he was killed including driving around together often . B being the little worm he is would have pointed the finger at anyone besides himself so that dose follow what I have said . Not one thing you have said has disprove what I have came up with ! Nothing!!! Prove me wrong as it will be good for me to learn more then I know now .

I'm not necessarily trying to prove you wrong, but it's really important that integrity of information is maintained. There's a number of things you have said that are incorrect (Mr B's name, Mr B's mortality status, the Alberton house address, Alan being redressed in Mr B's clothing to name a few). It's no so much that they're incorrect (if Nemesis never got Mr B's name wrong, we never would have found him at all), it's that you're acting as an authority and passing guesswork and leaps of faith off as fact.

So, about Mr R being a DPP witness. What's that all about?
And what's that stuff about rapes being brought up in Millhouses' trial?

 

[JezMez]

It was a full committal hearing and not once did dr take the stand nor did his statements ever get taken into evidence . Dr would have known what he gave them would have fallen into similar fact evidence and be dismissed . MS would have told him this .

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This the case against BVE re Barnes and Langley
Similar fact = rapes. Mr B testified. Turtur testified (he saw BVE shining a torch up someone's arse). A few female colleagues testified.

Mr R said to police he saw BVE with unconscious victim, and told police of some of BVE's pickup ploys.

But what if he indicated he didn't want to testify? Why would the prosecution risk putting him on the stand?


I'm not understanding the problem. What am I missing Charlie?

 

[JezMez]

Looking at it from a distance I have wondered if the police did immunity deals with the wrong people...thought that one or more key players were only fringe....did a deal that gives them immunity for everything except murder. Only later do they work out that Mr Immunity is a key player who can now own up to being present at the scene and get off scot-free as long as he denies involvement in the actual murder. And of course the Police then cover-up that monumental stuff up

I think they always suspected Mr B was there. But they just wanted to get the info, then worry about catching Mr B out.

I think their biggest error was not applying immense pressure to everyone in BVE's network. Arrests, searches, threats etc until people shit themselves and gave up a little bit of info. Then use that info to apply pressure to someone else.

 

[John Barnes]

You said they met because BVE had been told there was a leak. This is not what happened. I strongly suspect you read it in the e-book.

I don't think anyone disagrees with this in principle, just the finer print as to what they could have reasonably done.



I think everyone is on that page too. It's a fascinating case. How a network of 25 or so people got involved in rape and murder and kept quiet about it is beyond most people.

When this thread started, there were a handful of clues to the identities of The Family. There was nothing on the internet except "ahh, yerr, it was all politicians and rich people and the top end of town and they covered it up". That was the wide perception. If you trawl the internet now, those names are out there. Most of it comes from this thread.

There are other names not yet mentioned that will come out soon. There is still info to be uncovered.


I'm not playing. And now I'm even more confused.

Serious - who is dr? Ok, I read below so we are talking Mr R.

The propensity evidence was ruled inadmissible. And Mr B's credibility was a massive concern.


I've read it. He only mentions Mr R.


The e-book never mentioned that bit.


I'm not necessarily trying to prove you wrong, but it's really important that integrity of information is maintained. There's a number of things you have said that are incorrect (Mr B's name, Mr B's mortality status, the Alberton house address, Alan being redressed in Mr B's clothing to name a few). It's no so much that they're incorrect (if Nemesis never got Mr B's name wrong, we never would have found him at all), it's that you're acting as an authority and passing guesswork and leaps of faith off as fact.

So, about Mr R being a DPP witness. What's that all about?
And what's that stuff about rapes being brought up in Millhouses' trial?

1 I have not read the ebook .
2 I said i was told it was 25 and that’s what I was told never once did I say I know I said I think .
3 b is dead and if you can prove different please do so .
4 b was about the same size as Alan and I said I believe it was b close . They were not Alan’s
5 the evidence on millhouse was him drugging young men for sex .
6 two paragraphs ago you said the cops wouldn’t be protecting dr and I was wrong . Now you know they are protecting him as a witness. I stated “ you can not even talk to him about the case “ . Now you yourself have proven me right .
7 you could not have read the committal hearing report and the evidence b gave on the stand as there is no record taking in a committal . So where did you read it ? In the ebook ? If so where did they get it ?
Trying to put thing together for themselves.
To make sure I was right about the Rundle mull meeting in rang Nigel hunt and he remembered it as well . He said he was going to go and look at his notes to confirm it but has not got back to me . Note Nigel is going though a hard time and I don’t want to push him .



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[JezMez]

1 I have not read the ebook .
2 I said i was told it was 25 and that’s what I was told never once did I say I know I said I think .
3 b is dead and if you can prove different please do so .
4 b was about the same size as Alan and I said I believe it was b close . They were not Alan’s
5 the evidence on millhouse was him drugging young men for sex .
6 two paragraphs ago you said the cops wouldn’t be protecting dr and I was wrong . Now you know they are protecting him as a witness. I stated “ you can not even talk to him about the case “ . Now you yourself have proven me right .
7 you could not have read the committal hearing report and the evidence b gave on the stand as there is no record taking in a committal . So where did you read it ? In the ebook ? If so where did they get it ?
Trying to put thing together for themselves.
To make sure I was right about the Rundle mull meeting in rang Nigel hunt and he remembered it as well . He said he was going to go and look at his notes to confirm it but has not got back to me . Note Nigel is going though a hard time and I don’t want to push him .



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2. I'm saying it's 25 (or thereabouts). I'm not claiming that you're saying it.
3. Really? You're tripling down on this one? Only one of us doesn't have a track record of making stuff up.
4. Doubling down? Alan was found in the same clothes he was wearing a week earlier.
5. In other words - they had no evidence or knowledge of BVE's rapes
6. No idea what you are talking about.
7. Have you not twigged that over the years there's a heap of info about this case that comes into this thread and that I'm one of the main sources? Go ask Kurve if she thinks whether I have this or not.
8. All due respect, but your "say so" is not going to cut it given your track record.

 

[Kurve]

Go ask Kurve if she thinks whether I have this or not.

Huh?

I think we should be able to sort this out together actually without turning it into a dick swinging contest.

 

[JezMez]

Huh?

I think we should be able to sort this out together actually without turning it into a dick swinging contest.

Please tell Charlie, in your opinion, is it likely I have the information I say have. You know, going by past experience. You know what I'm talkin' about, Willis.

 

[Kurve]

Please tell Charlie, in your opinion, is it likely I have the information I say have. You know, going by past experience. You know what I'm talkin' about, Willis.

What are you saying you've got this time?

 

[John Barnes]

2. I'm saying it's 25 (or thereabouts). I'm not claiming that you're saying it.
3. Really? You're tripling down on this one? Only one of us doesn't have a track record of making stuff up.
4. Doubling down? Alan was found in the same clothes he was wearing a week earlier.
5. In other words - they had no evidence or knowledge of BVE's rapes
6. No idea what you are talking about.
7. Have you not twigged that over the years there's a heap of info about this case that comes into this thread and that I'm one of the main sources? Go ask Kurve if she thinks whether I have this or not.
8. All due respect, but your "say so" is not going to cut it given your track record.

Bve rape victims go back as far as 1977 but only in 1990 they came forward???
No they were not the same clothes only preachers jacket was the same .and a name bracelet. Mom rang the cops the cops didn’t ring mom and the thing that ID him was the name bracelet and jacket as the clothes were not his .
You have read the ebook well done yet you didn’t even know dr gave a statement and was a dpp witness till I told you .
You have this well done you know it all I wish you all the best with that go write a book .
Go read same of the news papers at the time the committal hearing was on and I think you will find the meeting in one of them . It was in the papers at the time .
Again not all the information out there is what really happened .
You have this yet I live it and like I said you can walk away I can’t .



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[JezMez]

Bve rape victims go back as far as 1977 but only in 1990 they came forward???

Not many dudes want to front up to the cop shop and say, "err, I got a sore ass". Lots wouldn't have reported it. The ones who did (George, the guy who said he escaped from a terrace house from Dr Steve) would have gone to different cop shops, no central database and internet to access it etc.

Same thing still happens. Marylin Manson - allegedly been abusing GF's for years, one comes out and calls him, and then everyone else is like, "Yeah, I dated that dicksnap, he gaslit me the whole time".

"Oh, snap, that serial killer with the white hair is the same dude who drugged me. Will call cops".

 

[John Barnes]

Not many dudes want to front up to the cop shop and say, "err, I got a sore ass". Lots wouldn't have reported it. The ones who did (George, the guy who said he escaped from a terrace house from Dr Steve) would have gone to different cop shops, no central database and internet to access it etc.

Same thing still happens. Marylin Manson - allegedly been abusing GF's for years, one comes out and calls him, and then everyone else is like, "Yeah, I dated that dicksnap, he gaslit me the whole time".

"Oh, snap, that serial killer with the white hair is the same dude who drugged me. Will call cops".

Bve was all over the tv and papers in 1984 but no one came forward till 1990 I don’t think so . When 60 mins gave the murders there name one of the victims from the port house was interviewed on tv . At the time they said there was a number of victims who had came forward and this is one of them . That was well before 1990 . A lot of the victims statements said the they knew what was going on but could not move siding in and out of consciousness. They knew who was doing what to them and picked out bve


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[bth18]

regarding the 60 mins episode I have emailed them about 45 times asking for it to be added to YouTube, I’ll wear them down eventually

 

[John Barnes]

regarding the 60 mins episode I have emailed them about 45 times asking for it to be added to YouTube, I’ll wear them down eventually

The reporter I can not spell her name was the one who gave the murders there name . She asked tk do you think they are a happy family he said yes . In that interview she also talked about a eastern sub business man , where do you think she got that info ? Mom told her !!!! I took her to were Alan was found with my sister Cherie.


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[John Barnes]

Charlie, is MS the solicitor Marie Shaw?

Yes


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[JezMez]

Bve was all over the tv and papers in 1984 but no one came forward till 1990 I don’t think so . When 60 mins gave the murders there name one of the victims from the port house was interviewed on tv . At the time they said there was a number of victims who had came forward and this is one of them . That was well before 1990 . A lot of the victims statements said the they knew what was going on but could not move siding in and out of consciousness. They knew who was doing what to them and picked out bve


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Seems we have some wires crossed. This is my version:

You: They knew about the rapes and did nothing and other boys got murdered

Me: They didn't know until after BVE was put away - victims didn't report it until they saw him on TV. It wasn't until 1990s they put a case together using the rape victims.


I saw the 60mins episode when it was on TV. I remember the victim saying he went to the house for a party and there were a heap of men and women there and then he passed out and some how managed to bolt.

 

[John Barnes]

Seems we have some wires crossed. This is my version:

You: They knew about the rapes and did nothing and other boys got murdered

Me: They didn't know until after BVE was put away - victims didn't report it until they saw him on TV. It wasn't until 1990s they put a case together using the rape victims.


I saw the 60mins episode when it was on TV. I remember the victim saying he went to the house for a party and there were a heap of men and women there and then he passed out and some how managed to bolt.

He came forward in 1980 . He didn’t just say he passed out he said they put him in a bed and what he thought was a she turned out to be a man . He said he was in and out of consciousness and he in his statements ID bve , dr , pf and LT .


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[Kurve]

It was a full committal hearing and not once did dr take the stand nor did his statements ever get taken into evidence . Dr would have known what he gave them would have fallen into similar fact evidence and be dismissed . MS would have told him this .


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If Mr. R's (DR) similar fact evidence wouldn't have helped to get it all over the line, I can see why they might not have put him up if he was resistant to taking the stand and knowing they actually wanted him for murder?

 

[John Barnes]

If Mr. R's (DR) similar fact evidence wouldn't have helped to get it all over the line, I can see why they might not have put him up if he was resistant to taking the stand and knowing they actually wanted him for murder?

Just to let you know I can not call any of them Mr sorry when I was it was getting to me. When I went there the cops pulled me over to coals about it and said “ he is a dpp witness and if I say anything about bve again they would lock me up or ever go there again “ . Tk with PV told me this but I went back anyway with mom and Cherie after dad died . He shit bricks . When I first went there I was with 2 others . If you question that I didn’t know who DR was back then look up the age news papers over the time of the committal hearing as they put all the names in print . They are not held back by suppression orders in SA and had all the names listed in there paper .


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[Kurve]

Just to let you know I can not call any of them Mr sorry when I was it was getting to me. When I went there the cops pulled me over to coals about it and said “ he is a dpp witness and if I say anything about bve again they would lock me up or ever go there again “ . Tk with PV told me this but I went back anyway with mom and Cherie after dad died . He sh*t bricks . When I first went there I was with 2 others . If you question that I didn’t know who DR was back then look up the age news papers over the time of the committal hearing as they put all the names in print . They are held back by suppression orders in SA and had all the names listed in there paper .


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I'm not questioning you or your understanding, you were there I wasn't. If it was my brother I would have known exactly who and where everybody was as well.

Its just my way of trying to slot info in, in the way I understand it.