Unsolved The Family Murders

[Kurve]

The Who's Who List

• #2,647

VICTIMS
AB - Alan Barnes 16yo
NM - Neil Muir 25yo
PS - Peter Stogneff 14yo
ML - Mark Langley 18yo
RK- Richard Kelvin 15yo

• DS - Derrance Stevenson high risk lifestyle pornographer and criminal lawyer shot to death
• DS - David Szach convicted for the murder of criminal lawyer Derrence Stevenson

DECEASED
DSD - Denis St Denis hairdresser
RBD - Richard Dutton Brown the magistrate
PF - Pru Firman
SN - Sarah Novak
BG - Brian Gant
NB - Noel Brook also known as Di Di
TP - Trevor Peters of the diaries
PM - Dr. Peter Leslie Millhouse acquitted for the murder of Neil Muir

LIVING until further notice
BVE - Bevan von Einem also known as 'Bevbang' to inner circle and 'Vonnie' in the prison system
Mr R - The businessman name suppressed
SGW - Dr Stephen George Woodards
Mr. B - Teenage prostitute and informant name suppressed
JL - Jacquie the nurse mentioned in the ebook as a good friend of and who rented a unit close to BVEs unit we assume name suppressed?
LT - Lewis Turtur also known as 'Louie'
A - The older teenage boy Peter Stogneff's parents feel may have had something to do with their son's abduction
RR - Raymond Rozankowski who was a friend of BVE and lived in the same street as A

DK - Darko Kastellan assistant to Gambardella
GG - Gino Gambardella chiropractor fled to Italy

Out of Sight - The Untold Story of Adelaide's Gay Hate Murders

The Cases of Forensic Pathologist Colin Manock

Use this thread below to lodge media, maps and photos for quick reference.

Unsolved - The Family Murders - MEDIA

This thread may be used to post the Family Murders media related content. To include press and gathered photographs from various sources. Please feel free to post but as this is a no discussion thread, comments will be deleted or moved at discretion. WHO'S WHO VICTIMS AB - Alan Barnes 16yo...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[PaulSubetro]

No mention of any of the Family Murders victims ever having been in a freezer at any point?

Not that I recall. Also, the Family aren't hitmen, they were driven by sex with young males. I'm struggling to see a connection between Derrances murder and the Family murders. I think it's just coincidence that the first guy they killed was gay and therefore knew Derrance.

 

[PaulSubetro]

I wonder where all the other young men got to who were attending Derrance's Friday night soirees? I'm assuming it would have been attended by many of the street kids and rent boys who had something to gain by going there. It would be good if Marshall could dig some of these guys up and asked what typically happened on these nights, why they attended, how often they attended, did they ever see Szach attend, Barnes, Kastelan etc.

 

[GreyCrow]

I wonder where all the other young men got to who were attending Derrance's Friday night soirees? I'm assuming it would have been attended by many of the street kids and rent boys who had something to gain by going there. It would be good if Marshall could dig some of these guys up and asked what typically happened on these nights, why they attended, how often they attended, did they ever see Szach attend, Barnes, Kastelan etc.

A celebration for Derrance

They all stood around singing Freezer Jolly Good Fellow

 

[Kurve]

Not that I recall. Also, the Family aren't hitmen, they were driven by sex with young males. I'm struggling to see a connection between Derrances murder and the Family murders. I think it's just coincidence that the first guy they killed was gay and therefore knew Derrance.

Looks a bit loose but I'm keeping in mind Marshall applied initially to overturn 30 suppression orders, whittled her list down due to the amount of work and time it would take to 12. She only got 5 lifted and the rest, among them key suspects, remain protected.

It's also said in the first episode by an old school crime reporter who was around at the time that they all knew who the Family Murders involved but the story could never be told because of the ramifications.

 

[acermark]

It's at 14:30 of the first episode

Rough details are:

In 1979 a guy called Colin Todd said he was at a pub having a beer. His second beer was very bitter and then he started feeling ill. A tall guy approached and asked if he was ok. He offered Colin a lift home so he accepted.

But he was taken somewhere else. A Victorian Terrace at no.6 with lead light windows and a small garden. The tall good samaritan help Colin inside as he was uneasy on his feet. The house was sparsely furnished, probably makeshift furnishing. Colin was helped onto the lounge and given another beer. It had the same bitter taste. The tall good samaritan sat across from him in an arm chair and just stared at him while his head swirled. It was an evil look. Colin knew something wasn't right so asked to use the toilet. He went down the passage, out the back door and bailed.

He never reported it to the police. When there was an arrest over the Richard Kelvin murder Colin recognised his abductor as Bevan Spencer von Einem.

--

I wonder at what stage in 1979. Apparently BVE and DSD rented a house in the inner east to take victims. But this probably can't have been before Alan Barnes (June 1979) because BVE showed DSD photos of Barnes unconscious in his car (probably with a strategically placed bottle). If BVE and DSD already had that rental then he'd be unlikely showing him photos at the salon, he be showing him the real-life thing.

So some questions;

1. Barnes was held for days. Where was he held? Did BVE and DSD already have the rental? My guess is no based on, a) pictures of Barnes in BVE's car - if they had a private home then wouldn't he just take him there rather than a less private and more risky car? Or did they need to wait until nightfall to take them victims into the house/unit etc), and b) why did he need to show DSD photos? Wouldn't be, "I got one, come to the house/unit"?, and c) DSD was said to have asked, "who's that?" to which BVE replied, "just some hitch hiker" which suggests DSD had no prior knowledge.

2. Where was Neil Muir held? From abduction to chopped up and dumped was within 24 hours, probably same night. He was extensively sliced and diced which would have been messy. So where did this happen? This also suggests that BVE and DSD had not yet rented that property - otherwise they have have held him longer or not needed to dump the body on the same night.

3. No. 6. Is this the place that BVE and DSD rented to hold the boys? I wonder if SAPOL have checked tenancy and ownership records on this place.


Lastly, I don't want to knock Mr Todd, but I can't imagine this happening to me and not going to police. I'd probably go straight away and say, "see that house, you need to find out who has occupancy because something dodgy is going on". Failing that, as soon as Kelvin goes missing, it's got to cross your mind that maybe there's a link.

Thanks heaps for podcast info, I'm not from Adelaide but I wonder which suburbs are more likely to have a Victorian terrace?

I reckon it was after June in 1979 as well when they had the terrace rental. I'd say too only having his mother out of the house every 2nd weekend to bring drugged boys home quickly become too long to wait for BVE. Also it was in December 1978 when BVE was starting to be prescribed large amounts of Mandrax and other drugs and I consider this time to be the beginning of The Family.

For the questions:

1. I wonder if Alan Barnes was being held in BVE's garage? The garage at his Campbelltown flat was right at the end of the driveway and was sort of separate from the rest of the flat. Perhaps it was in here that the photos in the car were taken?

2. Perhaps upstairs at Mr R's shop is a possible location for where Muir was killed? That bare room with just a mattress surely had some sort of purpose for them.

3. It could well be, when Trevor Peters described it as a flat they were renting out maybe the terrace had separate flats/rooms on each level?

 

[acermark]

You might take the record for long time lucking ... 14 years before making your first post! Have you taken an interest in the other Adelaide strange murders as well?

Hehe, yep it's definitely been a very long time! I'm very interested in the Beaumont/Ratcliffe/Gordon cases as well as Derrance Stevenson's murder. But The Family Murders have totally captivated me for nearly 20 years.

 

[Kurve]

Derrance's VCR is visible also in the crime scene pics.

Ep 4. 36.00

If you find that, can you post it.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

[PaulSubetro]

Looks a bit loose but I'm keeping in mind Marshall applied initially to overturn 30 suppression orders, whittled her list down due to the amount of work and time it would take to 12. She only got 5 lifted and the rest, among them key suspects, remain protected.

It's also said in the first episode by an old school crime reporter who was around at the time that they all knew who the Family Murders involved but the story could never be told because of the ramifications.

The suppression orders have always been unclear to me. In Marshall's doco she says she had 5 removed but is only explicitly clear that Turtur and Firman are included in the 5. Then she implies Brown and Storen. I assume the other is Brooks? Maybe Gant?

Of the major players it looks like only Mr R and Mr B are still suppressed.

That leaves about 18-20 still suppressed. There were 9 hitchhiker witnesses in the 1990 court case. Also a transgender who lived at 46 Shipsters Rd name Sarah Novak, plus a "Miss Russell" plus a guy named Fehim Hodzic who knew Barnes and saw a white station wagon pull over on Grand Junction Rd and potentially pick him up. I have no idea if those names are suppressed or not.

But I'm pretty confident the 11 or 12 people who have dominated the discussion are the most important (in terms of involvement).

As for the old school journo, all he's saying is the main players' names have been suppressed and there's ramifications (fines) if those names are released. Maybe in those 30 names there's a big name. Brown is a big name so could one of his mates. But this person (if they exist) would most likely be peripheral to the case and it would be unclear if he had any involvement.

 

[acermark]

Derrance's VCR is visible also in the crime scene pics.

Ep 4. 36.00

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Missed that! Will have to re-watch that bit tonight.

 

[PaulSubetro]

Thanks heaps for podcast info, I'm not from Adelaide but I wonder which suburbs are more likely to have a Victorian terrace?

I reckon it was after June in 1979 as well when they had the terrace rental. I'd say too only having his mother out of the house every 2nd weekend to bring drugged boys home quickly become too long to wait for BVE. Also it was in December 1978 when BVE was starting to be prescribed large amounts of Mandrax and other drugs and I consider this time to be the beginning of The Family.

For the questions:

1. I wonder if Alan Barnes was being held in BVE's garage? The garage at his Campbelltown flat was right at the end of the driveway and was sort of separate from the rest of the flat. Perhaps it was in here that the photos in the car were taken?

2. Perhaps upstairs at Mr R's shop is a possible location for where Muir was killed? That bare room with just a mattress surely had some sort of purpose for them.

3. It could well be, when Trevor Peters described it as a flat they were renting out maybe the terrace had separate flats/rooms on each level?

BVE's garage is a possibility. Maybe that weekend BVE's mother was away an extra day?

Mr R's shop - i believe they searched this comprehensively so I believe they would have discovered if a body was cut up there. Mr R was constantly on the prowl for sex. He was cruising beats every lunchtime and every day after work. I'd say the mattress was just there in case he found someone who would have sex with him. He wasn't offering that up to BVE. He was happy for BVE to pay the transgenders mandrax to use their house.

TP described a flat. IIRC one of the transgenders pointed it out to him as they drove past one day. A flat would have been hard to maintain privacy - getting the boys in, keeping noise down, getting the body out etc. I wonder if SAPOL have found this location yet. TP describes flat, Colin Todd describes a terrace. Maybe they had access to multiple places? Maybe one of them is incorrect? Or maybe it's as you say - a terrace split into units.

 

[PaulSubetro]

Derrance's VCR is visible also in the crime scene pics.

Ep 4. 36.00

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

I didn't see that in that spot but for reference the part with the "bottles of 200 pills" is in ep 4 at about the 30 min mark. It's part of TP's diaries.

Also you can clearly read "about the length of a forearm" in references to the photos of Barnes on the front seat. BVE seemed to like inserting large foreign objects.

 

[Kurve]

Missed that! Will have to re-watch that bit tonight.

Episode 4 of the podcast Acermark. I must have missed some of it the first time around, I don't have Fox but prefer the pods anyway.

 

[Kurve]

I didn't see that in that spot but for reference the part with the "bottles of 200 pills" is in ep 4 at about the 30 min mark. It's part of TP's diaries.

I think there's two independent references to bottles of pills. Cops found prescription pills at BVEs house which led them to the doctor who prescribed them. Is it an assumption BVE must have been getting these big bottles of pills from that doctor?

Interesting to note as well, when the testosterone (steroids) were found in Derrance's hidey hole under the floor the finder made reference to the use by date so they're probably trackable. Were any attempts made to find out where they came from originally? On prescription would be my guess. That may have then tied The Family in?

 

[PaulSubetro]

I think there's two independent references to bottles of pills. Cops found prescription pills at BVEs house which led them to the doctor who prescribed them. Is it an assumption BVE must have been getting these big bottles of pills from that doctor?

Interesting to note as well, when the testosterone (steroids) were found in Derrance's hidey hole under the floor the finder made reference to the use by date so they're probably trackable. Were any attempts made to find out where they came from originally? On prescription would be my guess. That may have then tied The Family in?

The general consensus is that Woodards was subscribing BVE with Mandrax. That's how they found BVE. Within days of Barnes being found Mr B called up police and gave them BVE's name. SAPOL prioritised known associates of Barnes first so BVE was not looked into. Once they knew all the boys were getting drugged they went and sifted through the health registers and that's when they noticed/recognised BVE's name.

On the testosterone - I don't think it's just a question of finding some sort of link between. BVE and Derrance would have to have known each other. Derrance would have had to have known Brown (even though there was a 14 year age gap).

But these are the facts as we know them;

1. Derrance died before the first Family murder
2. There has never been any evidence Derrance rode in cars and picked up and drugged young men. In fact, there's no evidence Derrance r*ped men. He used coercion to sleep with young men rather than force. Statutory rape is a different method to rape. They have different MOs as to how they position themselves to sleep with (often) underage men.
3. There is no evidence Derrance ever went to the Transgender house
4. There is no evidence BVE or Mr R frequented Derrance's house
5. All the action around BVE happened whilst mobile in a car, at BVE's mum's house, or at the transgender house whilst all the action around Derrance happened at Derrance's house.



Marshall seemed to suggest that, "Gamba knows BVE, Barnes knows Derrance and Gamba, therefore that places Derrance right in the middle of it all". I know people want there to be a link but based on what we know, it's unlikely.

Unless some new evidence (that's better than an ex rent-boy making the claim) comes to light, I'm not buying into it.

 

[Macka_321]

It must be so frustrating for police that they don’t seem to have enough evidence to charge anyone else. The likelihood anyone else been charged now seems unlikely.

 

[EvansHodges77]

What's not getting across is this;

Someone has gone to the trouble to get names. Some insist on ignoring it (even after most of those names have been confirmed) and crapping on about top echelons and BVE being on the bottom rung of a group of high profile individuals.

You've made claims about the radio host guy, Millhouse and "two others" but when asked for clarification it's "no one really knows" and "it's not a stupid club". It seems like you're pushing your weight around but have no substance to back it up.

People like you want to believe it's people from the top of society and there's a massive conspiracy but the truth is much simpler. You've been given names on a silver platter. Most of those names have been confirmed (suppression orders removed), yet you're on here beating your chest and talking down to people.

So why don't I spell it out to you;

- BVE was the main man
- He was regularly picking up young guys, giving them a spiked drink, and then taking them to a house and raping them. He lived at home with his Mum. If his Mum was away, he'd take them to his place. If not, he'd got to the house near Port Adelaide that was shared by transgenders Turtur, Firman and Hill. Turtur would let BVE bring drugged boys back in exchange for drugs (Mandrax)
- Turtur, Firman and Hill would sometimes be used as bait to pick up young men. BVE would promise alcohol, drugs, girls, sex etc. Once he got the boys back there he would spike their drinks.
- Mandrax (aka Quaaludes) was this social circle's drug of choice. Quaaludes were huge in the 70s and early 80s before being banned. The Wolf of Wall St was all over them. Gay people liked them because they were a muscle relaxant and made it easier to have anal sex. BVE liked them for drugging and rape boys.
- BVE associated with different pockets of the gay scene. He used the TV share house to take boys, he hung around young boys like Mr B, Neil Muir and Alan Barnes. His closest associate was Mr R. These are people who would aid and abet him in abductions.
- Mr B was a child prostitute. Neil Muir was a heroin addict and also new Dr Millhouse so it's likely he was either gay or a child prostitute. Alan Barnes was dabbling in heroin and also hung around with Derrance Stephenson so possibly a child prostitute or homosexual.
- Mr B testified he saw Mr R and BVE in a car immediately before Richard Kelvin was abducted. Police believe Mr B was also in the car.
- Either Mr B or one of the Transgenders made a statement that on a few occasions, when a victim was passed out, BVE would insert metal objects into anal passages and look down their with a torch (yep, gross).
- That list that's floating around here is roughly the order of involvement. BVE was the ringleader, Mr R the second most involved, Mr B third, Woodards 4th etc.
- And yes, it's not a club or even defined group. It was a loose group of associates who were involved in what BVE was doing.

I know you're hell-bent on hoping, as well as convincing others that it's judge, politicians, radio personalities, celebrities etc who are protected by the people and institutions at the top, but this is just not true.

It's a bunch of gay guys centered around a guy who was drugging and raping young men before it escalated to serial murder. There's no household names. Just some average guys, add in a doctor and magistrate, as well as a child prostitute and some transgenders who turned a blind eye to get free mandrax.

Your in la la land mate..probably replying for them

 

[Kurve]

The general consensus is that Woodards was subscribing BVE with Mandrax. That's how they found BVE. Within days of Barnes being found Mr B called up police and gave them BVE's name. SAPOL prioritised known associates of Barnes first so BVE was not looked into. Once they knew all the boys were getting drugged they went and sifted through the health registers and that's when they noticed/recognised BVE's name.

I agree. I forgot that bit but that was all on script, too easy. Can BvE legitimately be labelled a 'drug dealer' if he's only on-selling his prescriptions per pill? It's almost ridiculous given the scale. Woodards wasn't even charged around that far as I can tell. Without laboring the point, I think the cops could have looked just a bit harder.

Marshall seemed to suggest that, "Gamba knows BVE, Barnes knows Derrance and Gamba, therefore that places Derrance right in the middle of it all". I know people want there to be a link but based on what we know, it's unlikely.

Why was Alan Barnes targeted? Looking through the listed injuries quickly there are obviously a lot of similarities but what stands out with Barnes, is that he appeared to have taken the kind of 'beating' that is absent with the others.

Did Gambardella set von Einem and his sidekick onto Alan Barnes? Maybe by telling them it was Alan Barnes who had all the pics, tapes and drugs that were cleaned out of Derrance's house? It wouldn't take them long to find him.

I think if this is ever looked into again, the law should find a way of extraditing Gambardella back to Australia.

 

[Kurve]

Unless some new evidence (that's better than an ex rent-boy making the claim) comes to light, I'm not buying into it.

Blackmail though, is definitely something that could get a person killed. If Szach's appeal is successful, I might change my mind again about whether he did it or not.

 

[Kurve]

I think if this is ever looked into again, the law should find a way of extraditing Gambardella back to Australia

To expand just a little, Gambardella was given a pass at the end of the committal into Derrance's murder. The reason why is a little vague, if he was assisting the police by giving them ammunition on Szach that may be part of the answer but not all of it as an accessory to murder. It's suggested Gambardella had friends pulling strings for him in the system.

Then pouffe, he's gone.

 

[GreyCrow]

I find it interesting he felt the need to leave Australia if he had nothing to hide or worry about

 

[Kurve]

I find it interesting he felt the need to leave Australia if he had nothing to hide or worry about

From what I can gather thus far, he also had more charges to front?

 

[Kurve]

Something always bugged me a bit with Richard Kelvin's abduction. BvE and associate/s apparently held a 15yo young man approaching his prime, near to peaking in strength and fitness for five weeks, somewhere in the suburbs presumably. Okay, he was drugged but he had to be conscious and aware enough at times to know that's what they were doing, he had to have food and water and drugged without throwing it all back up and all this apparently while BvE and associate went to work carrying on as normal.

It's said his hair was cut through the time he was held. Or was that an assumption because Richard's hair hadn't grown? Is it possible Richard was killed fairly quickly, stored in a freezer until things settled down a bit?

Derrance had a conversation with Gambardella and Szach about how to hide a murder victim's time of death. Derrance said the answer was to put it in a freezer. (Frozen Lies pod)

It seems he was right because even with current science apparently, if someone's been stored in a freezer and defrosted we still can't tell. Szach has raised his appeal on it.

 

[GreyCrow]

It seems he was right because even with current science apparently, if someone's been stored in a freezer and defrosted we still can't tell. Szach has raised his appeal on it.

I think his other avenue is to discredit Colin Manock - who had issues with Henry Keoghs trial/appeal

 

[PaulSubetro]

It must be so frustrating for police that they don’t seem to have enough evidence to charge anyone else. The likelihood anyone else been charged now seems unlikely.

I'd like to see them have one more red-hot go at it. It seems they dipped their toes into the water when TP's diaries were found. Now Turtur is talking.

SAPOL should be all over this.

 

[PaulSubetro]

Your in la la land mate..probably replying for them

who is "them"