Unsolved The Family Murders

[Kurve]

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Out of Sight - The Untold Story of Adelaide's Gay Hate Murders

The Cases of Forensic Pathologist Colin Manock

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Unsolved - The Family Murders - MEDIA

This thread may be used to post the Family Murders media related content. To include press and gathered photographs from various sources. Please feel free to post but as this is a no discussion thread, comments will be deleted or moved at discretion. WHO'S WHO VICTIMS AB - Alan Barnes 16yo...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[PaulSubetro]

I agree. I forgot that bit but that was all on script, too easy. Can BvE legitimately be labelled a 'drug dealer' if he's only on-selling his prescriptions per pill? It's almost ridiculous given the scale. Woodards wasn't even charged around that far as I can tell. Without laboring the point, I think the cops could have looked just a bit harder.

I think their biggest mistake was not going hard enough at the transgenders. They should have been threatened with being charged with rape and being an accessory unless they coughed up the location of the unit/terrace.

Why was Alan Barnes targeted? Looking through the listed injuries quickly there are obviously a lot of similarities but what stands out with Barnes, is that he appeared to have taken the kind of 'beating' that is absent with the others.

Kelvin was also tortured. He had bruising that were from weeks before his death. Barnes probably wasn't targeted. Mr B said he and BVE were cruising when they came across him hitch hiking.

Did Gambardella set von Einem and his sidekick onto Alan Barnes? Maybe by telling them it was Alan Barnes who had all the pics, tapes and drugs that were cleaned out of Derrance's house? It wouldn't take them long to find him.

Possible but unlikely. Gambardella possibly could have known Barnes would hitchhike back to Salisbury every Sunday and given BVE a tip. But that's pretty far-fetched. On top of that there is no evidence BVE and Gambardella were close, or that BVE was attending Derrance's parties.

I think if this is ever looked into again, the law should find a way of extraditing Gambardella back to Australia.

Apparently he's in another continent. My money is on Asia.

 

[PaulSubetro]

Something always bugged me a bit with Richard Kelvin's abduction. BvE and associate/s apparently held a 15yo young man approaching his prime, near to peaking in strength and fitness for five weeks, somewhere in the suburbs presumably. Okay, he was drugged but he had to be conscious and aware enough at times to know that's what they were doing, he had to have food and water and drugged without throwing it all back up and all this apparently while BvE and associate went to work carrying on as normal.

It's said his hair was cut through the time he was held. Or was that an assumption because Richard's hair hadn't grown? Is it possible Richard was killed fairly quickly, stored in a freezer until things settled down a bit?

Derrance had a conversation with Gambardella and Szach about how to hide a murder victim's time of death. Derrance said the answer was to put it in a freezer. (Frozen Lies pod)

It seems he was right because even with current science apparently, if someone's been stored in a freezer and defrosted we still can't tell. Szach has raised his appeal on it.

Kelvin had bruising that was weeks before death. He was also placed at BVE's house some weeks after abduction. I think he also had food in his system - I guess that would stay there if he was frozen though.

 

[Kurve]

Kelvin was also tortured. He had bruising that were from weeks before his death. Barnes probably wasn't targeted. Mr B said he and BVE were cruising when they came across him hitch hiking.

If we accept it was Alan Barnes at the Legal Aid Commission and he was at the house the night Derrance was killed I can't put his murder two weeks later down to coincidence.

 

[PaulSubetro]

Blackmail though, is definitely something that could get a person killed. If Szach's appeal is successful, I might change my mind again about whether he did it or not.

Dr Manock was a charlatan. That may be a good reason to overturn the conviction. I wonder if they then take into consideration the new evidence from Marshall which strongly indicates Szach is guilty.

 

[PaulSubetro]

I find it interesting he felt the need to leave Australia if he had nothing to hide or worry about

We need to know;

What date he left Australia
What date he was acquitted of being an accessory
What date the new charges were laid on

 

[PaulSubetro]

If we accept it was Alan Barnes at the Legal Aid Commission and he was at the house the night Derrance was killed I can't put his murder two weeks later down to coincidence.

It's a question of which one is more unlikely.


Option 1

Alan Barnes witnessing a murder or the aftermath of a murder, then goes to Legal Aid to spill the beans and then winds up murdered himself 2 weeks later

That's unlikely to be a coincidence

Option 2

Even though forensics show that Szach was likely present when Derrance died and definitely present when he was dead (before he was put into freezer), it was actually someone else who murdered him because Derrance was blackmailing them. The hit person/s who killed him also didn't bring their own gun. They used Derrence's gun. Then they convinced Szach to take an 18 year sentence for it without spilling the beans on who actually did it.

But wait, there's more....

Then a different bunch of dudes (or maybe these guys are the hit team who killed Derrence) who are involved with the systematic drugging, abduction and rape of young men are convinced to murder Alan Barnes. They conveniently come across him hitchhiking 20km out from the city then drug, rape and murder him. That was so much fun (who would have known) they then go and drug/rape/murder four more dudes.

All this when there's no evidence BVE socialised at Derence's pad (or vice versa)


If you think Option 1 is a little crazy to be a coincidence then Option 2 is batship crazy. The chances of option 2 happening are remote.

 

[Bits]

It is so frustrating that there is obviously a huge amount of info known to Marshall, the other journos she interviewed, various relatives of victims. If Marshall could access it, eg court records, TP’s diary, then is the assumption that any interested member of the public could too? If so, so why not just publish it? So many niggling gaps could be cleared up if only things could be made public. Why, for example, hasn’t a transcript of TP’s diary been released? They could redact the suppressed names. I’m hoping that Marshall’s book will include so far unknown information.

 

[PaulSubetro]

For the "Derrance murder" and "the Family" to be linked there has to be a piece of the puzzle that is a game changer.

To me, the "Barnes at scene-Legal Aid-winds up dead" scenario is explainable. Suspicious, but could easily be that - a coincidence.

The "link" theory relies on too many unlikelihoods happening. For the "link theory" to be true there's got to be some piece of the puzzle that is either wrong or unknown and once known, it's a game changer.

The weak point of the "no link" theory is not the unlikelihood of coincidence of "Barnes at scene-Legal Aid-wind up dead" scenario, but the contradiction in Gambardella being at the scene after the fact, seemingly help clean up, and then not testify against Szach. If that can be explained then we'll have a better idea if "link theory" or "no link theory" is correct.

 

[PaulSubetro]

It is so frustrating that there is obviously a huge amount of info known to Marshall, the other journos she interviewed, various relatives of victims. If Marshall could access it, eg court records, TP’s diary, then is the assumption that any interested member of the public could too? If so, so why not just publish it? So many niggling gaps could be cleared up if only things could be made public. Why, for example, hasn’t a transcript of TP’s diary been released? They could redact the suppressed names. I’m hoping that Marshall’s book will include so far unknown information.

I want to know what she knows about Mr B.

 

[Bits]

I don't think there is a "link". More an overlap. Like a Venn diagram. There is the Family circle and the Derrance circle and then, at the very least, Gambardella, Barnes, Kastellan are in the middle moving in both circles.

 

[acermark]

BVE's garage is a possibility. Maybe that weekend BVE's mother was away an extra day?

Mr R's shop - i believe they searched this comprehensively so I believe they would have discovered if a body was cut up there. Mr R was constantly on the prowl for sex. He was cruising beats every lunchtime and every day after work. I'd say the mattress was just there in case he found someone who would have sex with him. He wasn't offering that up to BVE. He was happy for BVE to pay the transgenders mandrax to use their house.

TP described a flat. IIRC one of the transgenders pointed it out to him as they drove past one day. A flat would have been hard to maintain privacy - getting the boys in, keeping noise down, getting the body out etc. I wonder if SAPOL have found this location yet. TP describes flat, Colin Todd describes a terrace. Maybe they had access to multiple places? Maybe one of them is incorrect? Or maybe it's as you say - a terrace split into units.

BVE's mother could've been away longer that weekend, actually that weekend of 16-17 June may have been the Queen's birthday long weekend for 1979 but will have to find out. But I think you're right about Mr R's shop.

Given the discrepancies with the descriptions given by Peters and Todd they may have had a number of different places over the course of the 4 or so years The Family were active, perhaps they preferred to rent out different locations on short term leases to not arouse suspicions of their activities if they were in the one spot for too long. If Turtur is to be believed they didn't go to their place all that much.

 

[acermark]

Episode 4 of the podcast Acermark. I must have missed some of it the first time around, I don't have Fox but prefer the pods anyway.

Ahh cool, I do remember hearing Debi talking about it on the podcast. I wish they had shown the photo on the TV series, the VCR must have taken up most of the desk!

 

[acermark]

Kelvin had bruising that was weeks before death. He was also placed at BVE's house some weeks after abduction. I think he also had food in his system - I guess that would stay there if he was frozen though.

Yeah, Kelvin definitely was alive for the 5 weeks as his bruises had different colouring suggesting they had occured at different times. One bruise on his back too was apparently consistent with being thrown against a wall.

 

[Kurve]

Kelvin had bruising that was weeks before death. He was also placed at BVE's house some weeks after abduction. I think he also had food in his system - I guess that would stay there if he was frozen though.

Even severe bruising heals within two weeks, most are invisible at ten days. I accept he had bruising in varying stages of healing but imagine the worst of it happened through the abduction and immediately after when he was putting up the most fight?

BVE took Richard on the 5th of June, had time off work and didn't go back until the 14th. Nine days.

He was also found in a slightly strange position imo, scrunched up with his legs bent towards his chest, his head forwards and his arms wrapped around his legs. Somewhat like Derrance was found in the freezer.

Maybe I'd like to think that Richard wasn't held alive for five weeks and that it was over before BVE went back to work. And that maybe the cops should have been looking for another freezer.

 

[PaulSubetro]

Maybe I'd like to think that Richard wasn't held alive for five weeks and that it was over before BVE went back to work. And that maybe the cops should have been looking for another freezer.

So far you think it's not a coincidence that Barnes died two weeks after (probably) witnessing a dead Derrance. You also think the Family killed Derrance. With these come flow on effects. Have you got a top to bottom theory?

 

[Bits]

There are too many players on the edge of this who must have known something yet appear to have walked away with no repercussions. Darko, the trans bunch (especially Turtur who now admits raping drugged boys), Mr R, Mr B.

I’d love to know what immunity deals were done in order to get BVE convicted. The crimes were just so shocking that SAPOL, DPP etc needed to lock someone up for the sake of appeasing the public if nothing else. Seems they may have gone all out to get BVE at the expense of throwing away other possible convictions.

 

[PaulSubetro]

There are too many players on the edge of this who must have known something yet appear to have walked away with no repercussions. Darko, the trans bunch (especially Turtur who now admits raping drugged boys), Mr R, Mr B.

I’d love to know what immunity deals were done in order to get BVE convicted. The crimes were just so shocking that SAPOL, DPP etc needed to lock someone up for the sake of appeasing the public if nothing else. Seems they may have gone all out to get BVE at the expense of throwing away other possible convictions.

I think it's much simpler - they had no proof.

BVE was convicted for Kelvin because forensics proved that Kelvin was at BVE's house some weeks after abduction. BVE conceded that he picked up Kelvin, took him to his house, and then dropped him in the CBD with $20 to catch a bus. The forensics proved he was lying.

BVE was charged in 1989/90 for Barnes and Langley. Mr R was within a cat hair of being charged. The charges against BVE were based on testimony of Mr B and propensity evidence. Nine drug-rape victims of BVE made statements. The prosecution's argument was, "Here's nine people who all testify they were picked up, drugged and r*ped by BVE. It's the exact same MO as the murders". The defence argued that Mr B's testimony was unreliable. He didn't mention Mr R was involved in the Barnes murder until a few years after he made his first statement, therefore had a history of changing statements. Mr B also claimed BVE was responsible for Beaumont and Radcliffe which was far fetched. By this stage Mr B was also a recovering heroin addict. The court ruled that propensity evidence wasn't valid and along with the credibility of Mr B being exposed, the prosecution dropped the charges before it went to trial.

One of the biggest issues SAPOL had was they didn't ascertain the unit/terrace that the victims were taken to. SAPOL were pretty sure who was involved, although to what degree exactly remained unclear. They just didn't have physical evidence. Although Mr B was deemed unreliable, all the things he told police early in the piece matched up. What he told them was confirmed by TP's diaries as well as statements from Turtur.

There's just been a lack of physical evidence. It's easy to say in hindsight but I believe if SAPOL went hard on the transgenders they may have uncovered the location of the unit/terrace, and if some of those names weren't suppressed, a lot more leads and evidence would have come in from the public possibly resulting in some convictions.

 

[PaulSubetro]

From the Tom Mann book;

Justice Wells, however, didn’t leave Gambardella to one
side and suggested to the jury that the alleged phone call
between Stevenson and Szach on the night of the murder
could have been between Gambardella and Szach.
Justice Wells again relied on the absence of
Gambardella to ask the jury if perhaps Szach’s delayed
time (on the Crown’s case) of having returned to
Stevenson’s premises, after leaving his parents’ home,
could be explained by Szach calling into Gambardella’s
place. ‘It wouldn’t require very much of a deviation to
take in Gambardella’s premises on your way back to 189
Greenhill Road,’ he said.
The suggestion of collusion was reinforced by the
observation of Mr Shields of Gambardella’s vehicle
parked in Stevenson’s rear side car park at 8.45 pm and a
smaller vehicle thought to be Stevenson’s Datsun

 

[PaulSubetro]

This is the alternate theory Szach's lawyers offered up at the trial:

The suspicions and innuendos raised by both Mr Martin
and Justice Wells need to be considered in the light of,
first, the nature of the relationship on that night between
Stevenson and Szach. The evidence, from the previous
day, Sunday afternoon, at Ron Strickland’s place where
Derrance slept on David Szach’s lap for half an hour,
suggests an intimate relationship, unlikely to change over
the next day. When asked by Elliott Johnston if there had
been any show of animosity or tension on that day
between them, Ron Strickland said he had not noticed
any and that they were ‘very good friends’.
The relationship had lasted almost three years and was
one of sharing and loving. Should it not be surprising
then that Szach wore some of Derrance’s clothes, drove
his car and possessed items belonging to Derrance?
Secondly, given Derrance’s potentially dangerous
connections with criminals, should it not be surprising
that Derrance ran into trouble and wanted to ‘get out’ and
at the same time ensure that Szach, whom he cared about,
was out of harm’s way following the Gambardella phone
call?

And, thirdly, who, apart from Szach, would know the
intimate details of Derrance’s home and habits? Certainly
Gambardella, who had visited Derrance’s premises on
numerous occasions and slept in Derrance’s bed.
These crucial factors were pivotal for countering many
of the suspicions raised by the Crown prosecutor and
Judge, and suggest a likely scenario:
The young man, who called on the Legal Services
Commission, at about 8:15 am on Tuesday 5 June 1979,
knew all about the ‘crime’ which had been committed.
He said, ‘Derrance was in no condition when I left him
last night.’ ‘No condition’ might have meant Derrance
had been murdered.
Perhaps the young man was present when the murder
was committed but wanted a way out. He was worried
about confidentiality, and Anne Shea, the secretary, gave
him that assurance, but he kept quiet about the true nature
of the crime for fear of incriminating himself. The young
man, however, had sealed his fate and was never seen
again.
Derrance was deeply troubled by his association with
criminals who had pushed his moral tolerance to the
limit. His criminal associates, to avoid exposure, felt they
had no choice but to silence Derrance. Derrance felt
compelled to face his accusers that night.
After the phone call with Gambardella, Derrance
became concerned for Szach’s safety and wanted him on
his way to Coober Pedy before Gambardella’s associate
arrived to pick him up. Because it was winter, Derrance
gave his coat to Szach. And because of the urgency of the
situation, Derrance was in no frame of mind to retrieve
items such as his reading glasses from his coat pocket or
from the Datsun. Derrance impressed upon Szach to go
to Coober Pedy straightaway. Szach respected Derrance’s

decision and complied; he went to the bus station to
cancel his bus ticket.
Derrance left his premises at 6.40 pm in the company
of a casually dressed young man —not Szach — who had
called to take Derrance to a rendezvous and face his
accusers.
Under direction, Gambardella, or whoever, and two or
more accomplices, returned with Derrance to his
premises at 8.45 pm and soon after fulfilled a plan to kill
him. A pillow, later identified by Szach as missing, was
held against the back of Derrance’s head. He was pinned
down on the bed by two accomplices while a third fired
the fatal shot. The killers turned over the mattress and
remade the bed in a casual way, as Szach might have
done. To further implicate Szach, they cleaned up the
bedroom and placed the body in the freezer; Tabac
deodorant was sprayed on the gun and the gun replaced;
money was taken from the cash box. They left the light
and radio on, according to Derrance’s habit — known to
Gambardella and Szach. Heaters were left on to dry out
the dampness in the rooms.
After the execution-style murder, Gambardella, or
whoever, hatched a plot to have one of the accomplices
dress up as Derrance, wearing glasses with brown
frames, a suit, white shirt and tie, and carrying an attaché
case. The man gave enough opportunity for the taxi
driver to observe him by sitting in the front seat and later
when he was called back to retrieve the garbage bag and
the attaché case left on the back seat. The gamble worked
and the taxi driver gained a further impression of the
young man with shoulder-length blond hair. Later, the
evidence of the taxi driver in court left no doubt to the
Crown prosecutor and the jury that the man who
impersonated Derrance Stevenson was David Szach. The
man, however, had impersonated David Szach

impersonating Derrance. The garbage bag contained the
pillow used in the killing along with some of Derrance’s
bloodstained clothes. The man was right when he pointed
to the garbage bag and said, ‘This is the most important
part.’
Gambardella had let the police know the following
day that Szach had talked about hiding a body in a
freezer to confound the time of death. In a statement to
the police on 10 June Gambardella seized a further
opportunity to implicate Szach in Derrance’s murder.
The plan worked. The police became convinced that
the taxi driver had given a lift to Szach, the killer, who
had enlisted the help of others in the cleaning up process.
The police scarcely gave consideration to other possible
suspects or to a gangster operation or to the reason why
others would cooperate with Szach if he had been the
killer. A heinous crime in the establishment required a
conviction and David Szach was their man.
At the committal proceedings Gambardella was
charged with being an accessory after the fact but let off
by the magistrate. Gambardella was not the man coming
out of Derrance’s premises at 6.40 pm. He had no part in
the killing, according to the Crown, just the cleaning up,
and that was easily set aside by the magistrate. Soon
after, Gambardella fled the country. He had gambled and
won but knew that his winning streak as a sexual
predator had come to an end. He was in danger from not
only the police but also from his criminal associates.
For the police and the Crown, everything had to fit in
with the killing having taken place in the 5.30 to 6.40 pm
time span and that Szach returned to the premises to help
in cleaning up, and was subsequently taken to the city
centre by the taxi driver. Because of mistaken or
fabricated evidence, the timing of events — Dr Manock’s
time of death, the time the body could have been out of

the freezer, the timing of Szach’s refund at the bus
station, the arrival time at Szach’s family home, the pickup
time by the taxi driver, Szach’s arrival time at Port
Wakefield and at Kingoonya — all fitted together to form
a case against Szach, as reconstructed by the police and
detailed by the Crown prosecutor to the jury.
The jury swallowed the baits, along with a large
number of circumstantial extras thrown in for good
measure — all presented by the Crown and given further
credibility by the judge in his pointed remarks. Elliott
Johnston’s portrayal of mystery and reasonable doubt fell
by the wayside. The ‘united force of circumstantial
evidence’ misled the jury. The numbers of fibres and rays
of light proved too many; the jigsaw pieces fitted
together. David Szach had no chance.

 

[Kurve]

You also think the Family killed Derrance.

I never said that. Right now I think Szach killed Derrance, it was personal and it was messy but there could have been quite a few people who wanted Derrance dead regardless. He only had forty people show up at his funeral, I think that says something for a man in his position, he was toxic.

Only way I can see another person's involvement, is if Derrance saw trouble coming, ran for his gun and it was taken off him. A professional job doesn't work like that.

I agree generally with Bits post above.

 

[Kurve]

The evidence, from the previous
day, Sunday afternoon, at Ron Strickland’s place where
Derrance slept on David Szach’s lap for half an hour,
suggests an intimate relationship, unlikely to change over
the next day. When asked by Elliott Johnston if there had
been any show of animosity or tension on that day
between them, Ron Strickland said he had not noticed
any and that they were ‘very good friends’.

I wondered when Ron Strickland might show up here. He admitted to buying pr0n from Derrance.

 

[Kurve]

He was also placed at BVE's house some weeks after abduction.

Who placed Kelvin at BVEs house weeks after the abduction, Mr B? Thanks to Mr B for helping them get a conviction on BVE but I think he would have said anything. He was a police pleaser and they locked his statement in committing to Kelvin being alive for five weeks.

If he was alive for five weeks in that ordinary little house, why wasn't his mother charged as an accessory? I'd bet quite a bit of money that he wasn't and that he was gone before BVE went back to work. Another location? Who's going to jump out and take the newsreaders son in? It wasn't a red hot situation, it was white. Cops couldn't find any evidence of Kelvin being at another location because there wasn't another alive location.

BVE got the freezer idea from watching Szach's trial or with inside information. And it did confound the prosecution's timeline somewhat. Without the fibres and BVEs hair a conviction would be doubtful imo.

 

[PaulSubetro]

I never said that. Right now I think Szach killed Derrance, it was personal and it was messy but there could have been quite a few people who wanted Derrance dead regardless. He only had forty people show up at his funeral, I think that says something for a man in his position, he was toxic.

Only way I can see another person's involvement, is if Derrance saw trouble coming, ran for his gun and it was taken off him. A professional job doesn't work like that.

I agree generally with Bits post above.

Okay, I'm confused. You think it's all linked in but Szach killed Derrance. So how is it linked? Why would someone (or a group of people) need to silence Barnes?

 

[Kurve]

Okay, I'm confused. You think it's all linked in but Szach killed Derrance. So how is it linked? Why would someone (or a group of people) need to silence Barnes?

I think Gambardella is the link to the family, not necessarily Derrance but if we knew who was at his parties we'd have a better idea.

If it was Barnes at legal aid the next morning and he was with Gambardella cleaning up Derrance's murder, Gambardella would want him silenced.

 

[PaulSubetro]

Who placed Kelvin at BVEs house weeks after the abduction, Mr B? Thanks to Mr B for helping them get a conviction on BVE but I think he would have said anything. He was a police pleaser and they locked his statement in committing to Kelvin being alive for five weeks.

If he was alive for five weeks in that ordinary little house, why wasn't his mother charged as an accessory? I'd bet quite a bit of money that he wasn't and that he was gone before BVE went back to work. Another location? Who's going to jump out and take the newsreaders son in? It wasn't a red hot situation, it was white. Cops couldn't find any evidence of Kelvin being at another location because there wasn't another alive location.

BVE got the freezer idea from watching Szach's trial. And it did confound the prosecution's timeline somewhat. Without the fibres and BVEs hair a conviction would be doubtful imo.

Forensics placed Kelvin at BVE's house weeks after the abduction.

Mr B called SAPOL anonymously WITHIN DAYS of Barnes being found and told them BVE was responsible. It wasn't until later they traced who made that call and they approached Mr B. Mr B told them a lot of things about BVE that during the course of their investigation were found to be accurate.

Forensics and autopsy told them Kelvin was held alive for approximately 5 weeks. Mr B never said anything about this.

He wasn't kept in BVE's house the whole time. BVE seemingly took him there for some reason. Probably for a night while Mum was away.

There WAS another location. Common sense tells us that. They just couldn't find it.

There is no evidence of a freezer being used with the Family murders.

You seem to be disputing known evidence and common sense. Not only was BVE proven scientifically to be involved in Kelvin's murder, testimony from Mr B plus Turtur plus TP's diaries are all consistent.