Unsolved The Family Murders

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Unsolved - The Family Murders - MEDIA

This thread may be used to post the Family Murders media related content. To include press and gathered photographs from various sources. Please feel free to post but as this is a no discussion thread, comments will be deleted or moved at discretion. WHO'S WHO VICTIMS AB - Alan Barnes 16yo...
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Kurve said:
If you know her name and what area/suburb she grew up in, someone could try the local catholic school on facebook given she's buried in the catho section. I've found someone that way.
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We know her name both pre and post transition. We know where her sisters and brothers went to school. I assume she transitioned after she left school. I’m not sure what other info we could get.

I’ve dug deep online and both she and Novak have almost no online presence. Novak died in 2014, Firman in 2008. Novak at least may have been on Facebook but I can't find her.
 
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John Barnes said:
That’s why I think the cops were a joke when it came to this and the reason I hold up 4 fingers . The first informal interview may have been nothing more the a phone call and no notes were taken it just says they talked to bve re : Barnes murder . If I was bve I would have cleaned house right there . After the interview about Neil I would have been shaking in my boots . Two interviews one formal and it’s all like have a nice day . They spent more time interviewing mom then bve and they pushed mom hard on questions yet not poor bve . ( dogs )


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
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The lack of intensity investigating BVE and the softly, softly approach during interviews is bewildering. Either investigating officers were incompetent or pressure was applied from above eg: you can interview BVE but these are the only questions you can ask or other parties were present during interviews to make sure pressure was not applied. Are these scenario's possible? If so who do you think was controlling the investigation?
 
Dell43 said:
The lack of intensity investigating BVE and the softly, softly approach during interviews is bewildering. Either investigating officers were incompetent or pressure was applied from above eg: you can interview BVE but these are the only questions you can ask or other parties were present during interviews to make sure pressure was not applied. Are these scenario's possible? If so who do you think was controlling the investigation?
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Back in the 80s the police were still using phone books thumped over the head as incentive but today an interview approach is made more on knowing the personality type they're dealing with. He'd be a psychopath, good luck using any tricks on one of those but more likely to get somewhere pandering to his ego provided he didn't catch on.

Being gay or trans back then wasn't easy, it was a lot harder than it is today. They didn't make it if they didn't know how to look after themselves and roll with the punches. They grew up tough or they perished. I'm thinking a hard approach on BVE may have been less likely to succeed in him giving anything away? IMO.
 
Can a coronoer's investigation be done. "We find it most likely, these people abducted this person, he was taken to this address, he was most likely killed by...." etc. And in doing so, remove the suppression orders. Offer Turtur immunity, Mr B a conviction but no jail time.
 

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JezMez said:
Can a coronoer's investigation be done. "We find it most likely, these people abducted this person, he was taken to this address, he was most likely killed by...." etc. And in doing so, remove the suppression orders. Offer Turtur immunity, Mr B a conviction but no jail time.
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There has already been a coroner’s inquest. Not sure if they can re-open without new evidence. Here’s one report of proceedings.

 
I have a connection with Pru's family and can probably answer respectful questions here to the best of my knowledge.

I'm not comfortable with her father's headstone pics being posted here though, as he has done nothing wrong. Maybe we can refrain from posting his details as it isn't respectful or relevant.

I am not an admirer of Pru. I believe the key to the whole investigation was ignored and subsequently lost when when police incompetence resulted in the peripheral players not being pressured. They had vital information which could have resulted in convictions other than BVE. They pretty well knew it all.

I think we need to recognize that Pru's background is useless and irrelevant now, peculiar as it may have been. She is dead. Her family are all in total denial that any wrongs were done. I have no doubts that family dynamics shaped some of her life choices, but it is what it is.

I believe her involvement was much more than reports suggest, but what's the good now?

The key now is Turtur. He is alive and knows all. Why on earth is he still on the loose? Words fail me.
 
DropBearess said:
This thread is great reading. As an Adelaidean, I've followed this case very closely since it's beginning. I have a few different perspectives which might be of interest and might provoke some discussion.

I don't believe for a moment the first murder occured in 1979. I think this whole sordid caper was happening well before then. There are still many missing young men in Australia before and after these crimes who inexplicably disappeared and have never been found.

Strange things have happened in Adelaide from 1970 or before. Around that time runaways and semi-homeless kids would congregate in Rundle Street, with City Cross being their Hub at the time. There didn't seem to be many genuinely homeless kids in those days. They were mostly 15-19 year olds, mostly males. They frequently adopted aliases and their parents were usually searching frantically for them. Several came from Mildura or interstate. They couldn't get any benefits and were effectively non-persons. Churches would assist them from time to time, with their young people offering friendship and peer support. Needless to say, they inevitably found themselves in trouble, usually break and enter etc. Violence was rare. For this they would find themselves in McNally Training Centre at Magill, where they learned all sorts of things and usually exited with homosexual experience.

There began the strange situations. These kids would be released with no verifiable homes and dodgy people to stay with. They would end up back in City Cross and church workers would try to reconnect with them. Then some of them began to mysteriously disappear for days at a time with no-one knowing and few caring where they were. They would reappear for a while, having been living with "some people", then vanish again. Often they would be wearing new, very modern clothes and have new haircuts, as opposed to their previous poverty. They would emerge looking very attractive, with someone having made the most of them. They were uncontactable when at these places and the whole thing was very mysterious. Volunteers were met with hostility over the phone if they managed to make contact. It gradually came about that the 'kind' people who were hosting these street kids were transgender and/or gay and lived a very high life. Their homes were located in places such as Stepney, St. Peters, Hackney, Gilberton and Norwood. The Buckingham Arms was their hang-out at the time.

At this time, it was difficult to ascertain how street kids were making connections with these people. Then it was gradually discovered that some of these creeps worked in central Adelaide in very mediocre jobs, in places where homeless boys might frequent. They had various nick-names. The boys were then introduced by these procurers to the wealthy gay men and transgenders. A couple of well-known stores come to mind.

It seemed the homeless youths were in awe of and afraid of these people. They would return to them for a time, then come back to the streets. They would make snide jokes to each other about sore bottoms and various other ailments but would display their expensive belongings to others and go back for more. But there were a number who were very afraid and in pain from medical conditions they would not discuss, caused during their strange absences. There is no way of knowing what eventually happened to these young people.

At this time in Adelaide there was a totally inadequate support system for runaway youth and no way of identification. Youth support workers were hopelessly naive, as indeed were many police at the time. No-one had any real idea that there were actually people in existence who did these things. It's hard to believe there are not plenty of people who have information about these times.

Of course ages would not match all those suspects from 1979 onwards. But this scene definitely existed well before then and has obviously thrived since, with plenty of willing participants ready to change their sordid baton to the next team. There are people from the era described above who clearly could have been involved for many years.

I think that when trying to join the dots, we need to go way back. The more I learn about this case, the more I think delving more extensively into previous years might hold the key. And for what it's worth, I think the biggest mistake in the investigation was not putting much more pressure on Pru and co. at the time.
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Bit of a blast from the past. This is post #720 from Dec 2018 - about 13 months back.

Both Debi Marshall and the ebook say there is a link between Derrance's crew and The Family - but no one can find proof. I feel both are speculating but they would have had to have known each other. As BVE came through the system (into the gay scene), Derrance no doubt would have been prowling around any half-decent young newcomer.

I would love to know how BVE's network evolved, and what the relationships were like.
 
DropBearess said:
I am not an admirer of Pru. I believe the key to the whole investigation was ignored and subsequently lost when when police incompetence resulted in the peripheral players not being pressured. They had vital information which could have resulted in convictions other than BVE. They pretty well knew it all.

I believe her involvement was much more than reports suggest, but what's the good now?

The key now is Turtur. He is alive and knows all. Why on earth is he still on the loose? Words fail me.
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I agree. As much as the deceased players don't deserve a let off for things they've done, ultimately they're dead and of no real use to bringing anyone to justice as their stories have gone to the grave with them.

Turtur all but confirmed your suspicions about Pru and the other TGs in his interviews with Debi Marshall. He always refused to answer the question put to him that he was the one who would know when BvE and his crew were coming and got a room ready for them. But he did say that the main reason the TGs were willing to do what they did is because BvE was willing to give them some of his supply of sedatives in exchange for doing it in addition to occasionally allowing them to participate.

But what struck me was how confident he was to admit to drugging and raping young men and that a murder victim had been in his house. After all this time those lips were loosened and he spilled a lot of details. If police were to go hard at him and push him for more details, I reckon there's a decent chance you could get him to slip up. Even just repeating hearsay they've got on their records and seeing if Turtur corrects them could be valuable.

Turtur and possibly Mr B are the best bet I reckon. Turtur's probably way too talkative for the others' liking (I can't imagine how much they were probably bricking themselves when news articles started appearing) and Mr B has talked in the past.

Maybe even dangle a carrot at Mr B. Jamie Vlassakis got a lengthy prison term but also got a parole period allowed because he was willing to become the star witness. Mr B probably knows his immunity doesn't cover the whole story of his involvement. Maybe he'd be willing to talk for an agreement that if he's sent to prison he's eligible for parole at 80 or something (not that he'd necessarily get it but there's a chance).

I don't know how family members of the victims might feel about that. We can get John Barnes' opinion here obviously. John would you be willing to accept Turtur or Mr B getting some sort of deal to not be charged or get their charges reduced provided they stopped telling porkies and exposed everyone else so they could face charges?
 
JezMez said:
Bit of a blast from the past. This is post #720 from Dec 2018 - about 13 months back.

Both Debi Marshall and the ebook say there is a link between Derrance's crew and The Family - but no one can find proof. I feel both are speculating but they would have had to have known each other. As BVE came through the system (into the gay scene), Derrance no doubt would have been prowling around any half-decent young newcomer.

I would love to know how BVE's network evolved, and what the relationships were like.
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I suspect the link might be drug-related. Stevenson's side hustle was distributing heroin. His house was very well-known so I'd imagine he was first port of call for anyone in the gay scene who was looking for a hit of H. The TGs were off their faces on anything they could find a lot of the time according to Turtur. I don't recall him mentioning heroin but maybe others were using it as well?

BVE on the other hand is almost a small-time drug dealer when it comes to date rape drugs. He had access to a large supply of them (his doctor giving him drugs for his sleeping troubles) and would give the TGs some of his stash in exchange for letting him use their house for the Family attacks. With the emerging clubbing scene, I wonder if BVE became a bit of a contact for people wanting to score some roofies. You'd likely have some crossover of circles there with some people into drugs and having sex with people they shouldn't going to both at various times.

I'd imagine there would've at least been some acknowledgement even if it was on the down low of both what Stevenson was doing and what BVE was doing. Although where that places us with regard to saying Stevenson and BVE's crews were linked I'm not sure.

The only name I've heard thrown up in relation to both is Darko and it's ultra-suspiciously timed as well considering Szach had help covering up Stevenson's murder (likely from Gambardella and possibly Darko) and 2 weeks later Darko leaves Alan Barnes alone on Grand Junction Rd and BVE's crew just happens to be cruising by at that exact moment. The thing is though I've only ever heard Darko's name in relation to Alan's murder. I would've thought if he was a genuine part of BVE's crew his name would come up more often with relation to other murders/abductions
 
SquiffyRae said:
I agree. As much as the deceased players don't deserve a let off for things they've done, ultimately they're dead and of no real use to bringing anyone to justice as their stories have gone to the grave with them.

Turtur all but confirmed your suspicions about Pru and the other TGs in his interviews with Debi Marshall. He always refused to answer the question put to him that he was the one who would know when BvE and his crew were coming and got a room ready for them. But he did say that the main reason the TGs were willing to do what they did is because BvE was willing to give them some of his supply of sedatives in exchange for doing it in addition to occasionally allowing them to participate.

But what struck me was how confident he was to admit to drugging and raping young men and that a murder victim had been in his house. After all this time those lips were loosened and he spilled a lot of details. If police were to go hard at him and push him for more details, I reckon there's a decent chance you could get him to slip up. Even just repeating hearsay they've got on their records and seeing if Turtur corrects them could be valuable.

Turtur and possibly Mr B are the best bet I reckon. Turtur's probably way too talkative for the others' liking (I can't imagine how much they were probably bricking themselves when news articles started appearing) and Mr B has talked in the past.

Maybe even dangle a carrot at Mr B. Jamie Vlassakis got a lengthy prison term but also got a parole period allowed because he was willing to become the star witness. Mr B probably knows his immunity doesn't cover the whole story of his involvement. Maybe he'd be willing to talk for an agreement that if he's sent to prison he's eligible for parole at 80 or something (not that he'd necessarily get it but there's a chance).

I don't know how family members of the victims might feel about that. We can get John Barnes' opinion here obviously. John would you be willing to accept Turtur or Mr B getting some sort of deal to not be charged or get their charges reduced provided they stopped telling porkies and exposed everyone else so they could face charges?
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I thought Mr. B had passed away! I'm sure it was discussed in a earlier post. Can we please have clarification?
 
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SquiffyRae said:
I suspect the link might be drug-related. Stevenson's side hustle was distributing heroin. His house was very well-known so I'd imagine he was first port of call for anyone in the gay scene who was looking for a hit of H. The TGs were off their faces on anything they could find a lot of the time according to Turtur. I don't recall him mentioning heroin but maybe others were using it as well?

BVE on the other hand is almost a small-time drug dealer when it comes to date rape drugs. He had access to a large supply of them (his doctor giving him drugs for his sleeping troubles) and would give the TGs some of his stash in exchange for letting him use their house for the Family attacks. With the emerging clubbing scene, I wonder if BVE became a bit of a contact for people wanting to score some roofies. You'd likely have some crossover of circles there with some people into drugs and having sex with people they shouldn't going to both at various times.

I'd imagine there would've at least been some acknowledgement even if it was on the down low of both what Stevenson was doing and what BVE was doing. Although where that places us with regard to saying Stevenson and BVE's crews were linked I'm not sure.

The only name I've heard thrown up in relation to both is Darko and it's ultra-suspiciously timed as well considering Szach had help covering up Stevenson's murder (likely from Gambardella and possibly Darko) and 2 weeks later Darko leaves Alan Barnes alone on Grand Junction Rd and BVE's crew just happens to be cruising by at that exact moment. The thing is though I've only ever heard Darko's name in relation to Alan's murder. I would've thought if he was a genuine part of BVE's crew his name would come up more often with relation to other murders/abductions
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This is where it gets really grey.

We don't know for sure DS was dealing H
Turtur said he was using "everything inc. H", but so often people use drug use as an excuse
Firman ended up an H addict, but we don't when she started using
Mr B also ended up an H addict. We also don't know when he started using
It's likely BVE used his drugs to either directly drug young men, or to use in exchange for help and compliance
Darko doesn't have to be part of BVE's crew. Neil Muir was allegedly helping BVE procure young men and I wouldn't say he was part of BVE's crew - just a guy BVE sometimes associated with and BVE exploited his drug addiction. Darko could have been a young Neil Muir. Darko is the other person they need to speak. I'd be offering him immunity.
 
Bits said:
Seems like there were quite a few coworkers who knew he was “off”. Brian Gant (drag/trans who lived at the Alberton house for a while) worked there and was in a relationship with BvE. Gant’s sister worked there too. Gay pr0n was found in the work car that BvE used and a stash was found in a shed. He was found onsite with a young boy at least once. His manager knew of various “indiscretions”. Probably not enough to go to police with for each individual instance I guess.
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Brian Gant has died iirc but his sister probably hasn't. She needs roping in again and the right kind of pressure needs to go on imo along with Jacqui the nurse.
 
Dell43 said:
I thought Mr. B had passed away! I'm sure it was discussed in a earlier post. Can we please have clarification?
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There are differing versions.
http://netk.net.au/SA/SA37.asp This is an old article by Nigel Hunt in The Advertiser saying he died in Sydney several years ago. This is the only reference to his death that I can find.

I’ve been digging and can’t find any death, funeral, memorial, cremation etc records anywhere.

Another version is that he is not dead and the name that is commonly mentioned for him is incorrect. He is thought to have been in Sydney at some stage, then there is mention of him driving buses in Queensland. This is info from various media reports with no sources available.

It is also possible (no proof at all, this is pure speculation) that he has changed his name or is in witness protection.
 
JezMez said:
Charlie,

Is it possible this is one of the TG's? Does the attire match their appearance?

Of course this could be Nurse Jacquie, or a number of BVE's work colleagues.
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Would be interesting to hear Charlies comments on this..I have come across a possible pic of Prue with her family just prior to her death..Before I post I am awaiting a 100% confirmation from a reliable source..Naturally the family will be removed from the Pic if it is confirmed that it is her/him.
 
Kurve said:
Brian Gant has died iirc but his sister probably hasn't. She needs roping in again and the right kind of pressure needs to go on imo along with Jacqui the nurse.
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Jacqui the nurse and Peejay (whoever he is - another mystery) were supposedly in the car when Richard K was taken. They were extensively questioned.

I think the problem is that all the people involved, dead and alive, are known, but there is no evidence that would stand up in court. Even with Turtur, who admits he r*ped drugged young men and doesn’t know how they gave consent, there would possibly still need to be proven victims. I’m not familiar enough with the applicable legal issues. Also, he may have been granted immunity. We don’t know. Debi Marshall either didn’t ask him or didn’t publish his response.
 
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Sinatra1915 said:
Would be interesting to hear Charlies comments on this..I have come across a possible pic of Prue with her family just prior to her death..Before I post I am awaiting a 100% confirmation from a reliable source..Naturally the family will be removed from the Pic if it is confirmed that it is her/him.
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PM It to Dropbearess maybe? She knows the family and has met Pru.
 

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