Unsolved The Family Murders

[Kurve]

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The Who's Who List

• #2,647

VICTIMS
AB - Alan Barnes 16yo
NM - Neil Muir 25yo
PS - Peter Stogneff 14yo
ML - Mark Langley 18yo
RK- Richard Kelvin 15yo

• DS - Derrance Stevenson high risk lifestyle pornographer and criminal lawyer shot to death
• DS - David Szach convicted for the murder of criminal lawyer Derrence Stevenson

DECEASED
DSD - Denis St Denis hairdresser
RBD - Richard Dutton Brown the magistrate
PF - Pru Firman
SN - Sarah Novak
BG - Brian Gant
NB - Noel Brook also known as Di Di
TP - Trevor Peters of the diaries
PM - Dr. Peter Leslie Millhouse acquitted for the murder of Neil Muir

LIVING until further notice
BVE - Bevan von Einem also known as 'Bevbang' to inner circle and 'Vonnie' in the prison system
Mr R - The businessman name suppressed
SGW - Dr Stephen George Woodards
Mr. B - Teenage prostitute and informant name suppressed
JL - Jacquie the nurse mentioned in the ebook as a good friend of and who rented a unit close to BVEs unit we assume name suppressed?
LT - Lewis Turtur also known as 'Louie'
A - The older teenage boy Peter Stogneff's parents feel may have had something to do with their son's abduction
RR - Raymond Rozankowski who was a friend of BVE and lived in the same street as A

DK - Darko Kastellan assistant to Gambardella
GG - Gino Gambardella chiropractor fled to Italy

Out of Sight - The Untold Story of Adelaide's Gay Hate Murders

The Cases of Forensic Pathologist Colin Manock

Use this thread below to lodge media, maps and photos for quick reference.

Unsolved - The Family Murders - MEDIA

This thread may be used to post the Family Murders media related content. To include press and gathered photographs from various sources. Please feel free to post but as this is a no discussion thread, comments will be deleted or moved at discretion. WHO'S WHO VICTIMS AB - Alan Barnes 16yo...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[bobk1988]

Forgive my naivety, but were attitudes towards sex and rape and drug use different in the late 70's early 80s, or are these people just the worst of the worst, depraved sociopathic/psychopathic etc., because I can't fathom abducting people against their will, drugging, raping and then releasing them, and on a regular basis, almost as a hobby. And no one victim ever spoke out. A lot of people were involved and knew about the rapes and murders. I couldn't live with myself. Dark, dark people.

In Toowoomba in the 70's there was a group of men who would drive around at night and abduct and rape women, until a pair of nurses were brutally gang r*ped and bludgeoned to death in the bush. No one has ever been held responsible for their murders either, although the police know exactly who did it but don't have enough evidence to prosecute. Seems attitudes towards sex in 70s was far different than today?

Have always thought Dr Millhouse was guilty and was lucky to get off. Is the Debbi Marshall book worth buying?

 

[jason_recliner]

Forgive my naivety, but were attitudes towards sex and rape and drug use different in the late 70's early 80s, or are these people just the worst of the worst, depraved sociopathic/psychopathic etc., because I can't fathom abducting people against their will, drugging, raping and then releasing them, and on a regular basis, almost as a hobby. And no one victim ever spoke out. A lot of people were involved and knew about the rapes and murders. I couldn't live with myself. Dark, dark people.

In Toowoomba in the 70's there was a group of men who would drive around at night and abduct and rape women, until a pair of nurses were brutally gang r*ped and bludgeoned to death in the bush. No one has ever been held responsible for their murders either, although the police know exactly who did it but don't have enough evidence to prosecute. Seems attitudes towards sex in 70s was far different than today?

Have always thought Dr Millhouse was guilty and was lucky to get off. Is the Debbi Marshall book worth buying?

Drugging and raping people was not generally considered acceptable by Adelaide residents in the 70s and 80s, as far as I know.

 

[Soldier Of Misfortune]

Have always thought Dr Millhouse was guilty and was lucky to get off. Is the Debbi Marshall book worth buying?

Gotta agree on Millhouse - I also believe he was involved, with other(s) in Muir's death.

Debi Marshall book is good, not great - there's some really interesting stuff with Turtur and Manock, there's also a bunch of fluff/filler about Debi herself that I could have lived without. (I don't really need to know how bad her psychiatrist is telling her that she could have been killed talking to someone in a jail).

 

[bobk1988]

Mr R has lived in that house a long time. One wonders if he just likes living there, or is there a more sinister motive for staying put, concealing something in the backyard/basement perhaps? The outline of the filled -in pool can still be seen on google maps. I'm still bewildered by the cavalier attitudes towards kidnap/rape/murder of those involved, but then again, I'm not a psychopath.

 

[bobk1988]

The fact that Dr Millhouse felt he had to make mention that he was “ a totally inadequate surgeon" has always seemed to me to be an attempt to divert attention away from himself. Surely, as a doctor, he would have had a better understanding of the human body and knowledge of dissection than the rest of us and despite his apparent self-admitted inadequacy, he most certainly could have been capable of calving up poor Neil Muir.

 

[Soldier Of Misfortune]

The fact that Dr Millhouse felt he had to make mention that he was “ a totally inadequate surgeon" has always seemed to me to be an attempt to divert attention away from himself. Surely, as a doctor, he would have had a better understanding of the human body and knowledge of dissection than the rest of us and despite his apparent self-admitted inadequacy, he most certainly could have been capable of calving up poor Neil Muir.

from Dissected:

• A nurse based in Gladstone witnessed Millhouse assisting with surgery on many occasions
• He worked 11 months as a treating physician in an emergency ward

He may not have been a lead surgeon but he'd been involved in surgery and potentially would know his way around.

 

[nominal_port_supporter]

Gotta agree on Millhouse - I also believe he was involved, with other(s) in Muir's death.

Debi Marshall book is good, not great - there's some really interesting stuff with Turtur and Manock, there's also a bunch of fluff/filler about Debi herself that I could have lived without. (I don't really need to know how bad her psychiatrist is telling her that she could have been killed talking to someone in a jail).

What makes you think that about Millhouse? The sense I've always got from this thread is that he was adjacent to the core "Family" members but not really involved with them closely, although his movements on the day of Muir's death are obviously suspicious, so perhaps he did have a deeper involvement with the murder.

 

[Soldier Of Misfortune]

What makes you think that about Millhouse? The sense I've always got from this thread is that he was adjacent to the core "Family" members but not really involved with them closely, although his movements on the day of Muir's death are obviously suspicious, so perhaps he did have a deeper involvement with the murder.

I don't think he was an ongoing core member or that he was necessarily involved in any other deaths but there appears to be a lot of smokescreen in his excuses and obviously made up stuff like the car running out of petrol and the cleaning of the house.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Forgive my naivety, but were attitudes towards sex and rape and drug use different in the late 70's early 80s, or are these people just the worst of the worst, depraved sociopathic/psychopathic etc., because I can't fathom abducting people against their will, drugging, raping and then releasing them, and on a regular basis, almost as a hobby. And no one victim ever spoke out. A lot of people were involved and knew about the rapes and murders. I couldn't live with myself. Dark, dark people.

In Toowoomba in the 70's there was a group of men who would drive around at night and abduct and rape women, until a pair of nurses were brutally gang r*ped and bludgeoned to death in the bush. No one has ever been held responsible for their murders either, although the police know exactly who did it but don't have enough evidence to prosecute. Seems attitudes towards sex in 70s was far different than today?

Have always thought Dr Millhouse was guilty and was lucky to get off. Is the Debbi Marshall book worth buying?

South Australia has always had a seedy underbelly of sicko's doing sick shit.
I've often wondered wether being Australia's only true free settlement created an idea that any seedy freaks fleeing the UK could hide out and continue their depravities here.

Throw in a young pollie, who chose a man facing the death penalty for a crime against a child to oppose the death penalty, who would go on to be Premier not once, but twice, covering a large part of the time when crimes against children occurred in SA, and was believed to be either gay or bisexual, its hardly suprising that the seedy underbelly of the 70's and 80's thought they could do as they pleased.
Not suggesting that he was in any way involved, just that perhaps his progressive policies may have been considered a green light to certain groups during that era.

 

[bobk1988]

I thought about Millhouse because I came across his obituary and a member of Neil Muir's family had commented that she hoped he was in hell for the Family murders. So Neil's family believes he was responsible.

 

[Butters and Pepper]

L

Forgive my naivety, but were attitudes towards sex and rape and drug use different in the late 70's early 80s, or are these people just the worst of the worst, depraved sociopathic/psychopathic etc., because I can't fathom abducting people against their will, drugging, raping and then releasing them, and on a regular basis, almost as a hobby. And no one victim ever spoke out. A lot of people were involved and knew about the rapes and murders. I couldn't live with myself. Dark, dark people.

In Toowoomba in the 70's there was a group of men who would drive around at night and abduct and rape women, until a pair of nurses were brutally gang r*ped and bludgeoned to death in the bush. No one has ever been held responsible for their murders either, although the police know exactly who did it but don't have enough evidence to prosecute. Seems attitudes towards sex in 70s was far different than today?

Have always thought Dr Millhouse was guilty and was lucky to get off. Is the Debbi Marshall book worth buying?

My personal theory - and it doesn't just relate to SA - is that it was almost a copycat scenario, whereby similar crimes occurring overseas (mainly USA) had started to become publicised throughout the 1970s, and it triggered something within the local offenders.

Mor specifically, Gacy was arrested in late 1978, and the first known local victim was killed in 1979.

A few years earlier Dean Corll was arrested, whilst William Bonin was wreaking havoc throught the 70s until his capture in 1980

The above targeted boys/men, but in the 1970s there were also prominent serial killers such as Bundy, and locally the Truro murders.

So I'm thinking that by the late 1970s with an increasingly connected world media, it was something that influenced likeminded individuals locally.

I've often wondered too whether the murder of George Duncan had any effect on BVE, given he was literally in the vicinity at the time of the attacks on gay men around the River Torrens in the early 70s.

 

[bobk1988]

Something makes me think BVE saw policemen throw George Duncan in the river and he has something on them - blackmail- which accounts for the privileges he receives in jail.

 

[Tanned]

South Australia has always had a seedy underbelly of sicko's doing sick shit.
I've often wondered wether being Australia's only true free settlement created an idea that any seedy freaks fleeing the UK could hide out and continue their depravities here.

Throw in a young pollie, who chose a man facing the death penalty for a crime against a child to oppose the death penalty, who would go on to be Premier not once, but twice, covering a large part of the time when crimes against children occurred in SA, and was believed to be either gay or bisexual, its hardly suprising that the seedy underbelly of the 70's and 80's thought they could do as they pleased.
Not suggesting that he was in any way involved, just that perhaps his progressive policies may have been considered a green light to certain groups during that era.

Adelaide was established and run by largely if not entirely Anglican and Freemason men and naturally there will grow a culture counter to the extreme conservatism. Throw in a murder in the River Torrens by people in authority that everyone knows who they were but never prosecuted and you have a shift in power suddenly where the progressives have something big over the conservatives. Laws pertaining to homosexuality are changed and no doubt police are wary of being seen to continue harassment. A sense of emancipation would have ensued from the seismic shift and people found themselves in a very different society. And the powerful and evil among them obviously took full advantage.

 

[bobk1988]

We see it today in America; Trump as president allowed people who shared his prejudices to be comfortable in those prejudices and subsequently confident in exercising their hatred and bigotry.

 

[bobk1988]

Adelaide is small, and was much smaller back then, and the gay community even smaller and cliquey; everyone knows or knows of everyone else and it's the same today. Like BVE showing off his proclivities to Denis St Denis with the photos in his salon, a lot of gay men are prone to be incorrigible gossips and showoffs, especially pertaining to their sex lives.

You can't tell me a lot more people in the gay community then didn't know of what was going on, even if they weren't involved. Between gossip, hearsay. rumors etc. I'd be willing to bet a lot of people in the gay community had heard of the antics of BVE, Tutur, the transgender girls, Mr R., etc. around Adelaide at the time, and that a few are still alive.

While gay men may be willing to share all and sundry about their sex lives amongst each other, there is an unspoken code of silence that doesn't breach the wall between the gay and straight worlds. Gay men protect themselves and each other by staying quiet about their private lives, out of necessity, even for safety, and this would have been heightened in old conservative Adeliade in the days when homosexuality was still illegal. I'm certain there's still plenty of people not involved who know about these crimes.

 

[bobk1988]

Sometimes I think that BVE's motivations weren't necessarily all about sex, but also class. Classist BVE felt insecure about his place in the social order of old snobby, conservative Adelaide and even in homosexual circles wanted to be amongst those he deemed of high class. By procuring drugs and boys for the likes of doctors, solicitors, businessmen etc. BVE was trying to ingratiate himself with who he felt were the local gay aristocracy. He probably thought the more daring and depraved his antics were, the more he would curry favor with these people.

The narcissist in BVE would have loved to have told people about the evil and perverted things he was doing. He thought he was one of them, proving he was just as smart - they in turn probably just used him, perhaps even laughed at him behind his back. BVE was a sycophant. Did he know who Richard Kelvin was before he abducted him? Did he consider it a notch in his belt to kidnap the good-looking straight son of a local media celebrity?

Did the snobbish BVE allow himself to kill the boys because, with the exception of Kelvin, he believed the others to be no more than lower-class riff raff? I doubt he considered Tutur and the transgender girls his friends or social equals, he was probably just using them to attract the boys into the car and for their house as a place to take them.

 

[John Barnes]

Sometimes I think that BVE's motivations weren't necessarily all about sex, but also class. Classist BVE felt insecure about his place in the social order of old snobby, conservative Adelaide and even in homosexual circles wanted to be amongst those he deemed of high class. By procuring drugs and boys for the likes of doctors, solicitors, businessmen etc. BVE was trying to ingratiate himself with who he felt were the local gay aristocracy. He probably thought the more daring and depraved his antics were, the more he would curry favor with these people.

The narcissist in BVE would have loved to have told people about the evil and perverted things he was doing. He thought he was one of them, proving he was just as smart - they in turn probably just used him, perhaps even laughed at him behind his back. BVE was a sycophant. Did he know who Richard Kelvin was before he abducted him? Did he consider it a notch in his belt to kidnap the good-looking straight son of a local media celebrity?

Did the snobbish BVE allow himself to kill the boys because, with the exception of Kelvin, he believed the others to be no more than lower-class riff raff? I doubt he considered Tutur and the transgender girls his friends or social equals, he was probably just using them to attract the boys into the car and for their house as a place to take them.

I don’t think bve knew who Richard was when he took him but the day after or even later that night bve knew . The groups that bve hung around were all into the same thing, drugging and rape of young straight men . I believe that the only reason bve won’t talk is the power that gives him over the victims families and he can only dig himself in deeper .


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Nemisis]

Sometimes I think that BVE's motivations weren't necessarily all about sex, but also class. Classist BVE felt insecure about his place in the social order of old snobby, conservative Adelaide and even in homosexual circles wanted to be amongst those he deemed of high class. By procuring drugs and boys for the likes of doctors, solicitors, businessmen etc. BVE was trying to ingratiate himself with who he felt were the local gay aristocracy. He probably thought the more daring and depraved his antics were, the more he would curry favor with these people.

The narcissist in BVE would have loved to have told people about the evil and perverted things he was doing. He thought he was one of them, proving he was just as smart - they in turn probably just used him, perhaps even laughed at him behind his back. BVE was a sycophant. Did he know who Richard Kelvin was before he abducted him? Did he consider it a notch in his belt to kidnap the good-looking straight son of a local media celebrity?

Did the snobbish BVE allow himself to kill the boys because, with the exception of Kelvin, he believed the others to be no more than lower-class riff raff? I doubt he considered Tutur and the transgender girls his friends or social equals, he was probably just using them to attract the boys into the car and for their house as a place to take them.

Bevan went to an elitist private school in Adelaide. He was bullied at school for being so effeminate. He loved the choir though.

 

[Butters and Pepper]

L

Bevan went to an elitist private school in Adelaide. He was bullied at school for being so effeminate. He loved the choir though.

Can't remember where I heard/read about it, but bve has stated his father (perhaps involved in German army in WW2?) was a particularly brutal person which had a considerable effect on his development in his early years.

(that probably sounds like I'm excusing his behavior, Im certainly not.....but my intent is to just bring up something that I'd heard him say, given not much is discussed/revealed about his early childhood).

 

[johnymac1]

L
Can't remember where I heard/read about it, but bve has stated his father (perhaps involved in German army in WW2?) was a particularly brutal person which had a considerable effect on his development in his early years.

(that probably sounds like I'm excusing his behavior, Im certainly not.....but my intent is to just bring up something that I'd heard him say, given not much is discussed/revealed about his early childhood).

Violence breeds Violence, you find a whole bunch of killers were exposed to the same treatment from their fathers.
The offenders all born around the 40's with violent fathers retuning from war. Derick Percy springs to mind and maybe Deiter Pfennig. The Beaumont killer would probably fit into the same situation although his identity remains unknown.

 

[bobk1988]

There are also plenty of people who are brutalised and traumatised by their parents as children who don't go on to abuse others.

 

[Zebo]

Bevan went to an elitist private school in Adelaide. He was bullied at school for being so effeminate. He loved the choir though.

I don't think Thebarton Boys was considered 'an elitist private school'.

 

[Zebo]

L
Can't remember where I heard/read about it, but bve has stated his father (perhaps involved in German army in WW2?) was a particularly brutal person which had a considerable effect on his development in his early years.

(that probably sounds like I'm excusing his behavior, Im certainly not.....but my intent is to just bring up something that I'd heard him say, given not much is discussed/revealed about his early childhood).

Hia father was born in Australia. Can you cite your source that he went overseas during the war and enlisted for the enemy?

 

[jason_recliner]

There are also plenty of people who are brutalised and traumatised by their parents as children who don't go on to abuse others.

Of course, but abused children are far more likely to grow up to become abusers than those from loving, caring, well-adjusted families/carers.

 

[Nemisis]

I don't think Thebarton Boys was considered 'an elitist private school'.

I understood his high school years were at Pulteney Grammar