Unsolved The Family Murders

[Kurve]

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The Who's Who List

• #2,647

VICTIMS
AB - Alan Barnes 16yo
NM - Neil Muir 25yo
PS - Peter Stogneff 14yo
ML - Mark Langley 18yo
RK- Richard Kelvin 15yo

• DS - Derrance Stevenson high risk lifestyle pornographer and criminal lawyer shot to death
• DS - David Szach convicted for the murder of criminal lawyer Derrence Stevenson

DECEASED
DSD - Denis St Denis hairdresser
RBD - Richard Dutton Brown the magistrate
PF - Pru Firman
SN - Sarah Novak
BG - Brian Gant
NB - Noel Brook also known as Di Di
TP - Trevor Peters of the diaries
PM - Dr. Peter Leslie Millhouse acquitted for the murder of Neil Muir

LIVING until further notice
BVE - Bevan von Einem also known as 'Bevbang' to inner circle and 'Vonnie' in the prison system
Mr R - The businessman name suppressed
SGW - Dr Stephen George Woodards
Mr. B - Teenage prostitute and informant name suppressed
JL - Jacquie the nurse mentioned in the ebook as a good friend of and who rented a unit close to BVEs unit we assume name suppressed?
LT - Lewis Turtur also known as 'Louie'
A - The older teenage boy Peter Stogneff's parents feel may have had something to do with their son's abduction
RR - Raymond Rozankowski who was a friend of BVE and lived in the same street as A

DK - Darko Kastellan assistant to Gambardella
GG - Gino Gambardella chiropractor fled to Italy

Out of Sight - The Untold Story of Adelaide's Gay Hate Murders

The Cases of Forensic Pathologist Colin Manock

Use this thread below to lodge media, maps and photos for quick reference.

Unsolved - The Family Murders - MEDIA

This thread may be used to post the Family Murders media related content. To include press and gathered photographs from various sources. Please feel free to post but as this is a no discussion thread, comments will be deleted or moved at discretion. WHO'S WHO VICTIMS AB - Alan Barnes 16yo...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Zebo]

I understood his high school years were at Pulteney Grammar

They were not.

 

[bobk1988]

Going out on a limb here but is it possible that Neil Muir was actually a part of The Family, albeit not necessarily involved in the murders. We know he was most probably a rent boy giving sexual favors to Millhouse and BVE in exchange for money /drugs. The expensive antique ring he was seen wearing we can assume came from Mr. R., so that's three suspects he knows and, apparently, he had been friends with one of the transgender girls for a few years. Their connection could have been drugs, however, it seems strange that a young straight man in the 70s would be friends with a transgender woman. Remember at the time these trans women were considered social outcasts.

Was Muir straight? He had a seven- year- old daughter when he was killed and apparently he was engaged to be married, but that doesn't necessarily make him straight. Was he bi? Was Neil Muir transgender? We've heard from his sister and friends that he had an androgynous, even effeminate appearance; long hair and slight of body, a 'pretty' man etc. Did BVE use Muir dressed as a woman to lure young guys into his car?

Muir was older than the other victims, they being in late adolescence, he a young man. It has been suggested he was killed for snitching to cops, does that explain why his was the most brutal of the murders, one of their own had done the dirty on them? Was the mutilation an attempt at post-mortem sex change? Was he just providing sexual services for Derrance Stevenson or was he a part of his deviant hobbies? Food for thought.

 

[jason_recliner]

Going out on a limb here but is it possible that Neil Muir was actually a part of The Family, albeit not necessarily involved in the murders. We know he was most probably a rent boy giving sexual favors to Millhouse and BVE in exchange for money /drugs. The expensive antique ring he was seen wearing we can assume came from Mr. R., so that's three suspects he knows and, apparently, he had been friends with one of the transgender girls for a few years. Their connection could have been drugs, however, it seems strange that a young straight man in the 70s would be friends with a transgender woman. Remember at the time these trans women were considered social outcasts.

Was Muir straight? He had a seven- year- old daughter when he was killed and apparently he was engaged to be married, but that doesn't necessarily make him straight. Was he bi? Was Neil Muir transgender? We've heard from his sister and friends that he had an androgynous, even effeminate appearance; long hair and slight of body, a 'pretty' man etc. Did BVE use Muir dressed as a woman to lure young guys into his car?

Muir was older than the other victims, they being in late adolescence, he a young man. It has been suggested he was killed for snitching to cops, does that explain why his was the most brutal of the murders, one of their own had done the dirty on them? Was the mutilation an attempt at post-mortem sex change? Was he just providing sexual services for Derrance Stevenson or was he a part of his deviant hobbies? Food for thought.

Why do you assume he was given a ring by the owner of a clock making shop?

 

[bobk1988]

Why do you assume he was given a ring by the owner of a clock making shop?

Mr R. also deals in antiques

 

[jason_recliner]

Mr R. also deals in antiques

I didn't know that. Can you provide your evidence he's an antique jewellery dealer please?

 

[bobk1988]

I didn't know that. Can you provide your evidence he's an antique jewellery dealer please?

It was mentioned in a post, I'm trying to find it. There's more than just clocks in the shop

 

[bobk1988]

I didn't know that. Can you provide your evidence he's an antique jewellery dealer please?

• #3,480,
• #3,481
• #442

 

[bobk1988]

I didn't know that. Can you provide your evidence he's an antique jewellery dealer please?

I could show you a link describing the shop, but it would be revealing his name, and we're not allowed to do that. I'm sure with some further reading and sleuthing you could find it.

 

[Butters and Pepper]

Hia father was born in Australia. Can you cite your source that he went overseas during the war and enlisted for the enemy?

My sincere apologies, I was going from memory on what I could recall. The bit about the German army obviously is something that I had inadvertently embellished when trying to recall

 

[Butters and Pepper]

Violence breeds Violence, you find a whole bunch of killers were exposed to the same treatment from their fathers.
The offenders all born around the 40's with violent fathers retuning from war. Derick Percy springs to mind and maybe Deiter Pfennig. The Beaumont killer would probably fit into the same situation although his identity remains unknown.

This is such a good point. I would love to see an international.study done on connection between involvement in war and subsequent violent crime, including violent offences committed by those who had been involved in combat, plus the impact on their kids who then have psychological issues and then go on to be a violent offender.

I have thought there was a direct link with D'Angelo/Golden State Killer and his time served in Vietnam.

There was also Ramirez in the US who was strongly influenced by an older cousin who was in Vietnam.

 

[jason_recliner]

• #3,480,
• #3,481
• #442

Thanks. Not evidence at all that the clock maker (I'm aware of his shop) is an antique jewellery dealer, so nothing upon which to base an "assumption" he gave Neil the ring.

 

[Nemisis]

They were not.

Thanks Zebo. Can you show me some evidence of his schooling days?

 

[bobk1988]

Thanks. Not evidence at all that the clock maker (I'm aware of his shop) is an antique jewellery dealer, so nothing upon which to base an "assumption" he gave Neil the ring.

never said it was evidence

assume:
verb

1. 1.
   suppose to be the case, without proof.
   
   
   
   

He doesn't make clocks, he restores and repairs them.

 

[jason_recliner]

never said it was evidence

assume:
verb

1. 1.
   suppose to be the case, without proof.
   
   
   

He doesn't make clocks, he restores and repairs them.

That's what a clock maker is, same as watch maker. How do you assume something without any evidence?

 

[Soldier Of Misfortune]

quick question - regarding the 'holiday' in Russia (?) and the UK (?) that BVE took after he murdered Richard Kelvin - there's been claims that he never went away and was actually staying at Clocker's flat and that photographs and souvenirs were all done locally and fake (were these shown to workmates or the police?). I would assume that this could be instantly clarified with a look at his passport but I've never heard anything that officially shows that he didn't go on holidays.

and a question for the legal minded - can people be declared a murderer after their death? Is there a court case/what is the procedure? I've never ventured into the Snowtown story - that was all after the main instigators death...

 

[PenfoldsFan]

quick question - regarding the 'holiday' in Russia (?) and the UK (?) that BVE took after he murdered Richard Kelvin - there's been claims that he never went away and was actually staying at Clocker's flat and that photographs and souvenirs were all done locally and fake (were these shown to workmates or the police?). I would assume that this could be instantly clarified with a look at his passport but I've never heard anything that officially shows that he didn't go on holidays.

and a question for the legal minded - can people be declared a murderer after their death? Is there a court case/what is the procedure? I've never ventured into the Snowtown story - that was all after the main instigators death...

Do you mean Truro?

John Bunting, of Snowtown infamy, is still alive.

Christopher Worrell, of Truro infamy, died prior to being discovered as jointly responsible for those crimes.

 

[Soldier Of Misfortune]

Do you mean Truro?

John Bunting, of Snowtown infamy, is still alive.

Christopher Worrell, of Truro imfamy, died prior to being discovered as jointly responsible for those crimes.

oops! Yes, Truro - was Christopher Worrell ever deemed officially guilty? How does it work if the person is dead? Are court cases solely for the decision on jailing somebody?

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Going out on a limb here but is it possible that Neil Muir was actually a part of The Family, albeit not necessarily involved in the murders. We know he was most probably a rent boy giving sexual favors to Millhouse and BVE in exchange for money /drugs. The expensive antique ring he was seen wearing we can assume came from Mr. R., so that's three suspects he knows and, apparently, he had been friends with one of the transgender girls for a few years. Their connection could have been drugs, however, it seems strange that a young straight man in the 70s would be friends with a transgender woman. Remember at the time these trans women were considered social outcasts.

Was Muir straight? He had a seven- year- old daughter when he was killed and apparently he was engaged to be married, but that doesn't necessarily make him straight. Was he bi? Was Neil Muir transgender? We've heard from his sister and friends that he had an androgynous, even effeminate appearance; long hair and slight of body, a 'pretty' man etc. Did BVE use Muir dressed as a woman to lure young guys into his car?

Muir was older than the other victims, they being in late adolescence, he a young man. It has been suggested he was killed for snitching to cops, does that explain why his was the most brutal of the murders, one of their own had done the dirty on them? Was the mutilation an attempt at post-mortem sex change? Was he just providing sexual services for Derrance Stevenson or was he a part of his deviant hobbies? Food for thought.

Quite likely.

Probably saw/heard too much and became a liability.

If you give any credence to the young blonde man at legal aid, who said Derrance Stevenson was in no state to be defending anyone, as being Allan Barnes, who was murdered soon after that event, then its quite possible to conclude that anyone who knew too much met a grizzly end.

 

[Soldier Of Misfortune]

If you give any credence to the young blonde man at legal aid, who said Derrance Stevenson was in no state to be defending anyone, as being Allan Barnes, who was murdered soon after that event, then its quite possible to conclude that anyone who knew too much met a grizzly end.

this one from Debi's book has been pretty officially given the flick as being Alan, as his brother has pointed out that Alan already had a lawyer at the time and wouldn't have any reason to be going to legal aid. There's the possibliity that it was Neil who was there.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

this one from Debi's book has been pretty officially given the flick as being Alan, as his brother has pointed out that Alan already had a lawyer at the time and wouldn't have any reason to be going to legal aid. There's the possibliity that it was Neil who was there.

Said to be the Barnes family lawyer I believe, yes, Ive read John's comments on this, however, it could be that DS was representing AB to avoid his family knowing too much.
Lets not forget, AB was last seen with DK, who was close to DS.

 

[Zebo]

Thanks Zebo. Can you show me some evidence of his schooling days?

I can direct you to the following sources.

Thebarton Boys Technical School - yearbook 1962 - BVE completed Intermediate in 1961.

R v VE [1984] - he left school after Intermediate

 

[Zebo]

oops! Yes, Truro - was Christopher Worrell ever deemed officially guilty? How does it work if the person is dead? Are court cases solely for the decision on jailing somebody?

I believe you cannot hold a criminal trial as the dead would be unable to present evidence in defence. There may be other mechanisms (eg the coroner's court) with different powers.

 

[Soldier Of Misfortune]

I believe you cannot hold a criminal trial as the dead would be unable to present evidence in defence. There may be other mechanisms (eg the coroner's court) with different powers.

So is Christopher Worrell not legally guilty of his crimes? And it can't be slander to call him a murderer because he's dead? Just wondering about what they'll be legally able to say about the members of the family in 30 years time.

 

[John Barnes]

Said to be the Barnes family lawyer I believe, yes, Ive read John's comments on this, however, it could be that DS was representing AB to avoid his family knowing too much.
Lets not forget, AB was last seen with DK, who was close to DS.

That’s a pretty long bow saying that Darko knew Stevenson . I don’t know where you got that from but from what I know there’s no link between Darko and Stevenson directly . Gambo could have known Stevenson but not one reliable source has said it , only conjecture and speculation . As for Alan he really didn’t hang out with Darko that much and it was the first time Alan ever stayed at darkos house . Darko was not a very close mate of Alan’s and didn’t spend much time together before that weekend . Please don’t try to put Darko down as a close friend of Alan’s he was more of a person Alan knew .


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[John Barnes]

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Mr R. also deals in antiques

I have been in r shop about [emoji6]-[emoji[emoji6]] times and didn’t see anything but clocks there . I must say my eyes were on r and not looking around to much .


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