Cunnington Cartel
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I don’t reckon it would be a goer. It’s really flat down there and in a high risk flood area, as it’s close to Breakfast Creek, Enoggera Creek.
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The 'Gabba (Brisbane Cricket Ground)
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Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
- Nov 26, 2018
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Would just like to mention (again) that the review panels decision has to be within the terms of reference.
Any new site will not be considered (well should not be anyhow).
The panel focus is to only look at venue listed as "new" and "upgraded".
So, no looking at large enough land spaces close to the CBD on google maps or various media reports having there 2 cents worth.
Coats should have known better than to even suggest QSAC, but he has the name and reputation so thinks that may have some sway.
Outside of the focus being on "new" and "upgraded" the committee can look at any suggestions that could tie back into that focus group of venues (14).
I won't list them all (16 in total) below, but the only obvious one is Suncorp (Brisbane Football Stadium) as it is the only large venue.
Coats got that part correct even though it is outside the focus venues.
Example: Someone suggests Moving the Opening & Closing Ceremonies from Gabba to Suncorp as Coates suggested. Thats a tick.
But then you could only suggest Athletics move to one of the other venues New (6), Upgraded (8) or Existing (16)
From that extensive list the only venue that comes close is Suncorp but it is way too narrow to host Olympic athletics.
So that type of suggestion should not be considered by the review panel.
Any new site will not be considered (well should not be anyhow).
The panel focus is to only look at venue listed as "new" and "upgraded".
So, no looking at large enough land spaces close to the CBD on google maps or various media reports having there 2 cents worth.
Coats should have known better than to even suggest QSAC, but he has the name and reputation so thinks that may have some sway.
Outside of the focus being on "new" and "upgraded" the committee can look at any suggestions that could tie back into that focus group of venues (14).
I won't list them all (16 in total) below, but the only obvious one is Suncorp (Brisbane Football Stadium) as it is the only large venue.
Coats got that part correct even though it is outside the focus venues.
Example: Someone suggests Moving the Opening & Closing Ceremonies from Gabba to Suncorp as Coates suggested. Thats a tick.
But then you could only suggest Athletics move to one of the other venues New (6), Upgraded (8) or Existing (16)
From that extensive list the only venue that comes close is Suncorp but it is way too narrow to host Olympic athletics.
So that type of suggestion should not be considered by the review panel.
| Venue Category | Review Committee Focus Venue Name | Costs |
| NEW (6) | Brisbane Arena (swimming, Legacy Entertainment Centre in the CBD) | $2.5 billion maximum Federal funding |
| Breakfast Creek Indoor Sports Centre | ||
| Chandler indoor Sports Centre | ||
| Moreton Bay Indoor Sports Centre | ||
| Redlands Whitewater Centre | ||
| Sunshine Coast Indoor sports Centre |
| Venue Category | Review Committee Focus Venue Name | Costs |
| UPGRADED (8) | Brisbane Cricket Ground (Athletics, Opening & Closing Ceremonies) | $2.7 billion Qld Gov funding. |
| Brisbane Aquatic Centre (Diving & Water Polo) | ||
| Brisbane International Shooting Centre | ||
| Sunshine Coast Mountain Bike Centre | ||
| Sunshine coast Stadium | ||
| Toowoomba Sports Ground | ||
| Wyaralong Flat Water Centre |
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Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
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I sent in three suggestions to the review committee.
One had nothing to do with The Gabba and the other 2 were interconnected to each other.
Posted them in full on Lions BF page 104
………………………………………………..
Below is a brief summary so as not to murky the waters so to speak.
Brisbane Arena $2.5 Billion:
Swimming with a drop in pool then an Entertainment Center venue in the Brisbane CBD.
This complicated project should be taken out of the Olympic plan altogether.
The State Government can then negotiate separately with the interested parties that want to have an entertainment center in Brisbane.
Get that done or don’t get it done as it does not matter at this point in time.
Interested parties so far are ASM Global, Live Nation & Oak View group.
Move swimming to the Chandler Aquatic Center already hosting Water Polo & Diving.
Upgrade capacity from 4,300 to around the 10,000 mark.
A wild estimate for this capacity upgrade let's say $100 million even $200 million would work.
This venue is being used for the upcoming Paris Olympic swimming trials.
That frees up $2.4 or $2.3 billion funding to use elsewhere.
Put $1 billion of this money towards the Gabba.
That leaves $1.4 or $1.3 billion left for infostructure.
……………………………………………………………….
Queensland Premier Miles can then take this to the people, media, & local councils.
With these changes the Queensland Government's contribution towards the Gabba will now be $1.7 billion not $2.7 billion
We now also have $1.4 billion extra to spend on infrastructure from that federal funding.
That also frees up another $1 billion of our funds to also put into infrastructure.
End result is a total $2.4 billion into infrastructure that was not there before and a brand new Gabba rebuild.
That should be a very easy sell for the Premier.
One had nothing to do with The Gabba and the other 2 were interconnected to each other.
Posted them in full on Lions BF page 104
………………………………………………..
Below is a brief summary so as not to murky the waters so to speak.
Brisbane Arena $2.5 Billion:
Swimming with a drop in pool then an Entertainment Center venue in the Brisbane CBD.
This complicated project should be taken out of the Olympic plan altogether.
The State Government can then negotiate separately with the interested parties that want to have an entertainment center in Brisbane.
Get that done or don’t get it done as it does not matter at this point in time.
Interested parties so far are ASM Global, Live Nation & Oak View group.
Move swimming to the Chandler Aquatic Center already hosting Water Polo & Diving.
Upgrade capacity from 4,300 to around the 10,000 mark.
A wild estimate for this capacity upgrade let's say $100 million even $200 million would work.
This venue is being used for the upcoming Paris Olympic swimming trials.
That frees up $2.4 or $2.3 billion funding to use elsewhere.
Put $1 billion of this money towards the Gabba.
That leaves $1.4 or $1.3 billion left for infostructure.
……………………………………………………………….
Queensland Premier Miles can then take this to the people, media, & local councils.
With these changes the Queensland Government's contribution towards the Gabba will now be $1.7 billion not $2.7 billion
We now also have $1.4 billion extra to spend on infrastructure from that federal funding.
That also frees up another $1 billion of our funds to also put into infrastructure.
End result is a total $2.4 billion into infrastructure that was not there before and a brand new Gabba rebuild.
That should be a very easy sell for the Premier.
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Bjo187
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A few things here, what's the point in a review if they don't look into alternate and better options? Are they just going to come back with, no we don't like this venue, without even suggesting an alternative?
Also didn't you say Victoria park is being used for bmx or horse riding or whatever? Doesn't that make it in the pool of either new or existing venues?
What another waste of time if they just come back with yes and no on certain venues without suggesting any alternative and better options. They'll have to do a whole other committee and enquiry into new possibilities after this. Although actually, having unfortunately worked in government for 1 year at one stage and being forced to acquire 3 quotes when wanting to purchase some safety tape, nothing would surprise me.
Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
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Bolded. In my opinion there are no "alternate and better options?" than The Gabba. **
Bolded. Yes, someone could put Victoria Park as an alternative, but it still sits outside the focus venues, and is heritage listed.
People have mentioned there are ways around heritage listed sites but that could take many months/years or never to get passed.
Others have mentioned the new RNA rail station would help Vic Parks cause.
That station is a long way from the site even at its closest point.
The Vic Park land is also owned by the BCC so any dealings there would be long and drawn out.
The Government want this settled now (March 2024) and no further drawn-out options. So should the Lions.
Obviously i prefer my plan otherwise i would not have put that forward.
You get a brand new Gabba and have another $2.4 billion to spend on infostructure.
A political win as it shuts up Brisbane Lord Mayor Schrinner and other councilors calling for infostructure spending.
Council elections will be over before the report though.
**AFL & Cricket win as they get a brand-new venue for the next 40 years.
The $6 billion Cross River Rail project completed with the Wooloongabba underground rail station across the road, with direct access via pedestrian overpass.
$1.4 billion Brisbane Metro bus service (runs every 10/15 minutes) will be completed going through the Wooloongabba bus station.
This station no longer needs to close for 60 minutes after the game. Brisbane Metro buses are in addition to most usual bus routes.
It should be an easy sell for Premier Miles as i mentioned in an above post.
Total funding stays the same for both the Federal and State governments.
For me the key to this review by the Government was including in the terms of reference this.
- The Intergovernmental Agreement (IGA) of February 2023 between the Commonwealth of Australia and the Queensland Government which provides a framework to fund key projects and initiatives to support the successful delivery of Brisbane 2032
This contract agreement is where they specified the Federal Gov will fund no more than $2.4 billion to the Brisbane Arena.
Also, that the Qld. State Government will fully fund the Gabba. Plus other minor stuff.
Change this back to the usual 50/50 split with some limitations.
It could just be that the Federal Government commitment to the Gabba is no more than $1 billion.
I mention this as the Federal Government wanted to avoid any big costs blowouts for the Gabba.
That doesn't mean anything.
Really? Then why doesn't this heritage listing prevent the BMX or equestrian facilities?
It's not enough to just declare that heritage listing of any part of a large site kills off any chance of development. It requires actually looking at what the heritage listing covers and doesn't cover.
On the eastern end of the site, the heritage listings are for:
- A retaining wall along Gilchrist Ave
- A doglegged stone stair connected to the retaining wall
- A row of trees planted along Gilchrist Ave
- The sporting fields south of Gilchrist Ave, but not anything that has been built on those fields.
- A stone wall south of Gilchrist Ave
- A shed between Gilchrist Ave and the sporting fields
So everything with an actual heritage listing is located along Gilchrist Avenue or to its south. That means pretty much everything to its north is not covered by a heritage listing.
It's 600m away using existing paths. I don't consider that an unreasonable distance.
Please explain. Why must they be long and drawn out? The council recently made several cutbacks because of increased spending. They need money.
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Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
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I have mentioned before that Victoria Park is a heritage listed site.
Having the BMX and Equestrian events at Victoria Park will be designed around the hilly terrain.
This will have minimal effect on the parkland and will not affect the parklands master plan.
Also, both are temporary Olympic venues.
apps.des.qld.gov.au
apps.des.qld.gov.au
apps.des.qld.gov.au
Some posters on Lions BF have mentioned that there are ways around getting things done on heritage sites most referring to buildings.
Protected and heritage site are clearly mentioned in IOC documents.
Below from one document.
• Protection of cultural heritage – the priority is preserving the significance of heritage places and heritage areas, including Indigenous cultural heritage
..............................
• No new permanent venues will be constructed on protected natural or cultural areas
Having the BMX and Equestrian events at Victoria Park will be designed around the hilly terrain.
This will have minimal effect on the parkland and will not affect the parklands master plan.
Also, both are temporary Olympic venues.
Victoria Park | Environment, land and water | Queensland Government
Details of a place in the Queensland Heritage Register.
Victoria Park | Environment, land and water | Queensland Government
Details of a place in the Queensland Heritage Register.
Victoria Park Golf Clubhouse (former) | Environment, land and water | Queensland Government
Details of a place in the Queensland Heritage Register.
Some posters on Lions BF have mentioned that there are ways around getting things done on heritage sites most referring to buildings.
Protected and heritage site are clearly mentioned in IOC documents.
Below from one document.
• Protection of cultural heritage – the priority is preserving the significance of heritage places and heritage areas, including Indigenous cultural heritage
..............................
• No new permanent venues will be constructed on protected natural or cultural areas
What should be looked at is where the future home of the Brisbane Lions and the future home of Test Cricket in Brisbane will be. All I have heard about the GABBA recently has been that the inner workings of the ground don't work and it won't be able to host events like AFL football or Test Cricket past the time of the 2032 Olympics. Does Queensland want to build a new GABBA at its current location, or do we build a new venue at a new location. The venue will pass the Olympics venues having a future use as the venue will be the home of the Brisbane Lions and the home of Test Cricket when it is played in Brisbane. Brisbane is losing to Perth and Adelaide because both cities have new venues or upgraded venues for Test Cricket.
The space at the GABBA is one of its drawbacks. However if it took the East Brisbane Primary School site and all surrounding land, and connected to the new Cross River Rail Station, from what we have seen would be a wonderful stadium.
The 2032 Olympic Games should be an opportunity for Brisbane to create a venue that will be that main stadium for the games, and will be the home of the Brisbane Lions and Cricket in Brisbane.
The space at the GABBA is one of its drawbacks. However if it took the East Brisbane Primary School site and all surrounding land, and connected to the new Cross River Rail Station, from what we have seen would be a wonderful stadium.
The 2032 Olympic Games should be an opportunity for Brisbane to create a venue that will be that main stadium for the games, and will be the home of the Brisbane Lions and Cricket in Brisbane.
What is it 6 or 7 or even more ACLs on this ground in the last 12 months. Coincidence?
The government wants tens of thousands of people to move into high density apartments around the stadium. It's a fine idea, but those people will need services, like a primary school. If the government had a plan to move the school to some of the nearby industrial land, that might have been a reasonable outcome. Instead they wanted these tens of thousands of people to have no nearby school, and send their kids to a school two suburbs away. That's utterly terrible urban planning. The Gabba rebuild plan was hopelessly flawed.
By the way, just taking the school wouldn't be enough to make the Gabba properly accessible in my view. It already overhangs Vulture and Stanley Streets because of how narrow the block is, and people spill almost straight onto the road from the exits on those sides, only being kept back by a fence. The only way to expand on those sides of the ground would be to close off two lanes of each road, which would be politically unpopular, or put those lanes into a tunnel, which would be expensive and might not leave enough time after its completed for rebuilding the stadium before the games.
I'd have been fine with closing off two lanes of Vulture and Stanley, but I can't imagine a p*ssweak Premier like Miles would have the guts to make that decision and weather the storm.
It should, but a lot of people don't like the idea of spending big on a stadium when many people are becoming homeless. The government could have done the hard work of explaining how it'll save money in the long run, but they're spineless, so they instead picked an option that they've sold as being cheaper, although it isn't, either in the short or the long term.
It should be decided that if the GABBA is not rebuilt then the new stadium which will host the Olympics will be the future home of the Brisbane Lions and Test Cricket in Brisbane. The GABBA is said to be in such away that it will no longer be viable to be a venue after the 2032 Olympics.
The QEII stadium is not a venue that could be turned into an AFL venue or a Test Match venue. What I have seen of the venue from here is it is a temporary venue which has lasted for 40 years after the 1982 Commonwealth Games. I have heard that it is close to forests of Koalas which need to be protected.
Holding the ceremonies for the 2032 Olympics at Suncorp Stadium is wrong. Most Olympic Games have had the ceremonies at the Track event. The only one I can think of was the 2016 Rio Olympics which did not.
In Adelaide they have rebuilt the Adelaide Oval and in Perth they have built Optus Stadium. These venues have put the GABBA in Brisbane in a poor position if they are fighting to be a host of a Test Match each summer. This should be the opportunity for Brisbane to create a stadium that will host Test Matches in the future. If it is the venue which has hosted cricket since the 1930's in Brisbane, the GABBA or if it is a new venue, decide on it now before it is too late to build a stadium for the 2032 Olympics.
The QEII stadium is not a venue that could be turned into an AFL venue or a Test Match venue. What I have seen of the venue from here is it is a temporary venue which has lasted for 40 years after the 1982 Commonwealth Games. I have heard that it is close to forests of Koalas which need to be protected.
Holding the ceremonies for the 2032 Olympics at Suncorp Stadium is wrong. Most Olympic Games have had the ceremonies at the Track event. The only one I can think of was the 2016 Rio Olympics which did not.
In Adelaide they have rebuilt the Adelaide Oval and in Perth they have built Optus Stadium. These venues have put the GABBA in Brisbane in a poor position if they are fighting to be a host of a Test Match each summer. This should be the opportunity for Brisbane to create a stadium that will host Test Matches in the future. If it is the venue which has hosted cricket since the 1930's in Brisbane, the GABBA or if it is a new venue, decide on it now before it is too late to build a stadium for the 2032 Olympics.
Bjo187
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I don't think you're getting the point. The whole reason they are not building a new Olympic stadium in Brisbane is to ensure the afl don't get a leg up with a new stadium in a place where the game is growing.
The problem is that the GABBA how it is at present will only last for 10 more years. The idea is to build a new stadium or rebuild an existing stadium is so that Brisbane have a venue for Test Cricket. So you want to rebuild the old QEII stadium which is not near public transport so that the AFL does not get a new stadium. Wouldn't you want Brisbane to host a successful Olympic Games in 2032. When the Broncos moved to the QEII stadium it was a successful time for the Bears/Lions because the Broncos were not in town.
I know that the GABBA has a land problem, so this could be an opportunity to build be new stadium like the one proposed at Victoria Park. It isn't the AFL trying to get a new ground built for itself. Where are you going to play cricket in Brisbane?
Bjo187
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I agree, but if anybody doesn't believe this is a case of NRL influence, in so called 'NRL heartland', to block AFL advancement in QLD, then they probably believe in the tooth fairy.
This was all west tigers foundation member John Coates idea. He even took a dig at the afl in one of his comments about the stadium.
He then he influenced the Broncos fan premier miles, who was also getting influence from NRL board members and former QLD labor party members in Peter Beattie and Miles own great friend in Kate Jones. It might be why Peter Vlandy's keeps praising up Jones and how great she's been.
The only way the AFL don't get a new stadium to use post Olympics is to use a temporary venue. A temporary venue that's actually going to cost more than a new stadium when you crunch the numbers.
That's true. But also this year's Paris Olympics, and the 2028 LA Olympics are both not using the athletics venue for the Opening Ceremony. So in that sense, Brisbane and Tokyo would be in the minority of the 5 most recent Olympics in doing so.
agree ..... the nrl (or powerful interests acting on their behalf) will have played a critical role in the gabba/vic park backflip
qld will be a strategic challenge for the afl in the coming years (not insurmountable by any means but a challenge nonetheless) - miles decision will have forced an afl rethink on how best to capitalise on the games growth in ways that are not reliant on the sugar hit of an olympics investment program*
at the very least the afl should be courting the next generation of qld political talent (on both sides of the political aisle) to ensure it has a favourable ear when questions of infrastructure investment inevitably arise (and they will) .... this long-term approach is not without risk either as infrastructure funding post 2032 will be tight and keenly fought over
* the unknown here is an expected qld lnp victory in the forthcoming state election
Bjo187
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When v'landy's f's off in 3 years the afl will have more chance, that guy is notorious for calling people in power trying to block any afl advancement. You can see his influence in the Sydney media these days too.
The liberals are more chance to build the stadium since quirk is an ex liberal and Schinner the current mayor is also a liberal, both are for the Victoria park proposal. The key is, if they win this electron they need to get construction started asap, so it's out of mind to voters before the next election in 2028. The courier mail wanting the new stadium also helps, so you'd hope common sense prevails.
I would like to say that this is very important for cricket in Brisbane. Cricket needs a new stadium in Brisbane post the Olympic Games as the GABBA is be unusable by today's standards. If these NRL powerbrokers don't want the AFL to have a new stadium, they are screwing Cricket as well.
As for where the ceremonies will be held. The 2024 Paris Olympics Ceremony will be held in the streets of Paris with the major stage being the Stade de France. The 2028 Los Angeles Olympics will be held at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum and SoFi Stadium. The large stadiums give ceremonies a large area to put a show on. With the budget that they have to put the ceremony on a soccer or rugby field would be reducing their stage.
If it is time for cricket to take up using a new venue in Brisbane then the 2032 Olympics would be the perfect stage for them to do the move. History may keep it at the GABBA and result in that being redeveloped.
Looking at the venue for the 2032 Olympic Games being the future host of Test Cricket in Brisbane is the best way to look at it. The fact that the Brisbane Lions will also call this stadium home is the fact that our football was designed to be played on a cricket ground.
As for where the ceremonies will be held. The 2024 Paris Olympics Ceremony will be held in the streets of Paris with the major stage being the Stade de France. The 2028 Los Angeles Olympics will be held at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum and SoFi Stadium. The large stadiums give ceremonies a large area to put a show on. With the budget that they have to put the ceremony on a soccer or rugby field would be reducing their stage.
If it is time for cricket to take up using a new venue in Brisbane then the 2032 Olympics would be the perfect stage for them to do the move. History may keep it at the GABBA and result in that being redeveloped.
Looking at the venue for the 2032 Olympic Games being the future host of Test Cricket in Brisbane is the best way to look at it. The fact that the Brisbane Lions will also call this stadium home is the fact that our football was designed to be played on a cricket ground.
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Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
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My opinion is The Gabba will soon be the best location for AFL and Cricket by a big margin.
Cross river rail and the new Brisbane Metro buses running every 5 minutes plus the other usual bus routes that presently run through Woolloongabba bus station will come online in about 7 months.
The Brisbane Lions are happy to stay at The Gabba which is Labors plan rather than be homeless for 4 years.
The Lions are in favor of a new venue being built so the future of the game will be better served rather than the proposed expensive Gabba upgrades after the Olympics.
Both Labor and the LNP have stated no new stadium will be built.
However, the LNP have given some hope of a reversal of that position with their proposed 100-day review of the Brisbane Olympics.
This week we had Cindy Hook the CEO of the games organizing committee suggesting people should let their politicians know if they are in favor of a new stadium.
Cindy Hook knows the figures don't stack up but has to follow the directions of the Government of the day.
She was careful in her response but still risks her job by speaking up.
I am still waiting for the urgent validation report ordered into the proposed new site of the very expensive $3.5 billion Brisbane Arena.
I have said for a long time the Brisbane Arena is far too expensive and not needed for the Olympics.
Brisbane is in need of a new Entertainment Centre but that should be a separate commercial deal to the Olympics.
Cross river rail and the new Brisbane Metro buses running every 5 minutes plus the other usual bus routes that presently run through Woolloongabba bus station will come online in about 7 months.
The Brisbane Lions are happy to stay at The Gabba which is Labors plan rather than be homeless for 4 years.
The Lions are in favor of a new venue being built so the future of the game will be better served rather than the proposed expensive Gabba upgrades after the Olympics.
Both Labor and the LNP have stated no new stadium will be built.
However, the LNP have given some hope of a reversal of that position with their proposed 100-day review of the Brisbane Olympics.
This week we had Cindy Hook the CEO of the games organizing committee suggesting people should let their politicians know if they are in favor of a new stadium.
Cindy Hook knows the figures don't stack up but has to follow the directions of the Government of the day.
She was careful in her response but still risks her job by speaking up.
I am still waiting for the urgent validation report ordered into the proposed new site of the very expensive $3.5 billion Brisbane Arena.
I have said for a long time the Brisbane Arena is far too expensive and not needed for the Olympics.
Brisbane is in need of a new Entertainment Centre but that should be a separate commercial deal to the Olympics.
Brisbane Olympics will be a failure without a new stadium.
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Perhaps they can't afford it, which raises the question why did they bid for the Olympics.
