news The General MMA & Combat Sports Discussion Thread

[phantom13]

saying something offensive and getting belted for it is totally different for being prosecuted for hate speach (which in itself it against free speech)

If you are free to say anything but not free of consequences of your words then it's not really free speech. By that definition every place on Earth has free speech

Anti semitism also falls under hate speech though.

Ultimately everyone is going to be accountable for what they say, as Bryce has been here.

You guys are way off base if you’re genuinely saying there should be no consequences for what you say, that’s not what freedom of speech intends or means.

I’d also note that nowhere in any of my posts am I talking about prosecution of any form (civil action not criminal in the homophobic speech example). Even getting sacked is really an employer contract matter

 

[phantom13]

I actually truly don’t know what the point you’re making here is?

That Dana should shut the **** up because no one should have any consequences for what they say?

 

[Topkent]

I actually truly don’t know what the point you’re making here is?

That Dana should shut the **** up because no one should have any consequences for what they say?

No you don't understand the point that's been very clear from the start. We say one thing you take it to somewhere else, argue that and then confuse yourself.

Freedom of speech is the right to express ideas, opinions, and beliefs without fear of punishment, censorship, or retaliation. It's a fundamental human right that's protected in many countries' constitutions.

 

[phantom13]

No you don't understand the point that's been very clear from the start. We say one thing you take it to somewhere else, argue that and then confuse yourself.

Right so Dana should shut the **** up?

Cause I’ve said this was a great response from Dana and in this instance is more effective than sacking him. I’m not and have not advocated for sacking him at any point but getting a very public and very pointed dressing down from your boss is by any definition a consequence to Bryce’s words.

It’s retaliation and really a form of punishment, so Dana’s contravened your little quote there.

 

[phantom13]

Topkent im not being a dick about this, I’m happy to say we don’t see eye to eye about sacking people for shit they say (in some instances) but the argument we’re having boils down to this.




You said very clearly that if it’s not free of consequences then it’s not free speech.

Dana’s response is very much a direct one and consequence to Bryce’s comments.

The issue for me is that you’ve narrowed down consequence to him getting sacked (or killed) I never did that.

The quote “freedom of speech isn’t freedom of consequence for your speech” certainly isn’t mine and it’s not prescriptive about what the consequence is.

I think Dana’s reply in this instance was appropriate but by your own quote it’s still a punishment of sorts.

So at the risk of putting words in your mouth, you’re actually not anti consequence for your words, you just think this consequence is suitable.

 

[Topkent]

Mate you win the internet today I don't care. I'm sure you'll tell me I do and I'm sure you'll bring something up
I really don't care. If you need this so bad have it mate. Honestly

 

[phantom13]

Mate you win the internet today I don't care. I'm sure you'll tell me I do and I'm sure you'll bring something up
I really don't care. If you need this so bad have it mate. Honestly

I’m not trying to win anything, I’m trying to understand what you’re actually saying cause you keep saying it has to have no consequences but this is a consequence?

If you can’t articulate yourself then just say that?

 

[Topkent]

I’m not trying to win anything, I’m trying to understand what you’re actually saying cause you keep saying it has to have no consequences but this is a consequence?

If you can’t articulate yourself then just say that?

You won mate congrats. You sound like you need it today. You're right I'm a dumb campaigner you're smarter than everyone else in this thread. Congratulations
You can tell me what I think from now on big fella you've got it all sorted.

I'm done replying now

 

[phantom13]

You won mate congrats. You sound like you need it today. You're right I'm a dumb campaigner you're smarter than everyone else in this thread. Congratulations
You can tell me what I think from now on big fella you've got it all sorted.

I'm done replying now

I don’t think I’m smarter than anyone. You pick a fight then say you’re done then keep replying.

I’ve asked what your point is and you’ve never even tried to articulate it.

You could just clarify yourself at any point or you could go full toddler like you have, that’s all good.

 

[Topkent]

So how's them fights anyway. Make or break for Izzy, think Shara and Sergei get it done pretty easy.

 

[catpremier 07]

Stacked card for a fight night. Shame about the start time

On SM-N986B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Topkent]

I think MVP might be one of the shittest fighters ever to watch. It's like constantly waiting for something that's never gonna happen.

 

[Dan]

Bums me out seeing Izzy stopped like that. He looked good, sharp early.

Decent fight night event.

 

[Topkent]

Never get bored of seeing the dog bender lose. Crazy how you can go from looking untouchable to losing what 5 out of 6 fights and getting finished in 3 of them with the last one looking the 'easiest'

 

[RobbyRoy]

Jeez, quite a fall from Izzy. I know it's a terrible timeslot for us but he's gone from threads with dozens of comments to not even making it out of the General Discussion thread.

Fairly predictable event overall. I thought this would be Izzy's last chance but his chin is clearly done. Sergei is gun shy after being KO'd and Shara is not very good.

 

[Topkent]

Jeez, quite a fall from Izzy. I know it's a terrible timeslot for us but he's gone from threads with dozens of comments to not even making it out of the General Discussion thread.

Fairly predictable event overall. I thought this would be Izzy's last chance but his chin is clearly done. Sergei is gun shy after being KO'd and Shara is not very good.

I've always wondered about this, like is his chin really gone? Never actually been fully flatlined. Sometimes I wonder if the difference between say an Izzy and a Rob is that extra 1% of confidence you have in yourself to stay like 1000% switched on an avoid those shots. I think once you lose, it's almost like no matter how good you are that half a tiny miny second maybe of hesistation brings you back to the pack with everyone else. Unless your Chama and then doesn't matter apparently

 

[mouncey2franklin]

Sad to see Izzy fall off a cliff like this.

By the time he next gets in an octagon he will have won one fight in the past three years.

And that was with a remarkable come-from-behind KO while getting pieced up.

His last win by stoppage will be half a decade ago.

I see people on social media saying he should retire.

If he is getting a million per fight, why quit now?

(I don't know how much he is getting per fight but I recall he signed a long deal while still on top)

His losses are by decision, submission, TKO. He isn't being KOd.

If he walks away, good on him, but if he keeps fighting, good on him, I say.

 

[mouncey2franklin]

As for Bryce Mitchell, I haven't seen anybody here quote the specific thing he said which has riled everybody up.

And I haven't listened to his podcast yet, maybe I'll check it out, but I don't usually listen to athletes' podcasts.

I watched Dana's press conference about it and it was farcical.

 

[00Stinger]

Jeez, quite a fall from Izzy. I know it's a terrible timeslot for us but he's gone from threads with dozens of comments to not even making it out of the General Discussion thread.

Fairly predictable event overall. I thought this would be Izzy's last chance but his chin is clearly done. Sergei is gun shy after being KO'd and Shara is not very good.

How do you come to the conclusion that his chin has gone?

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[RobbyRoy]

I've always wondered about this, like is his chin really gone? Never actually been fully flatlined. Sometimes I wonder if the difference between say an Izzy and a Rob is that extra 1% of confidence you have in yourself to stay like 1000% switched on an avoid those shots. I think once you lose, it's almost like no matter how good you are that half a tiny miny second maybe of hesistation brings you back to the pack with everyone else. Unless your Chama and then doesn't matter apparently

Well for me it's more what you describe, not necessarily a biological thing. I don't believe the nerves in his head are any weaker (likely stronger in fact) after all the knocks, but the reduction in speed, timing, confidence, concentration, fluidity etc etc, means he is more susceptible, and will become more and more so, to be being struck clean.

Happens to almost everyone eventually. Hunt, Hendo, Max, even BJ was knocked out by a non-fighter! Will be interesting to see how long Vettori's holds out, having none of the above bar confidence.

 

[RobbyRoy]

How dolo you come to the conclusion that his chin has gone?

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He was stopped by Nassourdine Imavov.

 

[Topkent]

As for Bryce Mitchell, I haven't seen anybody here quote the specific thing he said which has riled everybody up.

And I haven't listened to his podcast yet, maybe I'll check it out, but I don't usually listen to athletes' podcasts.

I watched Dana's press conference about it and it was farcical.

Pretty sure YouTube took it down already lol
It was basically
Jews are sneaky disgusting interest rate making people
Hitler wasnt a bad guy ( that's verbatim)
He was just protecting his people from the Jews who were gaying up his women and men and making transgender people
Id go fishing with Hitler ( verbatim)
I'm not a jew hater I've never killed one ( verbatim)
Concentration camps weren't even that bad, they were treated well
They weren't real anyway, couldn't have actually killed that many people
The japs deserved to be in the camps in america

I'm probably forgetting a shitload of it as well, Bryce Mitchell is a deadset ******

 

[mouncey2franklin]

Pretty sure YouTube took it down already lol
It was basically
Jews are sneaky disgusting interest rate making people
Hitler wasnt a bad guy ( that's verbatim)
He was just protecting his people from the Jews who were gaying up his women and men and making transgender people
Id go fishing with Hitler ( verbatim)
I'm not a jew hater I've never killed one ( verbatim)
Concentration camps weren't even that bad, they were treated well
They weren't real anyway, couldn't have actually killed that many people
The japs deserved to be in the camps in america

I'm probably forgetting a shitload of it as well, Bryce Mitchell is a deadset ******

Thanks for taking the time to list those things, my comment was

"I haven't seen anybody here quote the specific thing he said which has riled everybody up."

And I still haven't.

I'll have to find a copy somewhere to listen for myself.

This is the problem with the way Dana and others have handled this.

They could have directly quoted Bryce and then explained how or why he is factually incorrect.

Instead they have just done the 'he said [insert bad sounding thing]' and then gone straight to ad hominem.

This just fuels the very same people who saw what happened to Kanye for his wild remarks a couple years back.

You can see this in the comments of Dana's press conference, these are people who feel like there is an agenda behind the scenes.

The easiest way to shut them up is to directly quote the people who are wrong, and show how and why they are wrong.

 

[00Stinger]

He was stopped by Nassourdine Imavov.

So one stoppage where he wasn't flatlined means his chin is gone?

Weird take

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[Topkent]

So one stoppage where he wasn't flatlined means his chin is gone?

Weird take

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People always use the chin going wrong. If you're getting finished by a Jab or rocked badly then yeah your chins gone. If you eat a crisp right hook and fall back against the cage against a world class MMA fighter in small gloves your chins ****ing fine lol. Izzy was fine till the follow up shot landed absolutely perfectly.

Nothing to do with his chin, Izzy isn't getting hit by that first hook 5 years ago