The Greens

[Sttew]

That's because it is a simple equation.

Why then are rental listings in Melbourne down by 20.2%?

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Why then are rental listings in Melbourne down by 20.2%?

Builds are down, population is up

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Why then are rental listings in Melbourne down by 20.2%?

It's a real mystery. Where did all those houses go?

 

[Sttew]

Builds are down, population is up

So has nothing to do with landlords. Can we stop blaming landlords?

 

[Crankyhawk]

So has nothing to do with landlords. Can we stop blaming landlords?

Can blame everyone plenty to go around.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

So has nothing to do with landlords. Can we stop blaming landlords?

I didn't come here to blame landlords, in fact I was enjoying a quiet Sunday afternoon scroll of bigfooty until you posted this.

edit: it's saturday

Investors are deserting these States

Australia’s rental crisis looks set to worsen further as fearful investors offload their properties and abandon certain markets in Queensland and...

propertyupdate.com.au

Research from industry body Property Investment Professionals Australia (PIPA) shows 24.8 per cent of investors sold at least one property in Melbourne with 31.35 per cent selling in Victoria in 2022/2-23.

War on landlords sees mum and dad investors flee the market - Geelong Times

Investors are being further pushed out in the cold as the weight of regulation, taxes and unrealistic reforms mooted by government, sees mum and dad investors fleeing the rental market, leaving tenants in an increasing dire situation. Startling new research shows hundreds of thousands of rental...

timesnewsgroup.com.au

"Using 2021 Census as the baseline of 2.477 million private rental dwellings in Australia, it is estimated that hundreds of thousands of rental properties were sold in the past three years, with the majority of these bought by existing homeowners or first-home buyers."

How can anyone say the exodus of landlords is not impacting? There is no doubt fewer homes are being built and compounding this is the influx of immigrants, but with Melbourne this is partly offset by people leaving the city for interstate or regional Victoria

 

[Gralin]

You tell me Oracle. To sell a rental property it needs to be vacant.

No it doesn't

Settlements take how long? Average 60-90 days?

On average yes

So at a minimum that property is off the market for 100 - 120+ days

This seems like landlord math, are you a landlord?

and then there’s no guarantee it goes back into the rental market. Little Johnny who has been living at home to save up for a deposit might buy it.

Yes and an owner occupier is a good thing

If you bothered to read the article I posted it said;

“About 43 per cent of respondents in this year's survey sold to an existing homeowner, while 30 per cent sold to a first-home buyer. “Just 24 per cent sold to another investor – down from 33 per cent last year – which means the majority of those investment properties were likely removed from the rental market.”

It's an article written by a lobby group that has a vested interest in pushing this story though

It's literally propaganda

 

[Sttew]

No it doesn't

You’re right, but ask any agent and they will tell you to wait until the lease has ended and have an empty place. Try selling a place with tenants entrenched and you are behind the eight ball. Not only can they demand payment for opens for inspection, but they are under no obligation to make the place look good.

 

[Gralin]

You’re right

Correct, everything after this is irrelevant

, but ask any agent and they will tell you to wait until the lease has ended and have an empty place. Try selling a place with tenants entrenched and you are behind the eight ball. Not only can they demand payment for opens for inspection, but they are under no obligation to make the place look good.

So yeah, you a landlord there Sttew or a real estate agent?

 

[Sttew]

Correct, everything after this is irrelevant

So yeah, you a landlord there Sttew or a real estate agent?

My wife and I have a rental property, yes. We are good landlords and have done the right thing by our tenants..

And everything after “you’re right” is not irrelevant.

 

[Gralin]

My wife and I have a rental property, yes. We are good landlords and have done the right thing by our tenants..

And everything after “you’re right” is not irrelevant.

So you could say you're invested in this discussion

 

[Sttew]

So you could say you're invested in this discussion

You could say what you want and you do. I know there are shit landlords out there but I’d be confident in saying the majority of landlords like me are not the problem with our current housing crisis. What’s your view?

 

[Gralin]

You could say what you want and you do. I know there are s**t landlords out there but I’d be confident in saying the majority of landlords like me are not the problem with our current housing crisis. What’s your view?

That the problem is policy driven and here you are arguing against policy changes that might mean being a landlord is less financially attractive.
Housing should be a human right not a commodity.
I think there a landlords that aren't complete campaigners but unless you're self managing you're paying real estate agents to manage the property and there isn't a non campaigner real estate agent on this planet.

Either way landlords get way more welfare from the state than actual welfare recipients

 

[Sttew]

That the problem is policy driven and here you are arguing against policy changes that might mean being a landlord is less financially attractive.
Housing should be a human right not a commodity.
I think there a landlords that aren't complete campaigners but unless you're self managing you're paying real estate agents to manage the property and there isn't a non campaigner real estate agent on this planet.

Either way landlords get way more welfare from the state than actual welfare recipients

Gralin, no point debating this when a tosser like Ghost Patrol adds nothing but mocks every post like it’s all a big joke. So my cue to leave.

 

[Puddy]

That the problem is policy driven and here you are arguing against policy changes that might mean being a landlord is less financially attractive.
Housing should be a human right not a commodity.
I think there a landlords that aren't complete campaigners but unless you're self managing you're paying real estate agents to manage the property and there isn't a non campaigner real estate agent on this planet.

Either way landlords get way more welfare from the state than actual welfare recipients

Housing is not a right.

The rental market is really bad now. Removing tax incentives will make it worse.

You can't lower immigration, or grandma starves to death in the nursing home. Immigrants in general have a far better work ethic than white Australians, which is why they will buy property first.

While it's increasingly harder to get into the market, if your willing to work 7 days a week and make sacrifice it's not impossible

 

[Gralin]

Housing is not a right.

That would be why I said it should be Puddy old chum.
The fact we live in a wealthy country where it isn't is the problem.
It's totally possible and affordable to house and feed everyone living here but instead of doing that we subsidise the wealthy so they can get wealthier

The rental market is really bad now. Removing tax incentives will make it worse.

Removing AirBnB would make it better, removing the incentive for people to hoard housing and land for profit would make it better.
Taking the billions we give to landlords and buying up the properties they sell to use as public housing would make it better.

You can't lower immigration, or grandma starves to death in the nursing home. Immigrants in general have a far better work ethic than white Australians, which is why they will buy property first.

Privatization of aged care is also an issue.
Nowhere did I say anything about immigration either.

Why it's increasingly harder to get into the market, if your willing to work 7 days a week and make sacrifice it's not impossible

Just lol

 

[Puddy]

That would be why I said it should be Puddy old chum.
The fact we live in a wealthy country where it isn't is the problem.
It's totally possible and affordable to house and feed everyone living here but instead of doing that we subsidise the wealthy so they can get wealthier


Removing AirBnB would make it better, removing the incentive for people to hoard housing and land for profit would make it better.
Taking the billions we give to landlords and buying up the properties they sell to use as public housing would make it better.


Privatization of aged care is also an issue.
Nowhere did I say anything about immigration either.

Just lol

So your solution is to have government buy all available housing and have a huge housing trust type scenario?

 

[Gralin]

So your solution is to have government buy all available housing and have a huge housing trust type scenario?

My solution would be kill off the free ride for landlords and put than money into buying and building public housing instead preferably starting with all the normal housing stock that got converted to short stay accommodation by greedy campaigners.

Maybe keep a few dollars to televise public flogging of real estate agents

 

[Demonic Ascent]

You could say what you want and you do. I know there are s**t landlords out there but I’d be confident in saying the majority of landlords like me are not the problem with our current housing crisis. What’s your view?

You're right, the landlord's aren't the problem. The government policies that incentivise using housing as an investment and tax break option are the problem.

Good interview today with Max Chandler-Mather on the Guardian Australian Politics podcast where he explains this well. I think he made a comment that there would be $19b in tax subsidies for investment properties this year with $15b of that going to the top 10% of earners.

My understanding is the Greens are pushing the ALP to remove negative gearing but allow existing investors to have one property grandfathered in. Sounds like a fair deal to me.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Housing is not a right.

Wow

 

[Puddy]

My solution would be kill off the free ride for landlords and put than money into buying and building public housing instead preferably starting with all the normal housing stock that got converted to short stay accommodation by greedy campaigners.

Maybe keep a few dollars to televise public flogging of real estate agents

I've got no time for real estate agents. The way they treat both tenants and landlords isn't great.

Landlords are getting out because there is no real money in it unless you are debt free, and if your debt free you aren't negative gearing.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I've got no time for real estate agents. The way they treat both tenants and landlords isn't great.

Landlords are getting out because there is no real money in it unless you are debt free, and if your debt free you aren't negative gearing.

There is money in it, but it (should be) a long term investment. House prices will continue to appreciate at a higher rate than interest rates and is a safer option than putting it in the stock market. But investors shouldn't expect to reap whirlwind profits immediately, it should be seen as an option to increase your retirement funds/allow you to retire a bit early or use it to help your kids get in the market down the track.

People who think they have a right for the government to subsidise their investment options (especially when there is a current housing crisis and the asset they have bought will appreciate significantly over time) are nothing but dole bludgers/leaners/whatever other derogatory term you want to throw at people who suck at the government teat.

 

[Puddy]

There is money in it, but it (should be) a long term investment. House prices will continue to appreciate at a higher rate than interest rates and is a safer option than putting it in the stock market. But investors shouldn't expect to reap whirlwind profits immediately, it should be seen as an option to increase your retirement funds/allow you to retire a bit early or use it to help your kids get in the market down the track.

People who think they have a right for the government to subsidise their investment options (especially when there is a current housing crisis and the asset they have bought will appreciate significantly over time) are nothing but dole bludgers/leaners/whatever other derogatory term you want to throw at people who suck at the government teat.

Then renters are going to have to accept the rent rises that will follow

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Then renters are going to have to accept the rent rises that will follow

Nah, with more people buying houses as owner/occupiers there will be less demand for rental properties. Are landlords currently under charging rent because they are being altruistic?

 

[Puddy]

Nah, with more people buying houses as owner/occupiers there will be less demand for rental properties. Are landlords currently under charging rent because they are being altruistic?

Some landlords do charge unders, often to keep a good tenant.

New Australians will be the ones buying property, not lazy white Australians.