Politics The Hangar Politics Thread

[Lore]

Canavan is a genuine campaigner of a person.

Chester and McCormack have both publicly called him out this time…

 

[Vander18]

What to make of this?

In hindsight action probably had to be taken against Al Quaeda after 9/11 but how would the widows and parents of the soldiers who died fighting the Taliban feel today?

My sense is that history won’t judge this kindly.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

My sense is that history won’t judge this kindly.

Which part?

 

[faible]

What to make of this?

In hindsight action probably had to be taken against Al Quaeda after 9/11 but how would the widows and parents of the soldiers who died fighting the Taliban feel today?

My sense is that history won’t judge this kindly.

How many of the conflicts since WWII have been judged kindly?

 

[Vander18]

Which part?

From the point where it’s stopped being about Al Queada through to the point where we exited and the Taliban seized control of the country.

 

[sameolds33]

Queenslanders have a lot to answer for with the election of Pauline Hanson to the Senate - not just once. Appalling "politician", appalling person; an embarrassment to our democracy.

 

[Lore]

Queenslanders have a lot to answer for with the election of Pauline Hanson to the Senate - not just once. Appalling "politician", appalling person; an embarrassment to our democracy.

I think Hansonites need to be represented in parliament. They get a vote (and outvoted), they get a voice (and shouted down), but it's democratic and they don't get to riot. They do capture a reasonable number of votes (though declining) so at least it's not an unrepresentative micro party getting in on preference swaps.

I sometimes wonder what would happen if we were able to elect two representatives per electorate, like they do in the UK and other places. Perhaps the second one goes to the Senate, or fewer, larger electorates so you don't end up with 300 MPs in the lower house.

 

[sameolds33]

I think Hansonites need to be represented in parliament. They get a vote (and outvoted), they get a voice (and shouted down), but it's democratic and they don't get to riot. They do capture a reasonable number of votes (though declining) so at least it's not an unrepresentative micro party getting in on preference swaps.

I sometimes wonder what would happen if we were able to elect two representatives per electorate, like they do in the UK and other places. Perhaps the second one goes to the Senate, or fewer, larger electorates so you don't end up with 300 MPs in the lower house.

My objection is not that PH was elected but that PH - and her ugly allies; Christensen, Robert et al represents an appalling sector of society - all from Qld. I'm embarrassed that these views are so prevalent that they determine national policy and law, to the detriment of all Australians. Voting down the federal ICAC today; the vaccine legislation yesterday. We are all poorer for the ignorance of the elected and those who elect them.

Jackie Lambie, on the other hand, has come a long way since Clive Palmer thought he could manipulate her vote. I don't necessarily agree with all she stands but can respect the way she goes about her work. She's not destructive in the way PH is, and has been throughout her political life.

 

[Lore]

My objection is not that PH was elected but that PH - and her ugly allies; Christensen, Robert et al represents an appalling sector of society - all from Qld. I'm embarrassed that these views are so prevalent that they determine national policy and law, to the detriment of all Australians. Voting down the federal ICAC today; the vaccine legislation yesterday. We are all poorer for the ignorance of the elected and those who elect them.

Jackie Lambie, on the other hand, has come a long way since Clive Palmer thought he could manipulate her vote. I don't necessarily agree with all she stands but can respect the way she goes about her work. She's not destructive in the way PH is, and has been throughout her political life.

I wonder how much of that is down to the LNP being a merged entity in Queensland. Perhaps if they had actual nationals as candidates they'd vote for those instead.

Although they didn't really vote down ICAC, the opposition in the senate tried to force a discussion on it due to erratic numbers with COVID absences and that was voted down, but it wouldn't have legislated anything as nothing on that topic has been or would get through the lower house. Just swings and roundabouts.

 

[quotemokc]

Queenslanders have a lot to answer for with the election of Pauline Hanson to the Senate - not just once. Appalling "politician", appalling person; an embarrassment to our democracy.

I feel the same way about Penny Wong and South Australians.

 

[boncer34]

If you needed any further proof Putin isn't having things his own way watch his rant overnight.

 

[Lore]

If you needed any further proof Putin isn't having things his own way watch his rant overnight.

If this scenario was him having things his own way I’d have to conclude that he’s madder than the hatter in the first place.

Actually there was this decent YouTube video that I watched a couple of weeks ago for anyone who might be interested… do with it as you will. It’s kinda long but worth it imo, was made before this whole thing kicked off.

 

[eth-dog]

I have no words.

 

[eth-dog]

Big gap to make up in 2 weeks

 

[Beerfish]

Another victory shaping up for the 'we're not them' platform.

 

[Lore]

Another victory shaping up for the 'we're not them' platform.

Which is basically all either party has had to go on for years. The leadership within both parties was won on “I’m not him” and the leadership of the country is “we’re not them”.

They seem to get further and further from what most people would consider good policy objectives. The only thing they’ve got going for them at this stage is a lack of alternatives.

 

[eth-dog]

Which is basically all either party has had to go on for years. The leadership within both parties was won on “I’m not him” and the leadership of the country is “we’re not them”.

They seem to get further and further from what most people would consider good policy and objectives every time. The only thing they’ve got going for them at this stage is a lack of alternatives.

It does feel like we'll see quite a few more independents get into parliament this year as well. Monique Ryan is in the race for Kooyong up to her eyeballs, and there seems to be other similar races around the country. I have to say I'm a little disappointed that I'm just outside Kooyong by about 1 km

 

[boncer34]

It does feel like we'll see quite a few more independents get into parliament this year as well. Monique Ryan is in the race for Kooyong up to her eyeballs, and there seems to be other similar races around the country. I have to say I'm a little disappointed that I'm just outside Kooyong by about 1 km

There will be 1 or 2 more at most

 

[eth-dog]

There will be 1 or 2 more at most

Still, it's a step in the right direction for me. If we get 10+ on the crossbench it might start the change to the duopoly in Australia.

 

[Beerfish]

Still, it's a step in the right direction for me. If we get 10+ on the crossbench it might start the change to the duopoly in Australia.

They just sell their vote to the highest bidder anyway.

 

[Lore]

It does feel like we'll see quite a few more independents get into parliament this year as well. Monique Ryan is in the race for Kooyong up to her eyeballs, and there seems to be other similar races around the country. I have to say I'm a little disappointed that I'm just outside Kooyong by about 1 km

Independent and minor party votes will be up across the country I think, but whether they get in or not idk. The lower house may hang and the senate is likely to be colourful regardless of who wins (or doesn't) in the lower house.

Kooyong is interesting because I think labor and greens are not doing anything much there in terms of campaigning, so Ryan will probably get more votes from those voters (plus their preference streams). Frydenberg's response to it is more telling than her campaign in and of itself.

Palmer is putting in a stupid amount of money which could potentially swing some outer suburban seats to the liberals through preferences, which may run against the grain elsewhere (according to polls).

Lambie is running a candidate in Tasmania that could get through too, she's not up for re-election herself this time so is putting her brand behind someone else.

Obviously a lot of so-called "teals" as well, targeting long-term liberal voters.



I think the liberals have moved to the right a lot in response to Palmer and One Nation and similar types getting through in the last election, but they probably should've let the Nationals mop up those votes because they seem to be robbing Peter to pay Paul with their current policy settings. Labor has been out in the woods for years after the same sort of thing happened with the greens mopping up their left flank, they don't seem to know which way to turn on anything now.

 

[boncer34]

Still, it's a step in the right direction for me. If we get 10+ on the crossbench it might start the change to the duopoly in Australia.

Won't happen mate. It's a nice dream though.

 

[Lore]

They just sell their vote to the highest bidder anyway.

If you're a Victorian you might not think so - we've had some functional minor party/independents in our state upper house that have forced Andrews to negotiate a few things they wanted in order to get his legislation through.


I'm still vaguely amused by Palmer's three senators ditching him to become independent last time I think that Motoring Enthusiast guy left that party too after they started trying to tell him how to vote...

 

[Lore]

Still, it's a step in the right direction for me. If we get 10+ on the crossbench it might start the change to the duopoly in Australia.

The primary vote for the major parties has actually been consistently eroding for a long time. Preferential voting forces you to eventually choose between liberal or labor, and group voting tickets in the senate where you either entrust your vote to a group preference ticket, or numbered hundreds of boxes yourself were a bit obstructive really, especially in the days before you had google in your pocket;

The declining major party vote

I’ve been focused recently on the longer historical trends which play out beyond the individual election cycle, or even beyond a single decade of political history. So much of electoral analy…

www.tallyroom.com.au

Now it's minimum 6 above or 12 below the line, which is far easier to accomplish if you don't want to stand in a booth with a stub of a pencil for 3 hours, and group preference tickets are abolished and the threshold for party registration is higher, basically to try and get rid of the minor parties and make the senate more stable, but the upshot of that is that the senate ticket is smaller and less arduous to fill out if you want to vote for the little ones first, so probably not going to stop you voting for them so long as they're big enough to still be a party, if anything probably the opposite now that you actually can.

A lot of the little parties actually merged together, a bunch of socialist type ones became the victorian socialists (and the socialist alliance then split off again), the sex party and the cyclists became reason, and there's one called 'fusion' too which is made up of a lot of left-leaning ones. Shooters, fishers and farmers is the product of another series of mergers, but that one is more right-leaning I think. I forget what else was on the senate ticket for Victoria other than I remember seeing a couple of those anti-vax/anti-mandate/anti-lockdown activist ones on there as unendorsed group tickets, Monica Smit is one and the other is Damien something iirc. Hynch, Palmer, One Nation also on there of course so lots of little ones to choose from.


I can't find the stats now but apparently there used to be a lot more independent politicians in Australia prior to the formation of the liberal party, which was itself an amalgamation of non-labor parties. Perhaps the fall in the primary vote for liberal/national & labor is reverting to type, reflecting the fact that they no longer represent the interests of or else connect with 90%+ of the population.

 

[Lore]

Federal Election Senate How to Votes: VIC

Australian Federal Election 2022 Senate How To Votes for Victoria

abc.net.au