Politics The Hangar Politics Thread

[Old Campaigner]

Meta now flags this picture as fake....

It’s not, it’s from 2014. Zucc must just love the taste of musk’s balls

 

[dank420_]

It’s not, it’s from 2014. Zucc must just love the taste of musk’s balls

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[Darealrath]

It's probably just best to engage with what people are saying rather than focus on who is saying it and dismissing it on that basis. If their ideas are bad or misinformed it should be straightforward to refute them.

 

[faible]

It's probably just best to engage with what people are saying rather than focus on who is saying it and dismissing it on that basis. If their ideas are bad or misinformed it should be straightforward to refute them.

It's really not.

Brandolini's law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it.

 

[Kong]

Even comments on Instagram pages, where 2 or 3 post a bullshit "fact", lead to this.

Suddenly the posts have 30,000 likes and other similar comments pop up, on that post and others.

Given this is accessed by average Joe's across the world, it suddenly becomes borderline fact and difficult to convince people otherwise.

 

[Darealrath]

It's really not.

Brandolini's law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Well, it depends. Dumb flat earth or anti vaxx takes take little effort to debunk. More complex ideas can require a lot more effort.

If people aren't experts or willing to make that effort I still think it's much better for the overall discourse and the way people interact, especially online, to be quiet rather than play the person instead of the idea. Playing the person just seems to push people further apart and result in the dumb polarisation we have now.

 

[boncer34]

Well, it depends. Dumb flat earth or anti vaxx takes take little effort to debunk. More complex ideas can require a lot more effort.

If people aren't experts or willing to make that effort I still think it's much better for the overall discourse and the way people interact, especially online, to be quiet rather than play the person instead of the idea. Playing the person just seems to push people further apart and result in the dumb polarisation we have now.

Strongly agree.

The problem is that playing the man is very much encouraged in echo chambers, such as this website for instance, if you're on the side of the majority.

Or if the people moderating the content agree with you.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Well, it depends. Dumb flat earth or anti vaxx takes take little effort to debunk. More complex ideas can require a lot more effort.

If people aren't experts or willing to make that effort I still think it's much better for the overall discourse and the way people interact, especially online, to be quiet rather than play the person instead of the idea. Playing the person just seems to push people further apart and result in the dumb polarisation we have now.

Debunking something isn't just posting a retort or whatever, it's also convincing people that the bullshit is in fact bullshit. That's much harder to do.

 

[boncer34]

Debunking something isn't just posting a retort or whatever, it's also convincing people that the bullshit is in fact bullshit. That's much harder to do.

Is it? Why?

 

[Old Campaigner]

Is it? Why?

Because people read bullshit and get attached to it. It agrees with their political leanings or some other pre-existing biases or they just like the sound of it.

If it was easy anti vaxxers wouldn't be a thing. Posting about their efficacy, how the benefits outweigh the risks for most people etc would make that problem go away. But it hasn't and now we're getting measles and polio outbreaks

 

[boncer34]

Because people read bullshit and get attached to it. It agrees with their political leanings or some other pre-existing biases or they just like the sound of it.

If it was easy anti vaxxers wouldn't be a thing. Posting about their efficacy, how the benefits outweigh the risks for most people etc would make that problem go away. But it hasn't and now we're getting measles and polio outbreaks

I don't think debunking is convincing everybody they're wrong and you're right. I think it's exposing how their idea is false, if they still choose to cling to the belief that doesn't mean you haven't debunked it.

 

[Darealrath]

Debunking something isn't just posting a retort or whatever, it's also convincing people that the bullshit is in fact bullshit. That's much harder to do.

Can't convince everyone every time (and would you even want to? Getting a bit philosophical here...).

 

[dank420_]

Is it? Why?

Just think about when someone tries to convince you, the Scales award winner, that you’re wrong.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Can't convince everyone every time (and would you even want to? Getting a bit philosophical here...).

I think it depends on the context and consequences of being wrong. A flat earther on their own is only damaging their dignity and credibility, flat earthers becoming a populist political movement that wants to shoot down satellites (or something, idk) is a situation where people need to be convinced they're wrong

 

[Darealrath]

I think it depends on the context and consequences of being wrong. A flat earther on their own is only damaging their dignity and credibility, flat earthers becoming a populist political movement that wants to shoot down satellites (or something, idk) is a situation where people need to be convinced they're wrong

Fair on the surface but where does "need to be convinced" lead if they aren't willing?

 

[boncer34]

Just think about when someone tries to convince you, the Scales award winner, that you’re wrong.

I don't think debunking is convincing everybody they're wrong and you're right. I think it's exposing how their idea is false, if they still choose to cling to the belief that doesn't mean you haven't debunked it.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Fair on the surface but where does "need to be convinced" lead if they aren't willing?

More forcible action? Examples surface from time to time particularly when a parent is withholding lifesaving medical treatment from their kid

 

[Beerfish]

Strongly agree.

The problem is that playing the man is very much encouraged in echo chambers, such as this website for instance, if you're on the side of the majority.

Or if the people moderating the content agree with you.

 

[boncer34]

View attachment 2203684

I'm referring to SRP.

Mainly.