Politics The Hangar Politics Thread

[Vander18]

Well I'm not sure what else you're meant to call someone who's main issue is anti-immigration. And that's being nice.

Call them anti-immigration?

 

[Vander18]

I mean he's not gonna call himself a fascist is he

Well that’s what self-proclaimed means….

 

[dank420_]

Call them anti-immigration?

Not if you're trying to define where they sit on the political spectrum. But hey it does give a big clue

 

[Vander18]

Not if you're trying to define where they sit on the political spectrum. But hey it does give a big clue

I think it did once upon a time.

I think in Britain or Europe today, given the huge levels of immigration that have occurred, you could absolutely be anti-immigration (noting there is a spectrum of anti-immigration views ) without being a far right, white nationalist.

 

[dank420_]

I think it did once upon a time.

I think in Britain or Europe today, given the huge levels of immigration that have occurred, you could absolutely be anti-immigration (noting there is a spectrum of anti-immigration views ) without being a far right, white nationalist.

It's strange that you cite Britain because a lot of that has been shown to be false fear mongering. It also suggests that immigrants are somehow the only ones capable of certain crimes. I'm honestly surprised people still fall for this rhetoric.

And then if you're mentioning a spectrum of anti-immigration views which yes I agree exists, it's pretty clear which end TR sits at.

Anyway, this is head/brickwall stuff.

 

[Vander18]

It's strange that you cite Britain because a lot of that has been shown to be false fear mongering. It also suggests that immigrants are somehow the only ones capable of certain crimes. I'm honestly surprised people still fall for this rhetoric.

And then if you're mentioning a spectrum of anti-immigration views which yes I agree exists, it's pretty clear which end TR sits at.

Anyway, this is head/brickwall stuff.

Agreed

 

[Old Campaigner]

You can be opposed to immigration (the economic policy) without being opposed to immigrants at the individual level. The fact that musk went straight for cheerleading the out and proud racist who has been in and out of jail for various drug and fraud offences and is too toxic even for Farage to touch, is quite telling.

 

[Vander18]

You can be opposed to immigration (the economic policy) without being opposed to immigrants at the individual level. The fact that musk went straight for cheerleading the out and proud racist who has been in and out of jail for various drug and fraud offences and is too toxic even for Farage to touch, is quite telling.

Whether Tommy is good or bad is a tiny sideshow to the real issue.

What Musk did accomplish was raising awareness of the horrific abuse of young girls, and the cover up of that abuse, that has been taking place across England. Thank God for that.

 

[Darealrath]

Musk is very big picture; you just need to hear him go about his focus on the future of the species and space travel etc. Obviously there is some self interest here with his companies but I do think he also genuinely believes in this.

Therefore I suspect he has little interest in or even awareness of the detail of the beliefs and actions of many of those he supports. He just cares that they are (what he thinks) broadly aligned to his big picture goals OR opposed to what he disagrees with (which has overlap but is not necessarily the same).

He's also a self confessed wind-up merchant, particularly on social media. Take a lot of it with a grain of salt.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Whether Tommy is good or bad is a tiny sideshow to the real issue.

What Musk did accomplish was raising awareness of the horrific abuse of young girls, and the cover up of that abuse, that has been taking place across England. Thank God for that.

He wasn’t the first to bring it to light, it was a big story in the UK a decade ago, there was an inquiry into how it was handled and then the conservative government of the day declined to implement the recommendations.

Musk is just cynically exploiting it for his own ends.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Musk is very big picture; you just need to hear him go about his focus on the future of the species and space travel etc. Obviously there is some self interest here with his companies but I do think he also genuinely believes in this.

Therefore I suspect he has little interest in or even awareness of the detail of the beliefs and actions of many of those he supports. He just cares that they are (what he thinks) broadly aligned to his big picture goals OR opposed to what he disagrees with (which has overlap but is not necessarily the same).

He's also a self confessed wind-up merchant, particularly on social media. Take a lot of it with a grain of salt.

I think his big picture stuff is largely separate from the political positions he takes. The exception is his push for people to have more children which is almost certainly part of his great replacement theory and is steeped in racism

 

[faible]

Musk is very big picture; you just need to hear him go about his focus on the future of the species and space travel etc. Obviously there is some self interest here with his companies but I do think he also genuinely believes in this.

Therefore I suspect he has little interest in or even awareness of the detail of the beliefs and actions of many of those he supports. He just cares that they are (what he thinks) broadly aligned to his big picture goals OR opposed to what he disagrees with (which has overlap but is not necessarily the same).

He's also a self confessed wind-up merchant, particularly on social media. Take a lot of it with a grain of salt.

Yes, but also, richest man on the planet who owns a major social media platform using said platform and influence to try to disrupt global politics by supporting far-right parties isn't exactly something to ignore given the whole US situation.

Ignoring wealthy and powerful people wielding influence doesn't tend to result in them going away.

 

[Vander18]

He wasn’t the first to bring it to light, it was a big story in the UK a decade ago, there was an inquiry into how it was handled and then the conservative government of the day declined to implement the recommendations.

Musk is just cynically exploiting it for his own ends.

I didn’t say he was the first to bring it to light and I’m not praising him. I don’t care what his motivations were, I only care that his action has led to an outcome that I support.

It had been reported on previously but never addressed satisfactorily and I guarantee you many in England remained until recently unaware of the scale of what took place.

There was no enquiry into how it was handled, there was a broad enquiry into child sex abuse that lightly touched on the issue of grooming gangs and once again, represents a completely unsatisfactory response.

Both sides of politics have completely disgraced themselves with their contempt for their own people in regards to this issue.

There is now, finally, momentum for a genuine investigation of and enquiry into what took place.

 

[dank420_]

Therefore I suspect he has little interest in or even awareness of the detail of the beliefs and actions of many of those he supports. He just cares that they are (what he thinks) broadly aligned to his big picture goals OR opposed to what he disagrees with (which has overlap but is not necessarily the same).

I agree with this. He doesn't give a ****.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if he went on record saying it was a Nazi salute. What the hell is anyone going to do?

 

[faible]

Whether Tommy is good or bad is a tiny sideshow to the real issue.

What Musk did accomplish was raising awareness of the horrific abuse of young girls, and the cover up of that abuse, that has been taking place across England. Thank God for that.

He wasn’t the first to bring it to light, it was a big story in the UK a decade ago, there was an inquiry into how it was handled and then the conservative government of the day declined to implement the recommendations.

Musk is just cynically exploiting it for his own ends.

As OC says, this was already well known and pretty extensively studied:

Investigations into the Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[faible]

I didn’t say he was the first to bring it to light and I’m not praising him. I don’t care what his motivations were, I only care that his action has led to an outcome that I support.

It had been reported on previously but never addressed satisfactorily and I guarantee you many in England remained until recently unaware of the scale of what took place.

There was no enquiry into how it was handled, there was a broad enquiry into child sex abuse that lightly touched on the issue of grooming gangs and once again, represents a completely unsatisfactory response.

Both sides of politics have completely disgraced themselves with their contempt for their own people in regards to this issue.

There is now, finally, momentum for a genuine investigation of and enquiry into what took place.

Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Vander18]

Yes, but also, richest man on the planet who owns a major social media platform using said platform and influence to try to disrupt global politics by supporting far-right parties isn't exactly something to ignore given the whole US situation.

Ignoring wealthy and powerful people wielding influence doesn't tend to result in them going away.

This is an issue, but it’s an issue across the political spectrum and has existed since forever.

He wasn’t the first to bring it to light, it was a big story in the UK a decade ago, there was an inquiry into how it was handled and then the conservative government of the day declined to implement the recommendations.


As OC says, this was already well known and pretty extensively studied:

Investigations into the Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Rotherham is one of at least 50 towns impacted by this.

Regardless of who reported what and when, there has never been a report that satisfactorily addresses the matter. There is now momentum for this to happen. It’s a good thing.

This is a good read from a guy whose reporting on this I have been following:

 

[dank420_]

"hey so never mind about the nazi shit look at this good thing he did!"

 

[faible]

I don’t care what his motivations were, I only care that his action has led to an outcome that I support.

Sure, I get what you're saying. I despise Trump and everything he represents, but if he's been the reason for Israel and Hamas agreeing a (lasting) ceasefire in Gaza then I'll give him credit for that.

That doesn't mean Musk hasn't supported a whole heap of far-right talking points, parties (AfD are so far-right that the far-right in France think they're too extreme), or figureheads. Nor that he didn't stand on stage and do a fascist gesture - which would be fully in-line with the cohort he's found himself in.

You can agree with a couple of things someone like Robinson supports but still be deeply opposed to other things. Just because you agree with Musk on this occasion doesn't mean you overlook everything else he's done / is doing. He's the wealthiest man on the planet, has bought himself an office in the White House, and is now attempting to influence British and European politics, that should be cause for concern for anyone.

 

[Vander18]

Sure, I get what you're saying. I despise Trump and everything he represents, but if he's been the reason for Israel and Hamas agreeing a (lasting) ceasefire in Gaza then I'll give him credit for that.

That doesn't mean Musk hasn't supported a whole heap of far-right talking points, parties (AfD are so far-right that the far-right in France think they're too extreme), or figureheads. Nor that he didn't stand on stage and do a fascist gesture - which would be fully in-line with the cohort he's found himself in.

You can agree with a couple of things someone like Robinson supports but still be deeply opposed to other things. Just because you agree with Musk on this occasion doesn't mean you overlook everything else he's done / is doing. He's the wealthiest man on the planet, has bought himself an office in the White House, and is now attempting to influence British and European politics, that should be cause for concern for anyone.

I agree - two things can always be true. I am no defender of Musk, I just don’t believe he’s a fascist.

Re your last statement, this is certainly a concern but it’s hardly limited to Musk. Soros, Gates, Murdoch….these people all exert huge influence on our society. Whether their agenda is left, right, globalist or whatever….its a bad thing for the people.

 

[Vander18]

"hey so never mind about the nazi shit look at this good thing he did!"

Ridiculous take.

 

[jannissary]

He's definitely a white nationalist. He has a history of agreeing with them.

a boer who’s a white nationalist, i’m shocked!

 

[Vander18]

a boer who’s a white nationalist, i’m shocked!

Is he Afrikaner? I thought he was British.

Not that it really matters.

 

[jannissary]

Is he Afrikaner? I thought he was British.

Not that it really matters.

grand parents were canadian, who migrated to canada because they were fans of apartheid. musk was born in pretoria.

musk's dad also alleged that his grand father (apartheid liker) sympathised with the nazi party of germany.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Musk’s dad married his own stepdaughter who he first met when she was 4yo

So elons step sister is also his step mum lol