List Mgmt. The Hawks - System? Talent? What type of side are we?

[Brishawk]

Talented is permanent form is temporary. I think its more reasonable to assume the coaches/recruiters that spend years watching players developed to have solid foundation to understand what x players will become. Can you realistically argue his comments weren't close to the mark?

Literally none of my comments are about sam or the coaches judgment though.

Edit: in case of doubt, sam was bang on. But he had information no one else had. That was my point. Cant be too hard on people given how little exposure that talent had and or what their form was at the time.

 

[Argy]

Talented by foot is the key for me.

Take Carlton for example (or Melbourne, Freo, yada yada), I have never seen them take a risk with a low flat and hard kick that simply cuts the opposition press to pieces if you get it right. Hawthorn try this 10-20 times a game and very rarely screw it up. And something like this can be the difference between looking like you have amazing ball movement (Hawthorn) and looking like the most stagnant offence in the league (Carlton).

The number of times I see opposition teams take the easy chip option and not the risk of the hard option always surprises me. Hawthorn seem to recruit and develop players that can do it (Sic, Scrim, Amon, Mass, etc) and the coach actually instructs them to take the hard option. Because the reward - blow the opposition press up - exceeds the risk - turnover.

Having said that there is a massive amount of system Mitchell has implemented. When they take these risks with kicking the Hawks are rarely exposed the other way when it goes bad - there is something they do defensively to set up against the risk - and they rarely miss. Their ability to cover the ground is also a massive part of this.

This.

Thanks for saving me the time of laying out the main points I was thinking of making.

 

[detox]

Its because people haven't yet noticed that players like Cmac are silently becoming stars, or that Scrimshaw is doing everything Lever was with better footskills when he was getting pumped up. Or that the Wizard is already playing like one of the best small forwards in the comp. Ditto Meek.

We have stars everywhere.

On SM-S928B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Argy]

The thing that sets this side apart is their unwavering commitment to their team mates. The celebration from Ginni when he hit the Wiz on the chest 25 meters out was as good as it would have been for a goal. They just love making their mates look good.

 

[Brishawk]

Its because people haven't yet noticed that players like Cmac are silently becoming stars, or that Scrimshaw is doing everything Lever was with better footskills when he was getting pumped up. Or that the Wizard is already playing like one of the best small forwards in the comp. Ditto Meek.

We have stars everywhere.

On SM-S928B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Scrim should have been in the aa squad ahead of Sicily this year. Was holding down a kpd post and providing rebound. Just played at a very high level virtually every week.

I said in another thread, i think it is the lack of recognition that compromises external views of our talent. We have talent to burn.

 

[unitedhawk]

Some very thoughtful insights in this interesting thread.

I expect some to be picked up by so-called analysts in the media, who'll then shamelessly pass them off as their own.

Edit: My own thought is we have the best coach in the business.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

9 players were either not on the list or had yet to play a game (gunston had been traded if i have the timing right). A further 3 were not performing to the level now for whatever reasons. Is it really that unreasonable for people to scoff at a suggestion by sam that he had a premiership core in place already?

Yes. For the reasons I just stated, feel free to read them. I already addressed that Gunston was no longer on the list at that point. I also addressed that while Weddle and Mackenzie were raw that Mitchell clearly rated both highly pre-draft. You also can't tell me that Mitchell didn't know what Amon could bring to the side when he was an established talent. I have also addressed Frost's improved form and Impey's return to form.

 

[Brishawk]

Yes. For the reasons I just stated, feel free to read them. I already addressed that Gunston was no longer on the list at that point. I also addressed that while Weddle and Mackenzie were raw that Mitchell clearly rated both highly pre-draft. You also can't tell me that Mitchell didn't know what Amon could bring to the side when he was an established talent. I have also addressed Frost's improved form and Impey's return to form.

At no point have i questioned sam’s judgment. At no point have i said he was wrong or misguided. My comments were 100% not about sam.

 

[kirbatron]

Its because people haven't yet noticed that players like Cmac are silently becoming stars, or that Scrimshaw is doing everything Lever was with better footskills when he was getting pumped up. Or that the Wizard is already playing like one of the best small forwards in the comp. Ditto Meek.

We have stars everywhere.

On SM-S928B using BigFooty.com mobile app

this.

the media are slow with this stuff. I am pretty reserved play it down type but I knew we were legit after gws

the stars are emerging before our eyes.. this club never ceases to amaze me. we are blessed

 

[Ned Ryerson]

At no point have i questioned sam’s judgment. At no point have i said he was wrong or misguided. My comments were 100% not about sam.

You were taking issue with a comment SYL made that was basically a direct quote of Sam’s from the 2022 AGM. If you aren’t questioning Sam, who are you questioning?

 

[Brishawk]

You were taking issue with a comment SYL made that was basically a direct quote of Sam’s from the 2022 AGM. If you aren’t questioning Sam, who are you questioning?

Im questioning the reasonableness of calling out people for doubting sam’s claim. There simply was not a lot to go on for most people on the outside of the club. I opened with ‘to be fair’ not ‘sam was wrong’.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Im questioning the reasonableness of calling out people for doubting sam’s claim. There simply was not a lot to go on for most people on the outside of the club. I opened with ‘to be fair’ not ‘sam was wrong’.

Okay I can see that angle, however I think that was SYL’s point though - people scoffed (internally and externally) but Sam clearly knew what he was talking about and wasn’t just speaking platitudes that night at the AGM. As my lengthier post indicates I don’t think Mitchell was talking out of his arse - he clearly knew what he was trying to build. The club mantras the past two years show it also - in 2023 it was ‘believe’ that we were building in the right direction and this year it was ‘no limits’. Even the latter was mocked around these parts and elsewhere. Hell, even I publicly questions where the hell we were at post Suns game. If we are lucky enough to salute this year then a good 3/4 of the side were there that night at the AGM - and Sam is going to look like a god damn clairvoyant.

 

[Brishawk]

Okay I can see that angle, however I think that was SYL’s point though - people scoffed (internally and externally) but Sam clearly knew what he was talking about and wasn’t just speaking platitudes that night at the AGM. As my lengthier post indicates I don’t think Mitchell was talking out of his arse - he clearly knew what he was trying to build. The club mantras the past two years show it also - in 2023 it was ‘believe’ that we were building in the right direction and this year it was ‘no limits’. Even the latter was mocked around these parts and elsewhere. Hell, even I publicly questions where the hell we were at post Suns game. If we are lucky enough to salute this year then a good 3/4 of the side were there that night at the AGM - and Sam is going to look like a god damn clairvoyant.

Most people on this board were quite excited by Sam’s comments at the agm. I know it raised eyebrows in the media but most fans were on board. And you were not on your own after the suns game! Even sam seemed to be cracking during the swans game. But credit to him and the players, we got it back on track.

 

[Gene Simmons]

Every team has a system...
Question is, do they have the talent to make it work?
Therefore the answer is... We are a perfect blend of both!

 

[Billyc]

I think a lot of the talent myth comes from looking purely at a side's top 2-3 players. People look at Bulldogs with Bont or Carlton with Cripps and Curnow and wrongly think that means they have talented lists. They actually don't - they rely heavily on a small number because the talent completely falls away. Hawthorn and Geelong on the other hand have very even talent across the side. It's depth of talent.