- Moderator
- #201
It's wet lettuce leaf soft.
Blame the Sentencing Acts, not the Judiciary.
FWIW, I agree that some sentences are too low. Murder and Manslaughter mainly.
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It's wet lettuce leaf soft.
read post 200That literally never happens.
If a person is guilty beyond reasonable doubt, they're convicted. If they're not, they're acquitted.
You can swear either the Oath or the Affirmation. It's your choice.
And how on earth is this 'proof our legal system is a farce'?
read post 200
For starters, viewing something as farcical is not 'bitching', it's an observation.You live in one of the least corrupt, and most open, free and fair societies in human history.
Yet you're bitching about the Judiciary.
Explain why.
For starters, viewing something as farcical is not 'bitching', it's an observation.
As post 200 has explained, sometimes too lenient, sometimes sentences that are not appropriate.
Sometimes people get wrongly convicted, sometimes not convicted when they should be, and sometimes the sentence is inappropriate.
Semantics, whoever.Has nothing to do with the judiciary, and everything to do with the Sentencing Acts (i.e. the Parliament).
I never said or alluded I'm after perfection.Yeah, because no system is perfect.
Name a single legal system other than ours, that's better and you would prefer.
I'll wait.
Semantics, whoever.
The parliament, the judicial system, fact remains the legal system has many problems and it could be a lot better.
The fact remains we have mind boggling sentences, just like the op, and this is what is pissing people off. It 'feels' like the victim is not being shown duty of care and the criminal is being let off lightly.
I guess you didn't read my reply post, I've never alluded that it is not the 'best' (read least worst)Our legal and political system is literally the best in not only the world at present, but also in all of recorded human history.
If you disagree, name a single legal and political system that you think does (or did) it better.
Ok, a schizophrenic has likely caused these horrific injuries to an elderly person, possibly because of schizophrenia.A bloke with schizophrenia got 5 years in prison (3 and a half years non parole) for brutally attacking a grandmother, with her most serious injury being a broken pelvis from falling (or being pushed) on the ground, along with a fractured wrist.
What about that sentence is 'mind boggling' to you?
Do you think a schizophrenic person violently (and seriously) assaulting someone leading to a broken pelvis etc deserves more (or less) than 5 years in prison?
Blame the Sentencing Acts, not the Judiciary.
FWIW, I agree that some sentences are too low. Murder and Manslaughter mainly.
For a myriad of reasons, technicalities letting off scumbags when guilt is clear, swearing on the bible in cases where prosecution and / or defence uses 'belief in god' as an argument against - yet you can swear on the bible.
Which can have life changing impactOften mistakes are made
Well they should be shouldn't they.process has not been followed.
And it's still a massive problem.Then in sentencing their hands are tied to the confines of the Sentencing Act for the relevant crime charged.
And it's still a massive problem.
Tell that to the lady bashed up in the op, or any other victim unjust.You keep saying that, but its not.
And this is not happening, is it the fault of the legal system? Probably not, but lets not pretend 'it's not a problem'Don't get me wrong, I do think there is room for improvement. I'd like to see stronger sentencing laws for high end offending (murder and manslaughter mainly) and significant reform of the Prison system (and Youth Justice system
Tell that to the lady bashed up in the op, or any other victim unjust.
Look I get it, it's not wholly and solely the judicial system or the parliament or the lawmakers or whatever.
I'll ask you again to read post 206, it explains my position pretty well about what I believe the causation is.
Maybe, doesn't help the victim though does it.If anything it was a tad harsh considering his mental health (which he was likely unable to fully rely on as a total defense, because the psychotic break he was experiencing at the time was influenced by drugs as well as his poor mental health).
Put yourself in the victims shoes.Imagine being a Magistrate and dealing with a never ending stream of petty crims, DUI's, cookers, grifters, DV victims and perpetrators and so forth, and remaining objective and fair.
No, I'm saying it could and should be a lot better, free wheeling liberalism and by extension almost zero accountability and by extension almost zero consequence and by extension almost zero deterrence is a by product of that free wheeling liberalism.You're blaming liberalism for some kind of ineffective justice system.
I never suggested that, I suggested that it could be and should be a lot better.Firstly, I wholly refute your argument that our justice system is ineffective.
I haven't argued this, I've just argued that our legal system is sh*thouse, if it's the best the world has got, it doesn't change the fact it's still sh*thouse.Secondly, I would take the legal system of any liberal democracy over the Kangaroo courts riddled with corruption in Socialist, Fascist, Fundamentalist and every other non liberal or non democracy in the World.
Again, I haven't argued this.Surely you can see that the (Common law + liberal democracy) legal systems of the USA, UK, NZ, Canada and Australia are in every way far superior to non liberal States legal systems?
Maybe, doesn't help the victim though does it.
Put yourself in the victims shoes.
No, I'm saying it could and should be a lot better, free wheeling liberalism and by extension almost zero accountability and by extension almost zero consequence and by extension almost zero deterrence is a by product of that free wheeling liberalism.
I haven't argued this, I've just argued that our legal system is sh*thouse, if it's the best the world has got, it doesn't change the fact it's still sh*thouse.
Prevention is better than the cureHow would you 'help' the victim in this case?
As it stands, she gets $60,000 in compo from the Justice system. What more would you give her, and importantly how on earth would you fund it?
Opinion.Yeah I have, and 5 years is a just sentence for the crime.
Doesn't seem that way to me, there are examples of repeat offenders, it's fair argument that lack of deterrence / consequence has something to do with that.Far from enabling a lack of individual accountability, liberalism ensures it.
Disagree.It's not shithouse,
Agree.it's literally among the best in the world, and other than changing a few things here or there, I wouldn't swap it for literally any other legal system.
So coz I'm not an expert, and don't have the answers, I'm just Joe public, I shouldn't be allowed to criticize the legal system.The fact you cant specify a single thing that needs changing, with evidence to back up your claim is telling.
Prevention is better than the cure
Opinion.
Doesn't seem that way to me, there are examples of repeat offenders, it's fair argument that lack of deterrence / consequence has something to do with that.
So coz I'm not an expert, and don't have the answers, I'm just Joe public, I shouldn't be allowed to criticize the legal system.
Ok I'll stop now.
Never stated or alluded it wasOur Criminal justice system is not responsible for causing violent crime.
Or maybe we should have more social elements in our liberal democracy, you know my view, I think there is lack of accountability, self discipline, consequence, deterrence.If you want to prevent crime from occurring, you should be looking at the education and welfare systems.
If deterrence is not the answer, or at least in part, then I don't know what is, rehabilitation has a part to play but I'd confidently argue that deterrence also has a part to play, and possibly other factors.No, it's not a fair argument and in fact 'lack of deterrent' is an argument Criminologists have repeatedly proven to be largely irrelevant.
Recidivism is down to a myriad of factors, mainly socio economic ones.
Disagree, like you have your opinion, I have mine.No, I'm saying if you're going to make a claim 'this thing is shit' you need to be prepared to back that claim up with actual empirical evidence (peer reviewed papers, actual data etc).
That's not asking too much is it?
Our legal system, which you claim is the worlds best (and trust me I believe you, because you're a lawyer and have studied this obviously), well that being true, doesn't say much about any legal system anywhere on the planet.