Preview The mystery of game plan

[dubber]

I wanted to get your thoughts on our game plan and some stats that are of interest.

Hawks tore our game plan apart by kicking precisely, getting numbers along the boundary and using the corridor. They fell short as they did not capitalise on their forward 50 entries.

Geelong have come up with their own method for countering the press. Its a simple yet very effective method of kicking the ball long thus negating not only the press but also any leg speed advantage we may have over them. They also play on at all costs, moving the ball quickly before a zone can be setup.

According to this article in the age, Collingwood do not hide the fact that their game plan has been figured out.

Collingwood knew this was coming. Malthouse said last weekend that once his team had won a flag with the tactical advantage it created, there would be a reaction.

The long kick-out to the boundary, forcing a stoppage, is one common method of breaking it. Quick movement with short kicking is another. Hawthorn, which set out at the start of the season to break the press, came within a kick of managing it last weekend.

The Age

Question is: Seemingly the pies coaching staff know their game plan will not work this Saturday. How much tweaking will there be considering we have not seen any evidence of a new tactic in recent weeks?
Will we see a improvised version of the press that will surprise the opposition?
​

 

[lgarth80]

Disagree they tore our game plan apart. They only kicked 9 goals.

In the end, there is more to a game plan than just the offensive structures. Sure, they broke down (mainly due I think to the Hawks winning key centre clearances, and being very clean in defence) but the defensive structure was superb.

In many ways the game was played with the "plus one" defender on both sides, and when you are fighting a man down, you will invariably lose the majority of contests.

Hawthorn made better use of their spare early; we made better use later.

Not sure but I'd think Mick will probably go the plus one, will back our mids to win the ball and put it in the front half, then set up the press.

If we win centre clearances and put the ball in the forward 50 enough, get the ball to the boundary and set the press up, it will make a difference.

Where we've come a little unstuck recently has been in bombing long to the area in front of goal and conceding uncontested marks to the opposition. This happened in GF1 last year, we retweaked and turned on a devastating performance the following week.

Hold faith. Our coaches know what they are doing. The main concern for mine is the injuries and game continuity of our players. Not the game plan, which is designed purely and simply to win finals.

 

[larrikan]

After the way we handled round 24...I have suspected all along something will be different GF day.

In saying that though, you cannot change game plans overnight. What I believe has happened is injuries, suspensions and hell bent on blooding young kids right up until the end of the season has meant our structures have been compromised. We haven't had the players consistently on track.

What the media don't get and regular supporters know is "the team" is back. Playing finals footy against two sides who elevated themselves to their absolute best. Saying the press hasn't worked is not entirely true. The game plan with the players who were playing towards the end of the season fell away.

The Cats will need to play with the same intensity as WC and Hawks. That is a big question mark for a team that has coasted into the GF.

The way we win - hit them with everything we've got first quarter - keep the ball in our forward line - and they will begin to second guess themselves. Defensive football wins Grand Finals and it seems like MM and co. have us restricting sides perfectly. Now we need scoreboard pressure.

The media are a joke saying we are out of form - I would accept that if the team was unchanged - Shaw, Thomas and Co. will be far better off for recent runs and remembering our structures under finals conditions. A good example is saying Sidebottom being is out of form. Has anyone considered he has been playing a different role this year and MM might just be happy with his contribution?

The point is we don't know and the media are smashing us.

I can't wait until Sundays papers and they say we were the best side all year and deserved the victory.

 

[dubber]

Disagree they tore our game plan apart. They only kicked 9 goals.

Hold faith. Our coaches know what they are doing. The main concern for mine is the injuries and game continuity of our players. Not the game plan, which is designed purely and simply to win finals.

Well, hawks controlled the game for much of the night, if it wasn't for their inaccuracy and us not playing a more desperate 4th quarter we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I don't think there is any argument that our defense has held up pretty awesomely. Its how we will get it inside 50 and how good will be our conversion rate.
Just having more inside 50s is not going to be enough. As the past 4 grand finals have proven. Need to convert.

As for faith, i have an abundance of it .. My post is not to suggest we don't know what we are doing but more what do the supporters think is going on at the control center. Its intrigues me what the pies are cooking

 

[Kirby]

It's increasingly becoming apparent to me that our fortunes are going to depend upon the output and performance of our small and medium sized forwards.

I have enormous faith in our backline and midfield. I have enormous faith in our two talls in Cloke and Dawes, in that at least they will bring the ball to ground.

We need great games out of Krakouer, Sidebottom, Blair, Beames and Didak. If even two of them can contribute a couple of goals each and ALL maintain the pressure then will win this game.

 

[Sloth]

go down the guts and confuse the shit out of everybody

 

[rose jam]

Against Hawks it was that our intensity was down, we didn't have much spread from stoppages. Nothing to do with game plan.

Against cats we didn't try and got 3 injuries in that game that carried in to the next week with returning players of long lay offs. nothing to do with game plan.

Maxwell picks up the ball, and stops because he thinks he hears the umpires whistle - NO GAME PLAN


We barely press, people got no idea

 

[lgarth80]

It's increasingly becoming apparent to me that our fortunes are going to depend upon the output and performance of our small and medium sized forwards.

I have enormous faith in our backline and midfield. I have enormous faith in our two talls in Cloke and Dawes, in that at least they will bring the ball to ground.

We need great games out of Krakouer, Sidebottom, Blair, Beames and Didak. If even two of them can contribute a couple of goals each and ALL maintain the pressure then will win this game.

Absolutely correct. The smalls are probably an area where we can exploit our opponents.

And dubber, I do think the forwards have struggled and are being panned for it, but the untold story might be in the middle. They are a big reason why we haven't been in the attacking half of the ground in our last 3 matches at more than 50% when we won that stat all bar one time (admittedly v Geel) from R1-23.

Midfield gets the clearance, then everyone swarms forward, and the smalls kick goals.

That's how it's supposed to work, but in the last few weeks, it's seemed to be:
Ruckman loses tap (esp in centre bounce), two quick opposition handballs, one big kick, punch from defence, gather and handball in midfield, quick rebound kick into our 50 marked unopposed by opposition spare back.

Win the centre clearances. Then see what an impact that makes on the rest of the game plan.

 

[upnsmoke]

Buckley sounds like they have (the Pies) have a plan and that plan is for the midfield to win their one on one contest... oh my....





I seriously cannot predict what Pies will do, but I can guarantee Cats will go corridor and go long kicks on most occasion. But they will also throw a wrench on the gears and have someone receive "medium" lenght kicks possibly someone from their defensive line moving forward when the ball travels half way..... Cats are crafty bunch.

 

[upnsmoke]

Against Hawks it was that our intensity was down, we didn't have much spread from stoppages. Nothing to do with game plan.

Against cats we didn't try and got 3 injuries in that game that carried in to the next week with returning players of long lay offs. nothing to do with game plan.

Maxwell picks up the ball, and stops because he thinks he hears the umpires whistle - NO GAME PLAN


We barely press, people got no idea

(1) Against Hawks, O'brien laid a high tackle and Maxwell was expecting a free kick to hawks, didnt want to give a 50 meter penalty so he stopped.... the problem their is the Pies (Maxwell/O'brien) were sleeping and didnt assume Rioli will play on and short kick to a better positioned Hawks player... this happened twice, the other with Heath Shaw allowing Hodge to lose him and receive a kick in a better position in their inside 50.



(2) Eagles is the other team that plays PRESS. They PRESSED against Pies, they PRESSED against Blues.... and they PRESSED against Cats (earlier).... they only won one of those games and by 5 points.


Lesson is... PRESS has a counter.... teams have studied it enough.
The Pies play the PRESS better but not "that much" better than the Eagles.

Bottomline, the PRESS needs to be modified..... for it to have a chance against the Cats.. or a different approach altogether.

 

[Yidaki]

How concerned are we at the fact that Geelong have shat all over the inside 50 counts on both occasions this year?

 

[magpiewarrior]

Friday night against the Hawks, people keep saying we didn't get into it until the last quarter, but at the game I felt that from the 8 min mark in the 3rd we started gettint the upper hand and the Hawks scored a couple against the flow. In the last 1/4 we weren't just working harder and fitter we were swarming again and if the game had gone another 5 mins I reckon we would have won by 3 or 4 goals.
We ran ourselves back into form and on Sat. we will have not only the swarm but also the forward press activated. Krak just like in last years WAFL finals series will follow up a modest PF with a super GF and we will win by about 50 points.
Watching the Rd.24 game it was like we hit them with intensity for 15 mins then 'put the cue back in the rack'. Several times thro-out the rest of the game we had short bursts of play where we tried manourvers (spelling's not my strong point) which I think was just MM testing the waters to see that we could halt Geelongs flow but not giving anything away to them. MM has worked hard to make sure our boys don't go in too cocky and that Geelong just might.
Fear not the master has all in hand.

 

[upnsmoke]

How concerned are we at the fact that Geelong have shat all over the inside 50 counts on both occasions this year?

I am very concerned.

Because Cats get their inside 50s through them beating the Press, it starts from their half back line moving the ball through the corridor using 1-2 LONG kicks. They do this almost every time they are going forward direction.
Other teams just cannot setup quick enough to prevent the ball then being contested one on one or with a Cats spare man waiting in the 30-40 meter zone.


The Cats forwards also tend to LEAD once they their Half back defenders have the ball at the defensive 60m zone... one or 2 kicks later the ball finds this lead.


Pies need to almost shut down 2 areas at the same time to prevent the onslaught of Cats.

 

[entourage]

I still don't understand how the Hawks game plan smashed us on Friday night but it was evident that was the case. As soon as one Hawk had the ball you could straight away see a line of them with Pies players nowhere to be seen, or else caught between two Hawks and away they went. It was a very different style of play to what we're used to from hawthorn there was surprisingly few chips around the back line, they just got the ball, their players split and you could spot gaps everywhere. It kind of reminded me of the Adelaide game, where by the end of it the players were spent and ours picked up the slack.

I can't imagine Geelong doing anything similar on Saturday, they don't have the speed to keep it up for long enough and i honestly think the kick long thing will simply not work. Maxy is playing for starters (unlike last time) and is in peak form, leon (also didn't play last time) will be there to snare the crum and break the lines off HB, throw heater there as well and add Daisy in the mix who tends to have spells down back and it's a completely different dynamic.

Our back line is solid and won't we beaten by just kicking long, this is as cliche as its gets but it's up to the mids, if the Cats win it out of the middle enough our backline will only hold up for so long.

This is a completely different team that played geelong last time, and a completely different back line..


Our structure worked well against the cats in rnd 24 up until a point, and no-one knows why that is, whether we just let go etc. or whatever it doesn't matter, but the point is these inclusions allow us to execute the game plan the way we want and everyone that's had a bit of time off had the game they needed vs the Hawks to prime them for the big day. My confidence grows every day about Saturday.

 

[upnsmoke]

I still don't understand how the Hawks game plan smashed us on Friday night but it was evident that was the case. As soon as one Hawk had the ball you could straight away see a line of them with Pies players nowhere to be seen, or else caught between two Hawks and away they went. It was a very different style of play to what we're used to from hawthorn there was surprisingly few chips around the back line, they just got the ball, their players split and you could spot gaps everywhere. It kind of reminded me of the Adelaide game, where by the end of it the players were spent and ours picked up the slack.

I can't imagine Geelong doing anything similar on Saturday, they don't have the speed to keep it up for long enough and i honestly think the kick long thing will simply not work. Maxy is playing for starters (unlike last time) and is in peak form, leon (also didn't play last time) will be there to snare the crum and break the lines off HB, throw heater there as well and add Daisy in the mix who tends to have spells down back and it's a completely different dynamic.

Our back line is solid and won't we beaten by just kicking long, this is as cliche as its gets but it's up to the mids, if the Cats win it out of the middle enough our backline will only hold up for so long.

This is a completely different team that played geelong last time, and a completely different back line..


Our structure worked well against the cats in rnd 24 up until a point, and no-one knows why that is, whether we just let go etc. or whatever it doesn't matter, but the point is these inclusions allow us to execute the game plan the way we want and everyone that's had a bit of time off had the game they needed vs the Hawks to prime them for the big day. My confidence grows every day about Saturday.

(1) Round 24, the Cats had more scoring opportunities in the 1st quarter, missed a couple that was 50/50 and had a goal taken away (Pods).

But you can tell the Cats had gaps to received the ball in their forward 50.


2nd quarter... the result of LONG kicks = 4-5 goals in 3 mnutes because Defense is not setup yet.


And notice Christensen and Stokes are always facing the marking contest in their forward 50?... so a punch out from the defenders or if the ball spills out.... these 2 ferrets will line it up for a scoring shot....

Magpies need to KNOW this.... flood the defensive 50 if they must.... or simply attack the cats defense so they get busy defending as opposed to scoring.

Clearance need to be won....

 

[dubber]

(1) Round 24, the Cats had more scoring opportunities in the 1st quarter, missed a couple that was 50/50 and had a goal taken away (Pods).

But you can tell the Cats had gaps to received the ball in their forward 50.


2nd quarter... the result of LONG kicks = 4-5 goals in 3 mnutes because Defense is not setup yet.


And notice Christensen and Stokes are always facing the marking contest in their forward 50?... so a punch out from the defenders or if the ball spills out.... these 2 ferrets will line it up for a scoring shot....

Magpies need to KNOW this.... flood the defensive 50 if they must.... or simply attack the cats defense so they get busy defending as opposed to scoring.

Clearance need to be won....

Just a note ; The last four grand finals the team that had more inside 50s went on to lose or draw. The winner was the one with less inside 50s but was more accurate with their conversion.

So i am not disagreeing with you but i also don't think its as simple as pumping it inside 50, you better convert or it could cost you the flag.

 

[entourage]

I was referring to when we were up 4 goals to zip, then we fell away int he 2nd half of the qtr, and yes matthew cokes and Christensen will face goal and crum, but having Leon down there will help counter that immensely compared to last time, along with maxy who is a fairly smart spoiler of the ball.

But yes, clearances is where this is at, too many lost and our back line will eventually give way.

 

[entourage]

Good point dubber, never heard that statistic. I think our back line is strong enough to force some awkward shots on goal for them and the rebound power it'll have vs last time is undeniably much, much stronger.

 

[esc0bar]

Does anyone know where i can get a copy of the round 24 game for my analysis?

 

[dubber]

Does anyone know where i can get a copy of the round 24 game for my analysis?

I watched in on youtube, there are 4 parts in good quality, i can post a link when i get home as no tube access from work

 

[lgarth80]

Does anyone know where i can get a copy of the round 24 game for my analysis?

The Recycle Bin?

 

[cleomenes]

The press works if the ball is in our forward line, i.e. if the midfield has done the necessary to get it there. Plan A.

We did not get much chance to do a lot of this against the Hawks in the first three quarters. The were clearing the centre, not us.

We attack around the wings with carefully structured running that gets a player in front to mark clear of his opponent with enough time to turn and pass to the next runner. Plan B

Hawthorn shut this down for three quarters by ensuring that nobody got free enough to take those passes without pressure.

Look at the replays to see Leon Davis looking up to pass to the next guy and seeing everyone manned up, and often the leading player of each two from Hawthorn.

This is why his kicking didn't hit so many targets - the targets were not available.

By quarter 4, the hawks players had exhausted themselves making those contests and couldn't do it any longer. We were close enough to get back in.

I don't know if Geelong can or will play that game.

If we get stomped on in the middle, it won't matter.

 

[Kirby]

^ Leon copped a bit of criticism for his kicking against the Hawks but I thought at the game, and on watching the replay, that he never had any clear targets and ran out of room.

There was really only one poor kick and that was the lazy one across the ground to Krak that went over his head.

 

[Ed D]

There was another article on The Age saying that all the lead up going into the GF means nothing and both teams will play a different brand of football.

ALL week you have been inundated with statistics about how Collingwood and Geelong have played this year and what it will mean for Saturday's decider. There's only one problem: it might not mean anything.

The notion that grand finals are tighter and more intensely fought than any regular-season match is no myth. It means, though, that the statistics that are so effective at predicting winners and losers in every other week suddenly go haywire.

Across the past seven deciders — including the two held last year — the season-wide trends for many key statistical categories become secondary to trends in grand finals.

The biggest shifts to look out for on Saturday, based on precedent, will be a sharp increase in the proportion of possessions that are contested, a hefty fall in average scores and a restriction on the percentage of scoring shots from teams delivering inside their 50-metre arc.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-statistics-20110928-1kxm5.html#ixzz1ZKWnhjDX

In reading that I'm feeling the Pies have the advantage of playing 2 finals in GF intensity and getting through them without playing at their peak.

 

[esc0bar]

I watched in on youtube, there are 4 parts in good quality, i can post a link when i get home as no tube access from work

Thanks mate i found it