Play Nice The NM Devil's Chessboard Thread - Part II

[Sphynx]

 

[Chadwiko]

You said that palestinians were massacred by Shia Lebanese.

This is a conflict between armed groups.

There's nothing in that video about massacres, just groups fighting. The women and children were alive ffs.

They are different things. The other massacres by the Phalangists are called massacres because after the seige and conflict ended one group killed as many of the survivors as they could.

Okay you clearly have your head in the sand on this issue for some reason and are hearing what you want to hear.

I'm done.

I'm content to stick with the academics, experts, and primary sources on the issue.

 

[Chadwiko]

How it started:







How it's going:







If only anyone could have seen the utter failure of Libertarian populist bullshit coming from a mile away!

 

[Chadwiko]

Apparently Hashem Safieddine, who likely would have been the new Hezbollah leader, was also taken out by an IDF airstrike in Beirut recently.

 

[ferball]

Okay you clearly have your head in the sand on this issue for some reason and are hearing what you want to hear.

I'm done.

I'm content to stick with the academics, experts, and primary sources on the issue.

None of which you've provided that support a massacre.

You were trying to claim some nuance about air strikes the other day but you can't apply it now. There was fighting at Sabra for example and as soon as it fell Amal declared a cease fire. This is not what happens during a massacre. Furthermore you haven't provided one primary source on the situation but instead relied on the word of someone who was at Princeton at the time and has an obvious agenda.

 

[Chadwiko]

None of which you've provided that support a massacre.

 

[ferball]

Racist imagery. Nice.

 

[Chadwiko]

Racist imagery. Nice.

Nothing racist about it. Just a meme.

Plenty racism involved in denying facts based on the nationality of sources though.

Clown.

 

[andana]

How are those stats going about Australia being the world leader in domestic violence?

Albanese is the only world leader I can find who has said domestic violence is a national crisis, an epidemic

 

[andana]

The greatest country in the world

Where are your stats? Or anything.

How's the housing crisis going. Having a home is a basic right.
Coles and Woolies ripoffs
Bank ripoffs
Robodebt
Unfair family court judgements
Royal Commissions that go nowhere
Boredom. No life in those happy valley suburbs.

Only someone who doesn't know any better would think Australia was great

The down side of travelling is I often get stuck next to a grumpy shackledragger complaining about how Australia has gone bad and they say they are never going back there.

 

[the big lebowski]

Where are your stats? Or anything.

How's the housing crisis going. Having a home is a basic right.
Coles and Woolies ripoffs
Bank ripoffs
Robodebt
Unfair family court judgements
Royal Commissions that go nowhere
Boredom. No life in those happy valley suburbs.

Only someone who doesn't know any better would think Australia was great

The down side of travelling is I often get stuck next to a grumpy shackledragger complaining about how Australia has gone bad and they say they are never going back there.

I’m not going to argue Australia doesn’t have problems.

Everywhere has problems of some sort

But …………

The Most Liveable Cities in the World in 2024: Discover Top Quality of Life Locations Globally

Find out which cities are deemed the most liveable in the world in 2024 by the Economist Intelligence Unit.

www.archdaily.com

Melbourne is the 4th most liveable city and Sydney the 7th

For many years Melbourne was no 1

Melbourne received a score of 97.5 out of 100 on the annual list, which assesses stability, healthcare, culture and environment, education and infrastructure in 140 different cities.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/worlds-most-livable-cities-2017/index.html

 

[Liam Boy]

How it started:


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How it's going:

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View attachment 2150041



If only anyone could have seen the utter failure of Libertarian populist bullshit coming from a mile away!

This is really a massive success for the Argentinian right, it's similar what Temer and Bolsonaro did in Brazil; they want austerity because they're against social progress and anything that would cause them to lose their elite status. The goal was always to kneecap social progress by pushing out the popular centre-left government, then deploying crippling neoliberal austerity to ensure that once those popular centre-left governments get back in, they're hamstrung and can't deploy their policies that benefit the people. IMF loans are a common way of doing this. Bolivia is another good example, when Jeanine Anez took over in the 2019 coup she immediately took out an IMF loan which the MAS government had to give back upon returning to power:

https://www.reuters.com/article/markets/us/bolivia-returns-350-mln-to-imf-after-irregular-and-onerous-loan-idUSL1N2KO025/

Milei is a ridiculous moron as a person and he's certainly not what they expected, just like Bolsonaro wasn't what the Brazilian right and their international backers expected, but he's served his purpose. And if the CIA didn't have its fingers in this pie at some point I'd be surprised. They certainly did in Brazil and more than likely also Bolivia. They want every country in the global south to be paying off IMF loans because it forces them into the US's circle of influence.

 

[Chadwiko]

This is really a massive success for the Argentinian right, it's similar what Temer and Bolsonaro did in Brazil; they want austerity because they're against social progress and anything that would cause them to lose their elite status. The goal was always to kneecap social progress by pushing out the popular centre-left government, then deploying crippling neoliberal austerity to ensure that once those popular centre-left governments get back in, they're hamstrung and can't deploy their policies that benefit the people. IMF loans are a common way of doing this. Bolivia is another good example, when Jeanine Anez took over in the 2019 coup she immediately took out an IMF loan which the MAS government had to give back upon returning to power:

https://www.reuters.com/article/markets/us/bolivia-returns-350-mln-to-imf-after-irregular-and-onerous-loan-idUSL1N2KO025/

Milei is a ridiculous moron as a person and he's certainly not what they expected, just like Bolsonaro wasn't what the Brazilian right and their international backers expected, but he's served his purpose. And if the CIA didn't have its fingers in this pie at some point I'd be surprised. They certainly did in Brazil and more than likely also Bolivia. They want every country in the global south to be paying off IMF loans because it forces them into the US's circle of influence.

Generally agree with most of that, but at the same time I think you're over-cooking it.

I don't think Milei or Bolsonaro or Anez are deep-state plants or anything.

They're just... idiots. Voted in by idiots.

 

[Liam Boy]

Anez wasn't voted in by anyone, she took power in a violent coup by declaring herself president, she immediately lost as soon as she was forced to call an election because of the overwhelming organisation and popularity of MAS. And there's abundant evidence that the US was involved in Operation Car Wash/Lava Jato, the corrupt judicial process that was used to overthrow the Workers' Party in Brazil:

The Secret History of U.S. Involvement in Brazil’s Operation Car Wash

Leaked chat logs show that Brazilian prosecutors evaded treaties to help the U.S. Justice Department investigate Brazilian corporations.

theintercept.com

 

[tazaa]

Sorry brother. I know you mean well, but what you've said here is unfortunately not at all accurate.

Egypt especially.

Hang on

Based on what?

If you are are referring US aid for example then that is a political decision countries like Egypt and Jordan have taken. Hurts their bottom line too much to go against the grain.

If you are referring to Egypt not wanting Palestinians to come into Sinai then yes of course they don't want that.
You need to understand the view of the Arab world is that the Holy Land is Palestine to them and its for Christians, Jews and Muslims.

If the Christian and Muslim Arab population are all expelled, then they have no right of return and will never be able to go back. Hence neighbouring countries have to harbour more refugees.

The mentality amongst Arab nations when it comes to Palestinians is that there is this underlying mindset that they allowed Zionism to creep into Palestine when they allowed land to be bought and purchased between the 1st and 2nd World Wars and because of this its up to the Palestinians to fix the problem. Its toxic because the wave of the Zionist movement was too strong to handle.
The Nakhba caught them all by surprise. And here we are.

I can guarantee you Palestinian statehood would be welcomed by all in the region because it would be biggest single step of progress the region has seen in 76 years.

Sadly though we may as well be discussing fairy tales cause none of this shit is ever gonna happen in our lifetime.

 

[Chadwiko]

Hang on

Based on what?

Based on Egypt's hatred of the Muslim Brotherhood, and the Hamas ties to the movement.

The last thing Egypt wants is a Muslim Brotherhood Army on their border.

 

[ferball]

Nothing racist about it. Just a meme.

Plenty racism involved in denying facts based on the nationality of sources though.

Clown.

I think you'll find its very racist reflecting Jim Crow and blackface tropes, which were after all, just memes.

Also last time I checked the US state department wasn't a race, just an organisation that frames everything on earth in terms of supporting its interests.

All you have to do is find one source that documents the Lebanese Shia murdering civilians en masse (ie time/date, location and numbers. Numbers during a three or four year conflict between armed groups don't count.) That's all you have to do to convince me.

 

[Chadwiko]

I think you'll find its very racist reflecting Jim Crow and blackface tropes, which were after all, just memes.

You're an insane person (and quite frankly, a weird racist) if your position is that black people aren't allowed to be included in the use of memes.

Are these quite classic memes/reaction GIFs 'racist' to you?

 

[Chadwiko]

All you have to do is find one source that documents the Lebanese Shia murdering civilians en masse (ie time/date, location and numbers. Numbers during a three or four year conflict between armed groups don't count.) That's all you have to do to convince me.

You're an idiot. Plain and simple.

It's called the 'War of the Camps'. 'CAMPS' being refugee camps. It's not the 'War of the PLO vs Amal', or 'War of the Good Soldiers vs Bad Soldiers'. It was REFUGEE CAMPS.

You're asking for specific and precise descriptions of individual massacres in the context of a brutal and bloody conflict? Did you even read the link I sent you (twice) yesterday? It says the following in plain English:

Generally speaking, the historiography of the war has not been devoted to precise descriptions of massacres, body counts or debates over responsibility. Histories of the early war by writers such as Deeb (1980), Petran (1987) and Cobban (1985) stress how sectarian divisions in the political elite and the population led to a level of divisiveness that condoned indiscriminate killing of “others”.​

and

Although the famous massacres of the war were very serious instances of mass violence, they tend to overshadow less prolific forms of violence that became an “habitual” part of life during the war. Part of this habitual violence took place between soldiers and militiamen. It is impossible to make a neat distinction between legitimate violence during battles and indiscriminate violence against civilians and combatants.​

If that's too complicated for you, then I'll dumb it down even further.

The War of the Camps is included on a list literally titled "List of Massacres in Lebanon"

 

[tazaa]

Based on Egypt's hatred of the Muslim Brotherhood, and the Hamas ties to the movement.

The last thing Egypt wants is a Muslim Brotherhood Army on their border.

But Hamas is already on their border. It has been for 2 decades.

The Muslim Brotherhood Army is no longer violent in nature as well in its current form in Egypt.

If Hamas was such a threat and Egypt was concerned, the last time I checked the most recent attacks on Egypt were by Al-Qaeda in 2012.

Much of your understanding on this is historic in nature.

 

[Chadwiko]

But Hamas is already on their border. It has been for 2 decades.

And why do you think, despite Gaza being terribly and horribly besieged at the hands of Israel, Egypt has been steadfast in their refusal to open the Rafah border?

The Muslim Brotherhood Army is no longer violent in nature as well in its current form in Egypt.

This came at an extremely heavy and bloody cost to Egypt, and one they are adamant they want to avoid ever reoccurring.

If Hamas was such a threat and Egypt was concerned, the last time I checked the most recent attacks on Egypt were by Al-Qaeda in 2012.

Suggest you read up on the violence that occurred in Egypt in 2012-2013, that resulted in the highest number of casualties in Egypt's modern history, and literally hundreds and hundreds of Muslim Brotherhood members being sentenced to death alongside something like 15000-20000 Muslim Brotherhood members jailed. Also resulted in the execution of former President Morsi.

Much of your understanding on this is historic in nature.

Yeah, nah.

 

[ferball]

You're an idiot. Plain and simple.

It's called the 'War of the Camps'. 'CAMPS' being refugee camps. It's not the 'War of the PLO vs Amal', or 'War of the Good Soldiers vs Bad Soldiers'. It was REFUGEE CAMPS.

You're asking for specific and precise descriptions of individual massacres in the context of a brutal and bloody conflict? Did you even read the link I sent you (twice) yesterday? It says the following in plain English:

Generally speaking, the historiography of the war has not been devoted to precise descriptions of massacres, body counts or debates over responsibility. Histories of the early war by writers such as Deeb (1980), Petran (1987) and Cobban (1985) stress how sectarian divisions in the political elite and the population led to a level of divisiveness that condoned indiscriminate killing of “others”.​

and

Although the famous massacres of the war were very serious instances of mass violence, they tend to overshadow less prolific forms of violence that became an “habitual” part of life during the war. Part of this habitual violence took place between soldiers and militiamen. It is impossible to make a neat distinction between legitimate violence during battles and indiscriminate violence against civilians and combatants.​

If that's too complicated for you, then I'll dumb it down even further.

The War of the Camps is included on a list literally titled "List of Massacres in Lebanon"
View attachment 2150281

It is impossible to make a neat distinction between legitimate violence during battles and indiscriminate violence against civilians and combatants.

So no massacres then. Okay.

 

[Chadwiko]

So no massacres then. Okay.

Racist.

 

[ferball]

You're an insane person (and quite frankly, a weird racist) if your position is that black people aren't allowed to be included in the use of memes.

Are these quite classic memes/reaction GIFs 'racist' to you?

View attachment 2150262


View attachment 2150263


View attachment 2150264


View attachment 2150265


View attachment 2150267

None of them contain this:

Characters drawn in this style have solid black skin, exaggerated red or white lips, and unrealistically round white eyes. This is very much a Discredited Trope due to its racist origins,

View attachment 1729652776500.webp

 

[Chadwiko]

None of them contain this:

Neither does the original meme I posted, and if you're implying that a photo of a black man is akin to blackface you're racist. Plain and simple.