Oppo Camp The Non-North Footy Discussion & Matchday Chat Thread (NNFD&MCT) VII

[Only Forwards]

The AFL & Worksafe signed off on this post camp. I wonder if they had the full details.

If the stuff about meeting with counsellors and then having the counsellors disclose that info to others was signed off on then both organisations are pretty f***ed.

 

[King Corey]

The AFL & Worksafe signed off on this post camp. I wonder if they had the full details.

Can only guess they talked a good talk to the Adelaide people who hired them and had somehow got some decent references together. It's hard to imagine Pyke et al aimed to find the most offensive, divisive program they could.

It's bloody unlucky for their club it turned out this way. I'd guess every club has played around with variations of - SAS/tough love/Navy Seal/insert hard man motif of choice - without their teams blowing apart after a cluster**** like this. Doubt clubs ever demand a full runsheet from camp organisers on exactly what they'll be implementing.

Off the top of my head our boys were sent off for a military camp that would've had the same typical harden up/bonding thing at its core circa 2006-7.

Note: not excusing the camp conduct, only wondering aloud how the hell this came to be.

 

[Only Forwards]

Off the top of my head our boys were sent off for a military camp that would've had the same typical harden up/bonding thing at its core circa 2006-7.

pre season for 2007.

Dish spoke about needing to carry around a hunk of metal that emulated needing to carry a gun.

 

[Val Keating]

Can only guess they talked a good talk to the Adelaide people who hired them and had somehow got some decent references together. It's hard to imagine Pyke et al aimed to find the most offensive, divisive program they could.

It's bloody unlucky for their club it turned out this way. I'd guess every club has played around with variations of - SAS/tough love/Navy Seal/insert hard man motif of choice - without their teams blowing apart after a cluster**** like this. Doubt clubs ever demand a full runsheet from camp organisers on exactly what they'll be implementing.

Off the top of my head our boys were sent off for a military camp that would've had the same typical harden up/bonding thing at its core circa 2006-7.

Note: not excusing the camp conduct, only wondering aloud how the hell this came to be.

But then they’ve been on the front foot denying the stories about the camp. Even made the Age apologies for reporting on it. They haven’t owned it at all. Even today Roo was dismissive of it.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Can only guess they talked a good talk to the Adelaide people who hired them and had somehow got some decent references together. It's hard to imagine Pyke et al aimed to find the most offensive, divisive program they could.

It's bloody unlucky for their club it turned out this way. I'd guess every club has played around with variations of - SAS/tough love/Navy Seal/insert hard man motif of choice - without their teams blowing apart after a cluster**** like this. Doubt clubs ever demand a full runsheet from camp organisers on exactly what they'll be implementing.

Off the top of my head our boys were sent off for a military camp that would've had the same typical harden up/bonding thing at its core circa 2006-7.

Note: not excusing the camp conduct, only wondering aloud how the hell this came to be.

There are ways to be pushed mentally and physically that don’t involve closely guarded secrets and fears being hurled at you whilst being ridden like a $100-1 shot in the 3rd at Gundagai.

 

[blackshadow]

I reckon there might be a couple of class action lawyers who've decided today is a good day to idly browse new holiday homes/yachts...

 

[King Corey]

There are ways to be pushed mentally and physically that don’t involve closely guarded secrets and fears being hurled at you whilst being ridden like a $100-1 shot in the 3rd at Gundagai.

Obviously. My point relates to how this came into existence - I don't imagine the Adelaide coaching panel wanted or sought this degree of humiliation for their players so how the hell did it get through so far unchecked?

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Obviously. My point relates to how this came into existence - I don't imagine the Adelaide coaching panel wanted or sought this degree of humiliation for their players so how the hell did it get through so far unchecked?

Yeah, wasn’t a dig at all.

I hold these types of groups in absolute contempt.

They’re preying on groups that are seeking an ‘edge’ and ‘the extra 1%’.

**** them to Timbuktu.

 

[Val Keating]

Obviously. My point relates to how this came into existence - I don't imagine the Adelaide coaching panel wanted or sought this degree of humiliation for their players so how the hell did it get through so far unchecked?

That’s just as bad. Signing off on something where you don’t know what is going to take place at the camp?

 

[King Corey]

But then they’ve been on the front foot denying the stories about the camp. Even made the Age apologies for reporting on it. They haven’t owned it at all. Even today Roo was dismissive of it.

I have no reason to excuse Adelaide on this. Declaring it an unacceptable camp is a given, only a psycho would conclude otherwise based on the evidence presented.

If they've since tried to brush it under the carpet that's a separate sin. But the thing I'm trying to zero in on is - what did they THINK they were signing their club up for and at what stage would it have filtered through to the club's coaching/leadership hierarchy that there was some pretty questionable stuff going on?

If none of this immediately went back to Pyke & Co that's one level of negligence. But if they were right in there amongst this conduct then that's a whole lot of different misconduct.

We could send our players off to a leadership course without knowing they would be presented with a leather bound copy of Mein Kampf at the end. That wouldn't mean we endorsed those values. So am interested in whether the camp organisers went rogue or Adelaide were boneheadedly stupid making this selection.

 

[King Corey]

That’s just as bad. Signing off on something where you don’t know what is going to take place at the camp?

It's negligent but my original point was that these silly camps have been around in various incarnations for a long time and I doubt many clubs were screening them too much along the way.

They might be a bit more alert now though. Hopefully.

 

[Devington]

They're footballers, not soldiers. People, not cogs in a machine.

The program sounded like the type of shit some military groups would use to break groups of men so they could rebuild them in the desired mould. You're also not going to get jack shit out of it if it's only for a few days.

So much stupidity at so many different points along the journey. The stance, blaming facial expressions coming through the banner for a loss, literally everything about the camp, demoting Betts from the leadership group after raising complaints. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

My biggest question is still how the facilitators got off completely free of consequences after the phone counselling sessions had their confidentiality breached in horrific ways. Surely it was either major professional ethics violations or they outright lied about their qualifications and how the information would be handled? Either case should have had ramifications.

 

[ferball]

I've never been involved with a corporate that does anything remotely like this. If they did, I'd be telling them to * right off.

Seen my share of motivational speakers and management advisors that are absolute w*nkers, but nothing like this turgid crap

Yeah it seems to be like a weird cult that exists inside corporate culture more than an actual part of the culture. I knew a guy who used to work in London in finance and they'd all go off on company sposored Auyahuasca journeys and shit. I asked him if he was for real and apparently everyone does it.

I know someone else who's a bit of a conspiracy theorist into this shit. Mind control and whatnot. Funny how many of those motivational speakers and the like are connected to the spooks this fella I know was into studying about.

Its pretty wild actually, so much crazy stuff. The guy who was first exposed to magic mushrooms in Mexico (tho they've been a European thing for centuries among a bunch of poets and other artists,) Wasson, had guys on his expedition who were reporting back to the CIA on the potential of shrooms for brainwashing etc etc. Same with their research into LSD. You can get film of some of the experiments with acid on US soldiers on youtube. Some of it is ****ed up. Some of it is hilarious.

The scene where this guy is locked in a small white cubicle tripping off his face and this researchers voice comes over a mike and says "What time is it?" and the poor soldier just loses it trying to process the concept of time and what "time is "it". Watching drill seargents trying to order squads of soldiers to do rill while they are tripping is funny as tho. They can't take it seriously. This thing with the Crows sounds like a similar level of farce.

 

[ferball]

Sound leadership theory is that as a collective you need to be able to have a space where people feel safe enough to fail and be vulnerable but trust enough that the people surrounding you have your best interests at heart and will help you through the dips.

The NMFC team of the had this exact thing tied to our drinking culture.

If we won by 100 points they'd all go get smashed. Revel in it and rock up on Monday pushing each other to do it again.

If we lost by a bunch, they'd all go and get smashed, lament the loss, rock up on Monday pushing each other to not do it again.

The bounds of what leading teams style stuff is trying to do is create a centre within the team to be able to connect even when things aren't going you way so that as a collective people can get better.

Reading this stuff though the way the Adelaide camp went about if it f***ing bizarre. How can you have a place of trust when before you start to build it the trust has been breached by the people running the camp. This doesn't sound like leadership, this sounds much closer to the MO of Scientology, tell us your secrets and we will trap you with them.

The thing I truly believe that corporates/consultancies miss is that people are human. Teams are made up of humans, and trying to force people to be vulnerable is ridiculous and clearly as shown by the output of this dangerous to people's mental health.

In a lot of ways the 90s boys getting on the piss was unhealthy and created implosions of its own, but there is an argument that it is no more unhealthy than some of what these consultancies look to do.

Probably more healthy really. Considering a few of them would have been pretty ****ed up to begin. Schwatta and Duck for example.

Re the bolded. Its the MO of alot of those cult thingees. Someone developed some technique in the US in the 60s where everyone sits around and attacks one person, breaks them down then after they've broken down the people behave supportivvely and its sposed to build people back up again, its got a name but I can't remember it, anyway it turns up alot. Its tied to the idea of shithead drill seargents breaking down new recruits in military units especially elite ones. Most of these forms of applied abuse get used in some form of brainwashing, whether its cult rlated, sales related or the military.

 

[ferball]

The man they had who called himself Richmond and kept trying to scare them is hilarious. Like WTF.

Like the IT crowd?

 

[Val Keating]

Like the IT crowd?

Apparently he’d jump out and try to scare them, like RAHHH IM RICHMOND. Bonkers

 

[giantroo]

 

[ferball]

Apparently he’d jump out and try to scare them, like RAHHH IM RICHMOND. Bonkers

A bit like this...

 

[Val Keating]

A bit like this...

Worse. Even more corny

 

[giantroo]

The Betts interview on AFL360 is hard to watch. He's holding back tears.

 

[LB2Snake]

I just realised that Kelli Underwood is impersonating Dennis Commetti. She uses similar vocal patterns and is also pretty much quoting his catchphrases in lieu of actual commentating.

Sounds much more rehearsed than DC ever did. Do not rate.

 

[koshari]

The leading teams style ‘consulting’ is the biggest con going around.

Rentseeking 101.

 

[koshari]

He claimed he did once. I remember cos I did something similar. Applied for officer training 35 years ago ... this week probably (wow) sometime in August anyway. They said "Come back when you learn how to take orders."

(I blitzed everything else tho so they were keen for me to come back. Good thing I grew up in the meantime.)

His wisdom definately defies his years.....








:Sternlook

 

[koshari]

It’s the corporate world’s version of Homeopathy.

Or chiropractory, religion or reiki, etc etc, the terms are all interchangable

 

[Forever North]

So much respect and admiration for Eddie. Left shaking my head AGAIN after seeing his interview tonight. Speaks from the heart. The real shame is the cover up and deflection AGAIN from the AFL and Crows over this guru leadership shite. Just protect the brand at all costs….