The Official Bigfooty NBA week 2 thread - Spit gate

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Pykie said:
ESPN and Sport Illustrated rated him at #52 and #55 in the NBA in pre-season respectively.

Given his start to the season, it's not a stretch to suggest he's in the top 30 atm. There certainly aren't "easily" 30 players better than Joe Ingles in the NBA at the moment.

So Bogut was a premier defender, yet Ingles is just a "good" shooter? He broke the Jazz's franchise record last year for 3pt'ers made and was 4th in the NBA in 3pt shooting, which he also did the year before.

I think you are completely overrating Bogut's impact on GSW, he was a major reason? No, that would be Steph Curry and Klay Thompson, I think the fact they haven't missed a beat without him probably illustrates this. He only averaged 24 minutes a game at Golden State in the games he played, that's not a key player in any sense of the word.

Bogut's peak as a player was at the Bucks, not Golden State, he only averaged 6.3/10.0/2.7 with 1.7 bpg in their championship year.

Compare that to 09' at the Bucks when he averaged 15.9/10.2/1.8 and 2.5 bpg.


Either way, Inlges is a far more important player, in a better side that Bogut was at the Bucks.

FWIW, "also did it far longer than Ingles so far", Bogut played 694 games in the NBA, Ingles has already racked up 326 games at the start of a season he looks like playing virtually every one of.

At the end of next year, he wont be far off Bogut's entire NBA career games tally.
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We have a sample size of two games. No one should be jumping him 20 spots based on 2 of 82 games. Need to see where he settles after 20 games. If he's still breathing fire he certainly is top 30.

Fair. Bogut was a premier defender for 7 years, Ingles has been not just good but an elite shooter for 1 and a bit years. Maybe 2 if you just want to look at his 3PG% and ignore the 7 Points per game in 2016-17.

You can't use Bogut's stat line to truly measure where his peak was. His role on the Bucks compared to the Warriors was entirely different, especially offensively, and I think its a disservice to Bogut to say where his peak was based on his raw stat line.

It's also a little disingenuous to cite the games played. About half of Ingles games played is him doing not much and by the end of next year he's still ~200 games behind Bogut. You can blame Quin Snyder for that early struggle if you like but its still on Ingles that he had a fair amount of rotation minutes and was just replacement level.

Ingles is a bloody great story but he's not near Bogut's career yet. If he produces at above his 2017-18 level all the way through to the end of 2019-20 then it starts to become a conversation. Until then, he just doesn't have enough on the board.
 

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PHX said:
We have a sample size of two games. No one should be jumping him 20 spots based on 2 of 82 games. Need to see where he settles after 20 games. If he's still breathing fire he certainly is top 30.

Fair. Bogut was a premier defender for 7 years, Ingles has been not just good but an elite shooter for 1 and a bit years. Maybe 2 if you just want to look at his 3PG% and ignore the 7 Points per game in 2016-17.

You can't use Bogut's stat line to truly measure where his peak was. His role on the Bucks compared to the Warriors was entirely different, especially offensively, and I think its a disservice to Bogut to say where his peak was based on his raw stat line.

It's also a little disingenuous to cite the games played. About half of Ingles games played is him doing not much and by the end of next year he's still ~200 games behind Bogut. You can blame Quin Snyder for that early struggle if you like but its still on Ingles that he had a fair amount of rotation minutes and was just replacement level.

Ingles is a bloody great story but he's not near Bogut's career yet. If he produces at above his 2017-18 level all the way through to the end of 2019-20 then it starts to become a conversation. Until then, he just doesn't have enough on the board.
Click to expand...


Sorry, Ingles actually averages virtually the same minutes per game as Bogut at the moment across both of their careers to date.

So if Ingles played games "of not doing much", so did Bogut.

There's a fair bit of rewritten history with Bogut, he was pretty good for a small section of his Bucks career and slotted in as a decent cog of a very very good team, one of the best of the modern era, he was a role player.

Luc Longley averaged 10.1/5.8/2.5 and 1.3 bpg during his Bulls rings.

It dwarfs Bogut's stats on the Warriors, was Longley a key player for that great Bulls side?
 
Pykie said:
Sorry, Ingles actually averages virtually the same minutes per game as Bogut at the moment across both of their careers to date.

So if Ingles played games "of not doing much", so did Bogut.

There's a fair bit of rewritten history with Bogut, he was pretty good for a small section of his Bucks career and slotted in as a decent cog of a very very good team, one of the best of the modern era, he was a role player.

Luc Longley averaged 10.1/5.8/2.5 and 1.3 bpg during his Bulls rings.

It dwarfs Bogut's stats on the Warriors, was Longley a key player for that great Bulls side?
Click to expand...

Longley isn't anywhere near Bogut fwiw. Watching the game you could see just how important Bogut was for how the Warriors played.

Also I'm not sure how 9.9/5.5/2.4/1.3 dwarfs Bogut's 6.3/8.4/2.2/1.7 :huh: - Note - You had the wrong stats for Longley as well.

Particularly since Longley played an extra 3.5 minutes a game and Bogut shot 14% (yes, 14%) better from the floor.

Throw in that Bogut was all defensive for one of those season (probably makes it all 3 seasons if not for injuries).

Longley had one season he averaged 10 or more points (Bogut had 6). Longley had 1 season he averaged 10 rebounds (Bogut had 4). Longley had zero seasons he shot better than 50% from the floor (Bogut had 8).

I can go on.

You've spoken about "rewritten history" for Bogut, which is weird because that is exactly what happened with Longley. Guy was a bust. Got himself in a great situation at the Bulls and, while he did his job, it covers up the rest of his (very average) career.

Bogut made both an All NBA team and an All NBA defensive team. No other Australian player has even been in consideration for one of those teams in any season. That will likely change shortly with Simmons, but it shows that Bogut's peak is a lot higher than any other Aussie.
 
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The Official Bigfooty NBA week 2 thread - Spit gate

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