The Manager Merry-go-Round

[Jatz]

No argument the football was poor to watch, and I think he’d get found out if he went to a club. It’s easy to say he should’ve won something but England have never had the best squad at any of the tournaments he’s managed.

The overrating of the England squad is a bit similar to the premier league. All the time we get told how much better the premier league is than the rest and other comps are farmers leagues. Then you look at the actual results in European competitions and the English teams have underperformed for a long time now.

I've long held the belief that's because the other leagues aren't as competitive. Real/Barca/PSG/Bayern barely have to get out of second gear in the vast majority of their domestic fixtures. There are exceptions of course but as a general rule, I don't think they're playing anywhere near the quality of the Premier Leagues top 6-7 clubs. Look at that Liverpool team that scored 97 odd points and came second...

Add in the winter break they get etc.

I think that's different in an international setting - especially this tournament.

 

[Zidane98]

Southgate to United please.

You should bet on it happening after ETH gets the boot in October.

 

[99 Problems]

I've long held the belief that's because the other leagues aren't as competitive. Real/Barca/PSG/Bayern barely have to get out of second gear in the vast majority of their domestic fixtures. There are exceptions of course but as a general rule, I don't think they're playing anywhere near the quality of the Premier Leagues top 6-7 clubs. Look at that Liverpool team that scored 97 odd points and came second...

Add in the winter break they get etc.

I think that's different in an international setting - especially this tournament.

That’s definitely the narrative premier league teams push to explain the poor results but I’m not sure I buy it. Bayern finished third in the league and 18 points off the winners but still deservedly beat an Arsenal team that blew most teams off the park in the league this year. And the other leagues tend to do well in the Europa league when you’d expect the high quality 5-7 premier league clubs to take care of them easily.

The style of play in the premier league I think might be a better excuse as it is more fast paced and physical. But if that is the reason it means that England start every tournament on the back foot given 95% of the squad would play in the premier league and be exhausted from the tougher competition.

 

[apollo_creed]

No argument the football was poor to watch, and I think he’d get found out if he went to a club. It’s easy to say he should’ve won something but England have never had the best squad at any of the tournaments he’s managed.

The overrating of the England squad is a bit similar to the premier league. All the time we get told how much better the premier league is than the rest and other comps are farmers leagues. Then you look at the actual results in European competitions and the English teams have underperformed for a long time now.

But squad quality in comparison to the countries they have been drawn against is relevant.

 

[Jatz]

That’s definitely the narrative premier league teams push to explain the poor results but I’m not sure I buy it. Bayern finished third in the league and 18 points off the winners but still deservedly beat an Arsenal team that blew most teams off the park in the league this year. And the other leagues tend to do well in the Europa league when you’d expect the high quality 5-7 premier league clubs to take care of them easily.

The style of play in the premier league I think might be a better excuse as it is more fast paced and physical. But if that is the reason it means that England start every tournament on the back foot given 95% of the squad would play in the premier league and be exhausted from the tougher competition.

There are exceptions to every rule but even this season, it was pretty clear Bayern were out of the title race earlier on than Arsenal - with only Europe left to play for, it makes sense that Bayern had a larger importance on that game than Arsenal.

As for your second point, possibly. I don't think they're overly exhausted if they're making finals though. That to me says they've got the cattle, they're primed to win. They just don't have that killer instinct the big nations have. They have the overwhelming dark shadow that comes with the public bemoaning the lack of success over the years.

 

[99 Problems]

But squad quality in comparison to the countries they have been drawn against is relevant.

That’s true, but Southgate never got knocked out by any of those weaker squads. There were some ugly games and luck on the way but they got the result every time against the weaker teams on paper

 

[99 Problems]

There are exceptions to every rule but even this season, it was pretty clear Bayern were out of the title race earlier on than Arsenal - with only Europe left to play for, it makes sense that Bayern had a larger importance on that game than Arsenal.

As for your second point, possibly. I don't think they're overly exhausted if they're making finals though. That to me says they've got the cattle, they're primed to win. They just don't have that killer instinct the big nations have. They have the overwhelming dark shadow that comes with the public bemoaning the lack of success over the years.

So if it’s nothing to do with being physically tired I’m not sure what the level of the premier league has to do with explaining the poor record in Europe? They can’t mentally focus in the champions league because they’re thinking about the next league game?

The last point is true. Every tournament puts more pressure on the next one and the closer they get to winning the worse it probably gets. The only way that ever changes is if they win something.

 

[apollo_creed]

That’s true, but Southgate never got knocked out by any of those weaker squads. There were some ugly games and luck on the way but they got the result every time against the weaker teams on paper

And they generally played better when they went behind, or when they needed to score.
I agree that purely based on results he did well but they also had ridiculous luck when it comes to draws - definitely in the last two major tournaments. Absolutely plays a part in the results side of things when you're constantly drawn against inferior sides.

 

[Jatz]

So if it’s nothing to do with being physically tired I’m not sure what the level of the premier league has to do with explaining the poor record in Europe? They can’t mentally focus in the champions league because they’re thinking about the next league game?

The last point is true. Every tournament puts more pressure on the next one and the closer they get to winning the worse it probably gets. The only way that ever changes is if they win something.

Didn't say it was nothing to do with being physically tired, just that it clearly isn't a large contributing factor. I think it's one of several.

And yes agreed. It wouldn't surprise me at all that if/when England next win, they won't find winning again anywhere near as difficult. It's a giant metaphorical noose hanging around their necks - whether they care to admit it or not.

 

[Cruyff14]

At the end of the day, I am not sure any ambitious club - let alone top club - would want to pursue Southgate as their manager.

 

[SM]

At the end of the day, I am not sure any ambitious club - let alone top club - would want to pursue Southgate as their manager.

Because some managers are better in the international environment.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Fraudgate likely coaching US National team next

 

[Cruyff14]

Because some managers are better in the international environment.

So looks like we agree then.

 

[SM]

So looks like we agree then.

I didn't know we were disagreeing.

Was anyone saying he'd do well in club football?

 

[DBAH0]

Peak Spurs if this happens.

 

[Jatz]

Now that would be an interesting selection.

 

[Sozabarus]

I reckon they’ll try and get Eddie Howe out of Newcastle, and if that doesn’t work they’ll settle for either Potter or Carsley.

 

[RossFC]

 

[Hamingja]

Now that would be an interesting selection.

They would be entertaining to watch at least

 

[Zidane98]

No wonder he isn't arsed about a new job right now.

 

[SM]

No wonder he isn't arsed about a new job right now.

This isn't new info.

 

[Zidane98]

 

[Frank Bunn]

No wonder he isn't arsed about a new job right now.

Imagine earning nearly $400k per week. What would you do with that sort of money?

 

[chef]

Imagine earning nearly $400k per week. What would you do with that sort of money?

Travel the world playing golf.

 

[Zidane98]

Imagine earning nearly $400k per week. What would you do with that sort of money?

Highest tax rate is 51% over there isn't it? Probably clearing around $210k / week which will make things tough.