Mystery The Shroud of Turin

[Kurve]

The Shroud of Turin is purported to be the burial cloth of Jesus Christ. The cloth shows the image of a naked man who's been crucified with details that match traditional depictions of Christ.

Fibres and pollens tested over the years confirm it originated from the Jerusalem area, bloodstains from the shroud tested as AB and DNA tests confirmed several people had touched it over the years.

An Italian study in 2022 used X-ray scattering to analyze the shroud's linen, and found results that support the idea it is a 2,000-year-old relic.

From the image, AI produced this.



Are you convinced yet?

 

[Anzacpaul]

AI Jesus is a white man of course......

Also

Radiocarbon dating has established that the shroud is medieval, and not from the time of Jesus.[7]

Independent radiocarbon dating tests were carried out in 1988 at the University of Oxford, the University of Arizona, and the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, following years of discussion to obtain permission from the Holy See. The tests were done on portions of a swatch taken from a corner of the shroud, and concluded with 95% confidence that the material dated to 1260–1390 AD

 

[Kurve]

AI Jesus is a white man of course......

Also

Those findings appear to be disputed with current studies placing the shroud at 2000 years old.

The generated image posted is in sepia, not necessarily created as 'white man' if many from the ME could easily pass as white. There's first hand physical witness descriptions of Jesus with blue/grey eyes, chestnut coloured hair and a flushed complexion.

Others accounts have his physical description as a hunch backed cripple, probably propaganda.

Some today claim he must have been very dark, as Nazarenes were if I haven't found a description yet of what Nazarenes actually looked like.


Who cares what color his skin was but this too is nice.

 

[The Talent Scout]

The Shroud of Turin is purported to be the burial cloth of Jesus Christ. The cloth shows the image of a naked man who's been crucified with details that match traditional depictions of Christ.

Fibres and pollens tested over the years confirm it originated from the Jerusalem area, bloodstains from the shroud tested as AB and DNA tests confirmed several people had touched it over the years.

An Italian study in 2022 used X-ray scattering to analyze the shroud's linen, and found results that support the idea it is a 2,000-year-old relic.

From the image, AI produced this.



Are you convinced yet?

Very interesting "Oddball", the shroud of Turin has always been a fascinating subject, as has objects in that era, as of 2025, "we have no known technology" that can replicate the exact image and radiation and blood on the Shroud, or even back in the day when people of that era had no such technology, makes you wonder doesn't it whether your a believer or not if by his spirit rising was in fact etched into the cloth.

 

[Sqotty from office works]

Very interesting "Oddball", the shroud of Turin has always been a fascinating subject, as has objects in that era, as of 2025, "we have no known technology" that can replicate the exact image and radiation and blood on the Shroud, or even back in the day when people of that era had no such technology, makes you wonder doesn't it whether your a believer or not if by his spirit rising was in fact etched into the cloth.

If the shroud is real? What does it prove?
Stuff that's already assumed.

 

[The Talent Scout]

If the shroud is real? What does it prove?
Stuff that's already assumed.

Yes, pretty much, very fascinating if your into things like this, just the thought that say for a moment the shroud is from medieval times, who is the man? how the heck was it done or how did it happen when nothing like this in history has ever happened, that we know of.

A few of the things do point to it being from Jesus's time period and since we can't replicate the shroud today is mind boggling unless of course it was the image of Jesus, then we would have a real image of him which would be incredible, humans like the unknown/mysteries, we have this hunger to know things and find out the real truth about lots of things that the higher powers don't want you to know, for many reasons.

 

[faible]

I suspect it's just a ~ 800 year old forgery.

Radiocarbon dating, the McCrone analysis, in the 1300s it was declared a forgery and that they knew the artist who made it, and there's no real note of it's existence until the mid 1300s where it randomly appears in regional France in a church where the bloke who founded it makes no mention whatsoever of it's existence, to anyone, ever, yet it appears after his death displayed by his widow.

Every single thing we know pretty much says this one isn't real.

 

[The Talent Scout]

I suspect it's just a ~ 800 year old forgery.

Radiocarbon dating, the McCrone analysis, in the 1300s it was declared a forgery and that they knew the artist who made it, and there's no real note of it's existence until the mid 1300s where it randomly appears in regional France in a church where the bloke who founded it makes no mention whatsoever of it's existence, to anyone, ever, yet it appears after his death displayed by his widow.

Every single thing we know pretty much says this one isn't real.

Yes its interesting, the conversation on the Shroud ebbs & flows with new findings all the time but you see the problem I have is this; if you want something like the Shroud of Turin that may bring people together/unite to create doubt then this is exactly the way to do it, for whatever reason. Now when it appears in France, that's not a strange thing as some artefacts of that period were moved by the Knights Templars and that is well known, it also doesn't matter if some random person back then no matter who it was, declared it a forgery because todays technology says otherwise and the people who are suppose to know who made it, is looking very very shabby because to this day we still don't know.

David Rolfe, a film maker has said that when one of the tests carried out by the British museum and the Oxford university in 1988 had been flawed, he even issued a one million dollar challenge to the British museum IF they believe the Shroud is a medieval forgery knocked up by a conman of the time then repeat the exercise and create something very similar today, it should be very easy in "2025", here's a little hint, they can't, they don't have the faintest clue how it was done, you don't have to be a believer but c'mon, 700 or 2000 years later we can't replicate it, because the answer is there if you think about it logically, by the way that easy million dollars hasn't been claimed, not a big surprise.

You also have to realize back in 1988, carbon dating was in its infancy, the people involved wanted to get carbon dating on the map, those tests made it a house hold name. David has also spoken about how there are six -peer reviewed scientific articles that challenge the results of the carbon dating that was a rush job, we've come a very long way in the last 35 years!

Wide -angle X-ray scattering is the new advanced method applied to the ancient fabric has confirmed it is at least 2,000 years old placing it in the time frame of Jesus, is it Jesus? We may never know but we know a few things, its not a forgery, its of a man that was crucified, the blood, pollen and other things found on the shroud corelate to that time and area of where Jesus was crucified, maybe its just a coincidence, maybe not. Also of the pollen grains found within the Shroud, indicate that it had been present in the Jerusalem area, Dr Avinoam Danin, an Israeli botanist, of Hebrew University verified 28 different pollen species many from plants that only grow around Jerusalem, he also said the only way to make an image like this is with a burst of high energy, now that's interesting isn't it?
He passed away in 2015 aged 74 and was very well respected in his field.

 

[faible]

Yes its interesting, the conversation on the Shroud ebbs & flows with new findings all the time but you see the problem I have is this; if you want something like the Shroud of Turin that may bring people together/unite to create doubt then this is exactly the way to do it, for whatever reason. Now when it appears in France, that's not a strange thing as some artefacts of that period were moved by the Knights Templars and that is well known, it also doesn't matter if some random person back then no matter who it was, declared it a forgery because todays technology says otherwise and the people who are suppose to know who made it, is looking very very shabby because to this day we still don't know.

David Rolfe, a film maker has said that when one of the tests carried out by the British museum and the Oxford university in 1988 had been flawed, he even issued a one million dollar challenge to the British museum IF they believe the Shroud is a medieval forgery knocked up by a conman of the time then repeat the exercise and create something very similar today, it should be very easy in "2025", here's a little hint, they can't, they don't have the faintest clue how it was done, you don't have to be a believer but c'mon, 700 or 2000 years later we can't replicate it, because the answer is there if you think about it logically, by the way that easy million dollars hasn't been claimed, not a big surprise.

You also have to realize back in 1988, carbon dating was in its infancy, the people involved wanted to get carbon dating on the map, those tests made it a house hold name. David has also spoken about how there are six -peer reviewed scientific articles that challenge the results of the carbon dating that was a rush job, we've come a very long way in the last 35 years!

Wide -angle X-ray scattering is the new advanced method applied to the ancient fabric has confirmed it is at least 2,000 years old placing it in the time frame of Jesus, is it Jesus? We may never know but we know a few things, its not a forgery, its of a man that was crucified, the blood, pollen and other things found on the shroud corelate to that time and area of where Jesus was crucified, maybe its just a coincidence, maybe not. Also of the pollen grains found within the Shroud, indicate that it had been present in the Jerusalem area, Dr Avinoam Danin, an Israeli botanist, of Hebrew University verified 28 different pollen species many from plants that only grow around Jerusalem, he also said the only way to make an image like this is with a burst of high energy, now that's interesting isn't it?
He passed away in 2015 aged 74 and was very well respected in his field.

Not being able to reproduce something today doesn't therefore validate it as authentic; we don't know exactly how they built the pyramids, that doesn't mean aliens did it. That's an absurd argument to try to run.

I suspect those who are already religious will lean to the Shroud being authentic, and those who aren't, won't.

FWIW this appears to be the study Kurve refers to, took a bit of hunting to find it:

Long-Term Temperature Effects on the Natural Linen Aging of the Turin Shroud

In 2021, Wide-angle X-ray Scattering (WAXS) was applied to a sample of the Turin Shroud as a new method for dating ancient linen threads by inspecting their structural degradation. The major result of the research was to estimate the natural aging of the linen of the Shroud, through which it was...

www.mdpi.com

 

[Kurve]

Not being able to reproduce something today doesn't therefore validate it as authentic; we don't know exactly how they built the pyramids, that doesn't mean aliens did it. That's an absurd argument to try to run.

I suspect those who are already religious will lean to the Shroud being authentic, and those who aren't, won't.

FWIW this appears to be the study Kurve refers to, took a bit of hunting to find it:

Long-Term Temperature Effects on the Natural Linen Aging of the Turin Shroud

In 2021, Wide-angle X-ray Scattering (WAXS) was applied to a sample of the Turin Shroud as a new method for dating ancient linen threads by inspecting their structural degradation. The major result of the research was to estimate the natural aging of the linen of the Shroud, through which it was...

www.mdpi.com

Well, it might not be Jesus but someone was crucified and it's only with modern technology that we can actually see it.

I'm not religious.

 

[faible]

Well, it might not be Jesus but someone was crucified and it's only with modern technology that we can actually see it.

I'm not religious.

From what I've read, I'm skeptical that it's any of the above. Plenty of doubt, even just a read through the Wikipedia entry throws up a heap of stuff that's NQR about it, regardless of how old the cloth itself it.

The weave, the blood stains, the anatomy come up as NQR for what it's purported to be. Not conclusively so, but also not quite right.

Even the pollen isn't conclusive, it basically just tells us a lot of different people from different places have come in to contact with the fabric in the ~ 700 years we've known of its existence.

Uncovering the sources of DNA found on the Turin Shroud - PMC

The Turin Shroud is traditionally considered to be the burial cloth in which the body of Jesus Christ was wrapped after his death approximately 2000 years ago. Here, we report the main findings from the analysis of genomic DNA extracted from dust ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The pollen study itself finds samples from the Americas and Eastern Asia for example, so could only be from external visitors after the Shroud appears in France. Which means there's no way to be sure which samples come from before France or after. You'd expect most visitors to come from areas nearby, and from further away that are Catholic, which would roughly approximate the estimate journey of an authentic artefact.

The study notes right at the end regarding Indian samples being found on the cloth, which is interesting albeit most likely just from visitors post-France:

the detection of mtDNA haplogroups that are typically from India is somehow unexpected. One obvious possibility is that during the course of centuries, individuals of Indian ancestry came into contact with TS. Taking into account the rate of DNA degradation and PCR-biases toward undamaged DNA, the recent contamination scenario is extremely likely. However, one alternative and intriguing possibility is that the linen cloth was weaved in India, as supported perhaps by the original name of TS - Sindon - which appears to derive from Sindia or Sindien, a fabric coming from India.

It's interesting because we don't really know, and it's fun to believe it's real, but for me I find the evidence supporting 'not real' more compelling.

 

[The Talent Scout]

Not being able to reproduce something today doesn't therefore validate it as authentic; we don't know exactly how they built the pyramids, that doesn't mean aliens did it. That's an absurd argument to try to run.

I suspect those who are already religious will lean to the Shroud being authentic, and those who aren't, won't.

FWIW this appears to be the study Kurve refers to, took a bit of hunting to find it:

Long-Term Temperature Effects on the Natural Linen Aging of the Turin Shroud

In 2021, Wide-angle X-ray Scattering (WAXS) was applied to a sample of the Turin Shroud as a new method for dating ancient linen threads by inspecting their structural degradation. The major result of the research was to estimate the natural aging of the linen of the Shroud, through which it was...

www.mdpi.com

Nice follow up faible, I understand all of that, but {you knew there was a but coming didn't you?} the thing is, we can if someone wanted to, build a pyramid, but 2000 years later not only do we not know how the image got on the Shroud but we can not replicate it, now that's not to say it is Jesus but it kinda gets you thinking about it if you think about those certain questions that are so hard to answer that some people dance around because it doesn't fit their narrative. Some people in the field of looking at the Shroud have said the only way they know that an image like that can be transformed onto the shroud is by an incredible amount of high energy of some sought but again that is just their opinion.

In my opinion, the most fascinating thing about the Shroud is what you can't see, or more to the point what you can, let me explain, if you look at the shroud of Turin, one of the clearest or the best picture of its present image is on the The shroud of Turin Website, looking straight away it took me a few moments to actually see the faint image of a man, its only when you look at the negative that things become a little more clearer, if your going to try and hoax people/ the world why wouldn't you make it a lot clearer, the fact that really only by examining the negative that you get a closer detail, even if its still a little fuzzy, is where the true beauty of the mystery lies.

The part where you said those who are religious will lean to it being authentic and those that aren't, won't is quite true but you see there are lots of people that aren't religious but believe that it is of a man that was crucified and the cloth was placed over him and the other marks on his body {like a cap of thorns on his head} according to the imprint on the Shroud, maybe its all a coincidence, its always good to keep an open mind.

 

[Sqotty from office works]

Yes its interesting, the conversation on the Shroud ebbs & flows with new findings all the time but you see the problem I have is this; if you want something like the Shroud of Turin that may bring people together/unite to create doubt then this is exactly the way to do it, for whatever reason. Now when it appears in France, that's not a strange thing as some artefacts of that period were moved by the Knights Templars and that is well known, it also doesn't matter if some random person back then no matter who it was, declared it a forgery because todays technology says otherwise and the people who are suppose to know who made it, is looking very very shabby because to this day we still don't know.

David Rolfe, a film maker has said that when one of the tests carried out by the British museum and the Oxford university in 1988 had been flawed, he even issued a one million dollar challenge to the British museum IF they believe the Shroud is a medieval forgery knocked up by a conman of the time then repeat the exercise and create something very similar today, it should be very easy in "2025", here's a little hint, they can't, they don't have the faintest clue how it was done, you don't have to be a believer but c'mon, 700 or 2000 years later we can't replicate it, because the answer is there if you think about it logically, by the way that easy million dollars hasn't been claimed, not a big surprise.

You also have to realize back in 1988, carbon dating was in its infancy, the people involved wanted to get carbon dating on the map, those tests made it a house hold name. David has also spoken about how there are six -peer reviewed scientific articles that challenge the results of the carbon dating that was a rush job, we've come a very long way in the last 35 years!

Wide -angle X-ray scattering is the new advanced method applied to the ancient fabric has confirmed it is at least 2,000 years old placing it in the time frame of Jesus, is it Jesus? We may never know but we know a few things, its not a forgery, its of a man that was crucified, the blood, pollen and other things found on the shroud corelate to that time and area of where Jesus was crucified, maybe its just a coincidence, maybe not. Also of the pollen grains found within the Shroud, indicate that it had been present in the Jerusalem area, Dr Avinoam Danin, an Israeli botanist, of Hebrew University verified 28 different pollen species many from plants that only grow around Jerusalem, he also said the only way to make an image like this is with a burst of high energy, now that's interesting isn't it?
He passed away in 2015 aged 74 and was very well respected in his field.

The shroud after any years of bartering finally allowed to have some testing done.
It was not to be in any way touched or tested apart from a tiny grab from the edge of the linen.
Most experts spent many years trying to convince shroud management to allow testing of the shadows and inner part of clothe which was disallowed vehemently.

Experts never said they couldn't reproduce the shroud, what they said was WITHOUT conclusive testing and examination of the WHOLE shroud they wouldn't have any chance of reproducing the year 1,200 religious ornamental clothe.