The Stadium!

[Jazny]

Jeremy rockliff

 

[Aussie in exile]

Jeremy rockliff

Good luck with that one.

 

[cfc to aufc]

Good luck with that one.

He signed the contract but he'll be able to seek protection from his employer

 

[Perry Pie]

Just imagine Marvel Stadium without the third tier:

View attachment 1938707

I love the render, Also the idea of a simple raised roof - it could be made to look very special (which is what anything built at Mac point will need to be.
Changed stadium name for a laugh too.

One thing that will be critical is ventilation, esp in summer. It will get very hot in there if its not really well vented.

Design is the next big thing. There is a lot of height to play with so the stadium lends itself to a creative approach. High stands on the wings, lower stands at the ends. I dont like how Dunedin executed the stage areas, but the basic idea of a stage set up with temp stand over has merit.

A knockout design will bring Labour on board.
.

Anyway,

 

[Mr Tassie]

Just one of the Jaqgui Lambie party candidates still in contention to win a seat is a stadium supporter, but is one that isn't looking as likely to win.

 

[GudOnya]

The swing against Liberals doesn't necessarily indicate any negative feelings about the stadium, and I personally see it as the opposite. They have been in power for a decade now, which is a very long time in Tasmanian politics, and I would suggest that the AFL team is probably the only reason that they won this election too rather than Labor winning and the traditional cycle continuing.

Additionally the AFL could claim costs and damages from the government if the deal falls apart but there is an old piece of legislation (can't remember the name of it off the top of my head at the moment) that basically states that if the government want to renege on a deal then they have a way to do it which means they don't have to pay a cent to the other party.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Lambie and Greens call for proposed Hobart stadium to be scrapped

The decision comes after both parties failed to form majority government…

pulsetasmania.com.au

Cop this load of the bullshit from Woodruff - "People were devastated that a government would choose to spend over a billion dollars on a stadium in Hobart that we don’t need,” Woodruff told ABC Radio.
Laughable.

The cost of the stadium, say realistically 20% over budget (850 million.) divided by less than 600,000 population.
Plus playing maybe only 11-12 games a year, Tassie shouldn't have to shoulder so much of the burden.

 

[Turbochook]

AFL sues a state government? I know they have deep pockets but really? What a terrible look if the AFL went after a state for putting the broader population first. Every state government and even federal would be up in arms and treat the AFL's future contracts with great caution.

I imagine all we have to do pass a law like W.A. did with Clive Palmer to prevent them from suing the state anyways.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10...-against-state-of-western-australia/100534312

 

[Teen Wolf]

The cost of the stadium, say realistically 20% over budget (850 million.) divided by less than 600,000 population.
Plus playing maybe only 11-12 games a year, the Tassie shouldn't have to shoulder so much of the burden.

...The cost of the stadium to the Tasmanian taxpayers is $375m.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

...The cost of the stadium to the Tasmanian taxpayers is $375m.

That's a far more realistic figure, but it's not locked in, they are expected to pay for any increases over a 4 year period.
Take note of how many major Australian building companies have collapsed in recent years. Trying to price projects on a fixed budget when materials are sky-rocketing and sufficient skilled labour unobtainable.

I'm totally invested in the Devils and their stadium, but can also fully understand concerns regarding the priorities of Tassie's other social issues.

 

[Turbochook]

That's a far more realistic figure, but it's not locked in, they are expected to pay for any increases over a 4 year period.
Take note of how many major Australian building companies have collapsed in recent years. Trying to price projects on a fixed budget when materials are sky-rocketing and sufficient skilled labour unobtainable.

I'm totally invested in the Devils and their stadium, but can also fully understand concerns regarding the priorities of Tassie's other social issues.

Yes I think those more punitive aspects of the contract will be waved by the AFL, if not explicitly then in the course of events. The fines for late completion of the construction for example will never be levied and if there are blowouts the AFL will find a way to help massage them and not leave it all up to the state. The ground swell of support means this thing has gotten too big for the AFL to accept failure, heartland supporters will be up in arms if the AFL keeps bailing out GWS/GCS but allows an AFL state to wither.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Yes I think those more punitive aspects of the contract will be waved by the AFL, if not explicitly then in the course of events. The fines for late completion of the construction for example will never be levied and if there are blowouts the AFL will find a way to help massage them and not leave it all up to the state. The ground swell of support means this thing has gotten too big for the AFL to accept failure, heartland supporters will be up in arms if the AFL keeps bailing out GWS/GCS but allows an AFL state to wither.

Totally agree, it's too far down the track to reverse out, and it would a poor look.
The very least the AFL and the Feds should do is accept more or all of the cost over runs.
You would think the Lambie mob could be talked into this, with some kind of appeasement of their own key issues.

 

[Teen Wolf]

That's a far more realistic figure, but it's not locked in, they are expected to pay for any increases over a 4 year period.
Take note of how many major Australian building companies have collapsed in recent years. Trying to price projects on a fixed budget when materials are sky-rocketing and sufficient skilled labour unobtainable.

I'm totally invested in the Devils and their stadium, but can also fully understand concerns regarding the priorities of Tassie's other social issues.

Yes things tend to increase in cost over time, including land. Therefore it's just as plausible to say the $85m expected to be generated via the private sector will increase and balance out any increase in stadium costs.

If the AFL said they'd cover up to $100m in blowout costs, there would still be politicians peddling the idea that "Tasmania can't afford a billion dollar stadium" and glossing over the actual breakdown of where the money is coming from (a trick you fell for in post no. 957 btw).

So let us not pretend close and sincere attention to funding details is fuelling opposition to the stadium.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Yes things tend to increase in cost over time, including land. Therefore it's just as plausible to say the $85m expected to be generated via the private sector will increase and balance out any increase in stadium costs.

If the AFL said they'd cover up to $100m in blowout costs, there would still be politicians peddling the idea that "Tasmania can't afford a billion dollar stadium" and glossing over the actual breakdown of where the money is coming from (a trick you fell for in post no. 957 btw).

So let us not pretend close and sincere attention to funding details is fuelling opposition to the stadium.

What is the main reason fuelling opposition to the stadium?
I would have thought it's entirely about the distribution of tax payers funding, no matter what the final amount is.

Still think the AFL will cave in and the independents will get their housing, health and education funds.

Might result in a better arrangement for all stakeholders than the original one.

 

[GudOnya]

What is the main reason fuelling opposition to the stadium?
I would have thought it's entirely about the distribution of tax payers funding, no matter what the final amount is.

Still think the AFL will cave in and the independents will get their housing, health and education funds.

Might result in a better arrangement for all stakeholders than the original one.

A very vocal portion of the Tasmanian population don't like change.

 

[cfc to aufc]

Yes things tend to increase in cost over time, including land. Therefore it's just as plausible to say the $85m expected to be generated via the private sector will increase and balance out any increase in stadium costs.

If the AFL said they'd cover up to $100m in blowout costs, there would still be politicians peddling the idea that "Tasmania can't afford a billion dollar stadium" and glossing over the actual breakdown of where the money is coming from (a trick you fell for in post no. 957 btw).

So let us not pretend close and sincere attention to funding details is fuelling opposition to the stadium.

You are not suggesting an Amendment to the Terms & Conditions of a contract which was not negotiable.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Some vocal politicians mistakenly thought that voicing opposition will help them win an election. It didn't help, which would suggest Tasmanians for the most part are not opposed to the new stadium.

You are not suggesting an Amendment to the Terms & Conditions of a contract which was not negotiable.

Presumably you meant to respond to the person who is actually saying the AFL will change a contract that they have no need to change.

Indeed, the time to negotiate is before you sign the papers. Now it's building time.

 

[cfc to aufc]

Some vocal politicians mistakenly thought that voicing opposition will help them win an election. It didn't help, which would suggest Tasmanians for the most part are not opposed to the new stadium.


Presumably you meant to respond to the person who is actually saying the AFL will change a contract that they have no need to change.

Indeed, the time to negotiate is before you sign the papers. Now it's building time.

Yes apologies

 

[Jazny]

What you fail to realize is that while Hobart is the biggest city, the majority of the population live in the north. Homelessness, educational outcomes and health services mean far more to them than Hobart getting a Gucci Bag stadium. I am pro stadium but understand why eating and seeing a doctor is more important to a great many of us.

And do you really believe that if the stadium wasn't going to be built, that would make even the tiniest shred of a difference to any of those issues you raised? Also you want to retain young people in the state... then give us some things to do.

 

[Mr Tassie]

Nah that's horse s**t. Tasmania has some of the worst education, health and housing issues in Australia. The population is shrinking, again, and is amongst the oldest in the country; meaning very complicated health issues and a shrinking tax base (along with a shrinking GST carve out).

When you think of Tasmania's issues think of the NT on steroids. Most young people leave for the mainland for much better opportunities, Hobart rentals are more expensive than Sydney and it's a dead end for anyone wishing to advance their careers compared to the mainland or overseas.

What you fail to realize is that while Hobart is the biggest city, the majority of the population live in the north. Homelessness, educational outcomes and health services mean far more to them than Hobart getting a Gucci Bag stadium. I am pro stadium but understand why eating and seeing a doctor is more important to a great many of us.

Hobart and the South East have just over half the states population.

 

[Turbochook]

And do you really believe that if the stadium wasn't going to be built, that would make even the tiniest shred of a difference to any of those issues you raised? Also you want to retain young people in the state... then give us some things to do.

Did you even read my post? I said I'm pro stadium. Please stop being so oppositional defiant if you can. All I said is I understand those who feel it's a waste of money when families are living in tents, unable to see a doctor or have to choose between food and rent. I can tell you don't fit into any of those categories.

 

[Turbochook]

Hobart and the South East have just over half the states population.

Yep got me there by the hair on a bee's dick, pyrrhic victory to you.

 

[Turbochook]

I do love how people who don't live in Tasmania are telling us how absurd our broader objections are. I want a team, I want a stadium 2hrs away from where I live but I'm a realist. Many don't and that's a fact.

 

[_Cerberus_]

The way those opposed to the stadium are acting, and talking. Is like the TAS tax payer will be paying for the entire cost of the stadium.

They are covering pretty much half of it. You hear them bring up the total cost all the time, and not what TAS IS paying. I suppose the bigger number seems scarier.

 

[Jazny]

Did you even read my post? I said I'm pro stadium. Please stop being so oppositional defiant if you can. All I said is I understand those who feel it's a waste of money when families are living in tents, unable to see a doctor or have to choose between food and rent. I can tell you don't fit into any of those categories.

That's not what oppositional defiant means. Not sure why you are accusing me of it anyway, look at the tone of your post vs mine...

The prioritize health and housing line is a bad argument and purely political but I understand why that bad argument works on people who are struggling. It was designed to rile people up and it semi/kinda/sort of worked unfortunately.