The team of 2011 compared to 2010...

[TNTre]

Seeing as the National Draft is all over and done with, and given the rookies we've picked up, I'm curious as to see what people think in regards to which players will replace who in the lineup for this year.

Considering this was the team that ran out on to the park for our last game against Fremantle:

Guerra - Gilham - Murphy
Whitecross - Gibson - Stratton
Lewis - Mitchell - Young
Burgoyne - Franklin - Rioli
Osbourne - Roughead - Batemen
Renouf - Hodge - Sewell

I/C: Brown - Ellis - Peterson - Skipper.
EMERG: Ladson, Shoenmakers, Shiels

Keeping in mind Peterson didn't play and Ladson came in.

Now out of that team you can take Brown, Peterson and Skipper out straight away due to delistments and trades.

And now our new recruits, Hale, Cheney, Smith, Litherland, Hallahan, and Puopolo.

So where do these, and the following guys in Lisle, Breust, Shiels, Savage, Milne, Bailey and Lowden all fit in to the squad? Would love people's thoughts on who and why their in or out.

Personally my thoughts will be for Round 1 (barring inclusions from the rookie draft and PSD):

Guerra - Gilham - Puopolo
Birchall - Gibson - Stratton
Batemen - Mitchell - Young
Burgoyne - Franklin - Rioli
Breust - Roughead - Lisle
Hale - Hodge - Sewell

INT: Smith - Ellis - Renouf
SUB: Milne / Savage

INS: Hale, Breust, Lisle, Puopolo and Smith,
OUTS: Osbourne, Murphy, Ladson, Peterson, Skipper

Also from that team Birchall would be coming in, and Whitecross most likely out.

Hales inclusion is a no brainer, clearly to ruck for the majority and rest as a forward for times. Places Renoufs place into doubt though with the possibility of Lisle playing as a swingman/3rd tall.

Breust: Small forward, depending on form/preseason, role of Osborne, would decide whether or not he gets the gig. Osborne's form of last season wasn't spectacular without being completely disgraceful, but found himself fading out of games more times then featuring.

Lisle: Personally think he will be a huge swingman in the team. Can play forward and back, though definitely more of a forward, and can ruck for times as well. Could possibly be a big part of the team in 2011.

Puopolo: From the write ups and age, seems to be a relative certain starter, given he has line breaking pace, and can play on the smalls. Would give Murphy a fair bit to think about. Not sure if he would have more runs on the board then Cheney though.

Smith: Definitely think we got this guy to star from round 1. His pace on a wing would be an outstanding addition to the squad.


Excuse the length of the post, but probably the most in depth analysis I've tried to do. Love to know people's thoughts and why...

Mods, if this is the wrong place for this please merge

 

[Prem87]

Any room for Cam Bruce?

Smith would be a great Sub while he gets used to the tempo at AFL level.

 

[TNTre]

Any room for Cam Bruce?

Smith would be a great Sub while he gets used to the tempo at AFL level.

Interesting call on Smith. Image of someone like a Batemen or Ellis being told to bust their asses running for as long as possible, then sub them for a runner in Smith to keep up the tempo, or increase it...

Not sure Cameron Bruce would add that much to the side, not too sure who he'd boot out of the back six, and don't think he'd take out Burgoyne or Rioli on the HFF

 

[bigbuddyboy]

I think Smith is a great candidate for the substitute position. I'm of the opinion lots of clubs will 'initiate' their first year draftees as either starting as the sub, or almost certainly (barring injuries) finishing as the sub. I think for the hawks Smith/Milne/Hallahan are good sub options and are all likely to play next year.

I hope we see Shoe at CHB, Buddy FF, and rough playing true Jono Brown style CHF (crashing packs). If bailey plays and doesn't get injured, i'll be one happy hawker.

 

[Number 24 Jnr]

I know it's hard to fit everyone in, but I don't think - barring injury - that Murphy, Osbourne or Whitecross will miss out come round one. Murphy, I thought, was very good in the second half of 2010. He was also awarded Best Clubman, which shows the respect he has from the playing group and coaching staff. He also offers versatility, as he can play on smalls and talls. Ossie is a barometer to our form, and Whitecross is on the rise. If we're to go anyway next season, it's these guys who need to provide further improvement.

 

[Hoppo]

Where did Lewis go?

Did Smith take his spot?

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Would love to see NAB Cup game 1:

FB: Pups - Schoenmakers - Stratton
HB: WhiteX - Gibson - Birchall
Ce: Young - Hodge - Bateman
HF: Lewis - Buddy - Burgoyne
FF: Rioli - Roughead - Osborne

Ru: Bailey
RR: Sewell
Ro: Mitchell

I/C: Hale, Renouf, X, Smith, Savage, Lisle...

 

[Hawthorn4ever]

I think Smith is a great candidate for the substitute position. I'm of the opinion lots of clubs will 'initiate' their first year draftees as either starting as the sub, or almost certainly (barring injuries) finishing as the sub. I think for the hawks Smith/Milne/Hallahan are good sub options and are all likely to play next year.

I hope we see Shoe at CHB, Buddy FF, and rough playing true Jono Brown style CHF (crashing packs). If bailey plays and doesn't get injured, i'll be one happy hawker.

Bailey in the ruck, Smith (if he lives up to his hype and improves) allows Buddy to go back to FF where he belongs....

Have said this before... ROUGHY to be a true CHF roaming flanks, wings would be awesome... i hope he can improve his tank to allow Buddy the F50 arc to himself and Rioli...

Buddy at FF is nightmares for the opposition... creates goals for others...

 

[mark1234]

I think out team can be a lot better then last year adding the pace of Isaac Smith and potentially Bruce, along with the upgrade of Hale of Skipper improves us a lot.

Midfield

I think the midfield could be really dynamic, with hopefully Bateman and Young having seasons uninterrupted by injury, with Cyril’s body more used to long spells in the middle and Burgoyne getting used to playing with us- he really hit form over the last few games of the year.

You add in Hodge the new captain wanting to lead form the front and prove he is the man and a great captain, then the consistency from Mitchell, Sewell and Lewis.

Forward

There are still issues with the forward line, we looked at our best with Peterson and Hooper in the team putting forward pressure on and providing that spark. When we were at our best in 08 we had Mark Williams playing that third forward and now that clubs are putting everything into Buddy and Roughy we need to find other forward options.

Ladson and Osborne did not play that great last season, so they could be these options or perhaps as other have said Bruest may be able to do this, even though I think in the rookie draft we need to get some small forwards. But with a new forward coach in Leon Cameron I think he can get the best out of the forwards.

Backline

There are still issues here as well, Shoenmakers showed me nothing last year to indicate he can play good consistent football in the back half next year. He gets caught with the ball too often.

Gibson was outstanding in the last few games of last year as was Sratton.

So overall I think we will hopefully get the most improvement internally Ellis showed a lot in some games late last year, I think Birchall, Osborne, Ladson can all play better in 2011.

Also Hale and a hopefully fit and AFL ready Lowden and Bailey should provide much needed depth in the ruck, as we lost at least 3 games last year due to a tiring Renouf.

Im exited about the mids and Leon Cameron getting the best out of the forwards.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

I know it's hard to fit everyone in, but I don't think - barring injury - that Murphy, Osbourne or Whitecross will miss out come round one. Murphy, I thought, was very good in the second half of 2010. He was also awarded Best Clubman, which shows the respect he has from the playing group and coaching staff. He also offers versatility, as he can play on smalls and talls. Ossie is a barometer to our form, and Whitecross is on the rise. If we're to go anyway next season, it's these guys who need to provide further improvement.

Good post N24J.

It's easy to get carried away with the new imports. Wouldn't surprise me if we picked up a ready made player in the Rookie draft as well.

We only have three players from last year's round 22 team that aren't on the list: Peterson, Brown and Skipper

We've added Hale and probably Bruce.
We have also added ready-to-play players: Cheney, Smith and Pupulo
It's fair to expect that Schoenmakers, and Bailey will be pushing for selection in round 1.

I think with Hale, Bailey and Schoenmakers we'll find a mix of talls that addresses our ruck/KPD issues. That means we need to find some speed and a HFF from somewhere, and I think Smith, Bruce, Savage and Shiels will all be in the mix here. A few people around here consider Breust a possibility to make an impact too.

With the picks we had in the draft it was always going to be difficult to get a ready-made KPD. That player would be competing with Schoen for a spot, which means it could be a complete waste.

I'm happy with our drafting. We're seeing some future planning for our midfield, which is important. Our oldest guys are Bateman, Goo and Burgoyne, and we're loading up on guys that have similar attributes. Good stuff hawks.

 

[gianytee]

Round 1 2011

B: Puopulo Gilham Murphy
HB: Birchall Gibson Stratton

no room for Guerra, Murphy took the best opposing smalls at the end of last year and stoped most of them and Puopulo has pace something guerra doesnt have would like to see Ellis start playing in defense as i reakn he will strive there

M: Lewis Mitchell Young
R: Hale Hodge Sewell

F: Burgoyne Roughead Smith
F: Rioli Franklin Breust/Osbourne

I: Renouf Ellis Bateman/Savage/Shiels
R: Milne

 

[mollyfud]

This might be a tough call but any post about possible Hawk sides going forward (well until the team starts playing again) that leave out Tom Murphy I am going to automatically ignore as coming from a place that is totally biased! Surely Murphy's performances last year mean that he has done enough to cement his spot in the round 1 side and the haters need to find a new whipping boy.
Rant over (well until next time)!

 

[streetspirit]

Our oldest guys are Bateman, Goo and Burgoyne

Bruce will genuinely be the HFC grandpa if we recruit him, he'd have to have any of those listed above covered by 2 years at least.

 

[Hawker_Ant]

I know it's hard to fit everyone in, but I don't think - barring injury - that Murphy, Osbourne or Whitecross will miss out come round one. Murphy, I thought, was very good in the second half of 2010. He was also awarded Best Clubman, which shows the respect he has from the playing group and coaching staff. He also offers versatility, as he can play on smalls and talls. Ossie is a barometer to our form, and Whitecross is on the rise. If we're to go anyway next season, it's these guys who need to provide further improvement.

Concur.

Guerra - Gilham - Murphy
Birchall - Gibson - Stratton
Batemen - Mitchell - Young
Burgoyne - Franklin - Rioli
Osborne - Roughead - Lewis
Hale - Hodge - Sewell

INT: Ellis - WhiteX - Bailey
SUB: Bruce

I doubt Milne is ready, or that Smith is a stand-up starter (he's only played a handful of VFL games). Can't find room for Bruest unless Osborne has a fit, nor for Ladson. Bruce may squeeze in ahead of Murphy (not sure I should be counting him yet)? If so I'd have Puopolo as the sub.

 

[Knightmare]

I'm no Hawthorn fan but since I'm the Hawthorn phantom draft guy I'm still going to try and keep in touch with this list.

This is my attempt at the 2011 best 22 (not as of round 1, but probably the team you see for most of the season)

F: Taylor Duryea Jarryd Roughead Cyril Rioli
HF: Cameron Bruce Lance Franklin Shaun Burgoyne
CEN: Isaac Smith Sam Mitchell Jordan Lewis
HB: Brendan Whitecross Ryan Shoenmakers Grant Birchall
B: Ben Stratton Josh Gibson Thomas Murphy
FOLL: Brent Renouf Brad Sewell Luke Hodge
BENCH: David Hale Xavier Ellis Chance Bateman
4th man: Liam Shiels

Isaac Smith probably won't play from round 1, but once finals come around I think he might win a couple of games for you. Will inject serious speed and instant offence to this team that it has needed.

Cameron Bruce I'll assume happens, natural fit onto a forward flank.

Duryea I don't know what Hawks fans think but I think he might be the Rhan Hooper replacement next season in a forward pocket and from my understanding isn't too far off.

Hale is new, you'd think he'd play primarily forward then play the minutes in the ruck when Renouf needs a rest.

Shiels looked great in 09 but didn't play and aweful lot even after his terrific preseason. Was he injured at stages during 2010? From what i've seen of him anyway I think he should become a regular in 2011 and might even push past someone to make it into the best 21.




I think Hawthorn might go with a similar model to that of Collingwood in 2010 where a few younger players (Wellingham, Macaffer amongst others played before some vets: Lockyer, O'Bree and co) which is why I see a number of: Osborne, Guerra, Young, Gilham, Ladson getting surpassed.


Side note: Paul Puopolo I think will be pretty close and if a spot opens up down back for him I wouldn't be surprised to see him come in over the likes of Ladson. Might also get a mature age rookie in the rookie draft who I think might also be pushing pretty hard for a position in this team. If none of the standout VFL or WAFL guys (Sewell, Hibbard, Curnow, N.Phillips) are available I'd look at ex Collingwood midfielder Jaxson Barham. Injects serious speed, energy, tackling and can run all day. Would be a nice compliment to Isaac Smith on a wing. I think he would come pretty close to getting a couple of games. Considered slightly limited in some respects, but I think he could be a nice St Kilda style role player. Even if as just a possible 22nd man option I think he could be a good one.

 

[Hawker_Ant]

Knightmare forgot Clinton Young. Which pushes Lewis from the wing to half-forward. And Osborne should stay in the forward pocket, he's no dud. I don't think Gilham will be so easily dismissed from the side either.

The pleasing thing is it's starting to look like there is real competition for spots in the side. Especially if players like Shiels, Schoenmakers, Lisle, Bruest, Savage, Suckling, Duryea and Smith can lift to the next level. Who knows, maybe even Morton.

And yes, Shiels had some minor injuries early in the year. And I think he got suspended for giving Ling-Ling a whack.

 

[TNTre]

Knightmare forgot Clinton Young. Which pushes Lewis from the wing to half-forward. And Osborne should stay in the forward pocket, he's no dud. I don't think Gilham will be so easily dismissed from the side either.

The pleasing thing is it's starting to look like there is real competition for spots in the side. Especially if players like Shiels, Schoenmakers, Lisle, Bruest, Savage, Suckling, Duryea and Smith can lift to the next level. Who knows, maybe even Morton.

And yes, Shiels had some minor injuries early in the year. And I think he got suspended for giving Ling-Ling a whack.

Absolutely.

Can't believe I forgot Lewis out of my original 22

Agree with N24jr though, trying to come through with a team list for next year, make's it too easy to correct the supposed weak links we had. I'm personally not a Murphy basher, but believe we recruited ready to go players for reason. Then again, JKT was recruited ready to go and only played 3 games, though I would have thought this was more to Young being available.

Looking forward to a ripping preseason!

 

[Watsclarkosmob]

This might be a tough call but any post about possible Hawk sides going forward (well until the team starts playing again) that leave out Tom Murphy I am going to automatically ignore as coming from a place that is totally biased! Surely Murphy's performances last year mean that he has done enough to cement his spot in the round 1 side and the haters need to find a new whipping boy.
Rant over (well until next time)!

Second that...

 

[burner1]

It appears again over the course of a trade/draft period we have probably made signficant changes to our 22. Last year it was adding gibson and burgoyne, hooper and very quickly, stratton.

The things I am really excited about is finally we may have some decent competition for spots in both the midfield and backline: Ellis, lewis, young, bateman and sewell should be feeling the heat from shiels, savage, WX, hallahan, smith while down back shoe should be looking to force out gilham and guerra, murphy, ladson will need to be on their toes from puopolo, WX, suckling etc.

B: Puopolo Stratton Gibson
HB: Hodge Shoe Birchall
C: Smith Burgoyne Buddy
HF: Rioli Roughy Milne
F: Breust Hale WX
R: Renouf/Bailey Mitch Sewell
Int: Bateman Savage Ellis E: Young

 

[Rioli2Gunstall]

Anyone that doesn't have Young in the best 22 on the wing needs to watch Hawthorn play occasionally. We look at our most dangerous with Young sprinting full pelt through the middle and booming it down to Buddy. Watch rnd 22 vs Collingwood for examples.

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

It appears again over the course of a trade/draft period we have probably made signficant changes to our 22. Last year it was adding gibson and burgoyne, hooper and very quickly, stratton.

The things I am really excited about is finally we may have some decent competition for spots in both the midfield and backline: Ellis, lewis, young, bateman and sewell should be feeling the heat from shiels, savage, WX, hallahan, smith while down back shoe should be looking to force out gilham and guerra, murphy, ladson will need to be on their toes from puopolo, WX, suckling etc.

B: Puopolo Stratton Gibson
HB: Hodge Shoe Birchall
C: Smith Burgoyne Buddy
HF: Rioli Roughy Milne
F: Breust Hale WX
R: Renouf/Bailey Mitch Sewell
Int: Bateman Savage Ellis E: Young

Not bad but no room for Lewis?

Mine with a couple of changes:

B: Puopolo Stratton Gibson
HB: Hodge Shoe Birchall
C: Smith Burgoyne Young
HF: Rioli Roughy Lewis
F: Breust Buddy Hale
R: Renouf/Bailey Mitch Sewell
Int: Bateman Bruce Ellis E: Savage/Shiels/Hallahan(could play round 1)

Would be the quickest centreline in the AFL - Smith Burger Young.

The above team would be one of the fastest in the league - Birch & Poo out of defence, Smith Burger Young on the wings, Cyril and Buddy in the fwd line.

Yes I know Murphy has been very good but honestly, IF shoe comes on as we all hope and Puopolo continues his form from the SANFL (esp considering we NEED more speed out of the backline), who's place would he take?

 

[ryzz]

Absolutely agree big lance, we look so much more damaging pumping the ball into buddy and rough, generally off the boot of youngy. watching some gear on isaac smith, i also agree with bender on getting him onto the wing at some stage this year. the pace, carry and I50's alone those two dudes would provide would be awesome. means our big boys can stay in the forward line and really let some defenders sweat on having to deal with bud + rough and co.

just watching youngys 60m balls to buddy on a lead, 1 on 1 in space is awesome

 

[Judd2Sewell]

According to me:
​

Puopolo - Gilham - Gibson
Birchall - Schoenmakers - Stratton

Renouf - Mitchell - Sewell
Young - Hodge - Smith

Lewis - Franklin - Burgoyne
Osborne - Roughead - Rioli

Interchange: Ellis, Hale, Bateman
Emergency: a raffle
​

 

[burner1]

Anyone that doesn't have Young in the best 22 on the wing needs to watch Hawthorn play occasionally. We look at our most dangerous with Young sprinting full pelt through the middle and booming it down to Buddy. Watch rnd 22 vs Collingwood for examples.

Sorry have to disagree there - young is one of the most overrated players on our list - he has little bursts like in that pies games but over the course of a season he is very inconsistent with a pretty average output. Yes he boots the ball long but IMO he's an average kick - rarely puts the ball to a forwards advantage. Opposition teams have worked him out - he can't handle any defensive pressure and is shut down by a tagger quite easily.
Hopefully in 2011 we will have some outside running depth in smith, savage, shiels, wx etc to really put the acid on young.

 

[Hodginator]

Anyone that doesn't have Young in the best 22 on the wing needs to watch Hawthorn play occasionally. We look at our most dangerous with Young sprinting full pelt through the middle and booming it down to Buddy. Watch rnd 22 vs Collingwood for examples.

Agree. Madness not having Young in the team, one of our most damaging players.