Discussion The VFA premierships debate - should they be recognised as elite level premierships?

[Jimmy Russell]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-06-09/afl-knocks-back-cats-bid-for-extra-flags

Geelong's bid to the AFL to count VFA premierships with VFL/AFL premierships was officially knocked back yesterday.

However, the AFL commission has decided to give each club the option to decide how they recognise their own history.

This brings us back to the debate over which premierships should count and which ones shouldn't count.

It's mainly supporters of interstate clubs arguing that premierships won since the AFL began in 1990 are the only ones that should count since that year is recognised as the league becoming a national competition, and no longer being a state league.

Supporters of Victorian clubs argue that premierships won since the league formed as the VFL in 1897 should be the ones that count, just like the current league governing body does, meaning that premierships won in other state league competitions such as the VFA, SANFL and WAFL shouldn't count.

The Geelong Football Club and it's supporters are the only people that are willing to push for VFA premierships won prior to 1897 to count too, since the VFA was apparently the highest Aussie Rules league in Australia at the time.

If Geelong and their supporters got their wish, then this would open the door for Port Adelaide to push forward their case to have their SANFL premierships counted, as it's argued that the SANFL and VFL were both relatively even prior to the formation of the national competition.

Do you think that VFA premierships should be recognised as tier 1 premierships?

 

[The Gong]

South Melbourne won five VFA premierships so....absolutely.

 

[Exe Gesis]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-06-09/afl-knocks-back-cats-bid-for-extra-flags

Geelong's bid to the AFL to count VFA premierships with VFL/AFL premierships was officially knocked back yesterday.

However, the AFL commission has decided to give each club the option to decide how they recognise their own history.

This brings us back to the debate over which premierships should count and which ones shouldn't count.

It's mainly supporters of interstate clubs arguing that premierships won since the AFL began in 1990 are the only ones that should count since that year is recognised as the league becoming a national competition, and no longer being a state league.

Supporters of Victorian clubs argue that premierships won since the league formed as the VFL in 1897 should be the ones that count, just like the current league governing body does, meaning that premierships won in other state league competitions such as the VFA, SANFL and WAFL shouldn't count.

The Geelong Football Club and it's supporters are the only people that are willing to push for VFA premierships won prior to 1897 to count too, since the VFA was apparently the highest Aussie Rules league in Australia at the time.

If Geelong and their supporters got their wish, then this would open the door for Port Adelaide to push forward their case to have their SANFL premierships counted, as it's argued that the SANFL and VFL were both relatively even prior to the formation of the national competition.

Do you think that VFA premierships should be recognised as tier 1 premierships?

Yes

 

[SilentHunter_]

Hmm... let's see does this improve my club's premiership tally? I see it does. Then yes why of course!

 

[Hawkk]

Just a desperate flag grab. I mean until this year the Geelong Football Club supposedly didnt even recognise their VFA success in the club's premiership grandstand (which houses the club museum)

Success won in a different competition should not be recognized under the jurisdiction of the VFL/AFL. If the clubs want to hang some art in the changing rooms that is their prerogative.

 

[Malifice]

We do and it lifts Carlton to the top of the premiership table on 22, ahead of Essendon on 20.

Thus, I think its a great idea.

 

[Hawkk]

We do and it lifts Carlton to the top of the premiership table on 22, ahead of Essendon on 20.

Thus, I think its a great idea.

The VFA began in 1877 so it doesnt...

The Carlton Football Club had two successes in the 1877-1896 VFA competition

 

[who_let_the_dogs_out]

As a Footscray supporter I'm all for VFA flags being counted to the tally. We won quite a few.

But in all seriousness, they really don't have any relevance to be considered.

 

[Cynic]

Does anyone really care?

Clubs harking on about how many flags they've won is a load of rubbish; all that really matters is how many flags they've won in your lifetime in my books.

 

[MinerBoy]

Clubs should certainly recognise all flags they've won. They still aren't relevant to this competition though.

 

[Hawkk]

Whats the difference between the Geelong Cats 1878 VFA flag and the Western Bulldogs 1924 VFA flag. The Dogs rolled the 1924 VFL premier in a Challenge game so I guess that should be recognised too...

 

[SJ]

Do you think that VFA premierships should be recognised as tier 1 premierships?

Yes.

But they should not be recognised as VFL/AFL premierships.

But it shouldn't stop at the VFA. The AFL (as the governing body of the sport, not as the organiser of the league) should do far more to recognise football history outside of its own domain.

 

[Lensen]

i'm staggered anyone actually cares whether flags won 130 years ago "count" at a competition level

 

[The Gong]

Clubs should certainly recognise all flags they've won. They still aren't relevant to this competition though.

Agreed. Familiarity with the history of your club is very important but the relevance of a small state based league in the 1800s is dubious at best. I realise there are still numerous imbalances in the way the AFL is run but its a lot closer to a level playing field than what has historically been the case.

 

[10571z]

To be honest im only interested in AFL premierships. Pies have 2, other teams have less a few have more.

 

[SJ]

i'm staggered anyone actually cares whether flags won 130 years ago "count" at a competition level

I'm staggered at the obsession over the concept of "counting". "Counting" to what?!

I picked up a coin and flipped a head. Does that "count"? Not if I'm trying to design an aircraft carrier, but if I were conducting an experiment of probability it would. Depends on what you're talking about!

Anything "counts" when in the right context.

 

[SilentHunter_]

To be honest im only interested in AFL premierships. Pies have 2, other teams have less a few have more.

This. In my humble opinion the only flags that truly matter are the ones won in the ACTUAL AFL era.

 

[SJ]

This. In my humble opinion the only flags that truly matter are the ones won in the ACTUAL AFL era.

On one hand nothing ever "matters" and yet everything "matters" in the right context.

If the AFL rebranded itself as the ZAFL next year, you would probably think the 2012 AFL flag somewhat "mattered". Nothing special happened in 1990 apart from a new name and a new logo.

 

[SilentHunter_]

On one hand nothing ever "matters" and yet everything "matters" in the right context.

If the AFL rebranded itself as the ZAFL next year, you would probably think the 2012 AFL flag somewhat "mattered". Nothing special happened in 1990 apart from a new name and a new logo.

Well one major difference is that the competitiveness of the national competition increased. I mean the current 'accepted premierships' goes back to 1897 ffs. Like who actually cares who won back then?

 

[RUNVS]

I would only include the premierships from when the AFL was formed. I mean who cares how many premierships clubs got when it was only a Victorian competition.

 

[SJ]

Well one major difference is that the competitiveness of the national competition increased.

The competition did not become more national in 1990 than in 1989.

I mean the current 'accepted premierships' go back to 1897 ffs. Like who actually cares who won back then?

Who cares who won last weekend?

Who cares who won last year?

Who cares who won in the 1990s?

Who cares who won in the 1930s?

Who cares who won in the 1890s?

Who cares who won in the 1850s?

Whoever chooses to.

 

[Murraj1966]

1897 to the present only.

One league. No Sanfl no Wafl no VFA.

 

[RUNVS]

1897 to the present only.

One league. No Sanfl no Wafl no VFA.

Should be no VFL either.

 

[SJ]

1897 to the present only.

One league. No Sanfl no Wafl no VFA.

At an 'AFL as the league' level I completely agree with you.

The problem is the sport and history of Australian football, including the histories of most current AFL clubs, actually extends back outside of the VFL/AFL.

There is now no overarching body to oversee Australian football as the AFL gobbled up the ANFC in the 1990s.

So at an 'AFL as the keeper of the code' level I would say the AFL has done a poor job at acknowledging the sport outside its own domain. Most of the time if you didn't know any better you'd think the sport was invented in 1897.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

Should be no VFL either.

Why?