The war against renewable energy

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Cap said:
Your post was the equivalent of my next door neighbour explaining why climate change is a myth because he has been measuring rain in rain gauge for 40 years.

You know anecdotal šŸ˜‰
Click to expand...

Sorry i used publicly listed data. I haven't been measuring anything.
The factor i used for CO2 per litre of petrol burned was actually one of the more conservative ones. The FCAI for example , ( Federal Chamber of Automotive Industry ) calculate less CO2 per litre of petrol than the factor i used.
The factor i use is the factor i use when reporting the company i work for's CO2 emissions to the European HQ. Publically listed companies in Europe have to report their global footprint.

The CO2/kwh is known, not anecdotal. I used the official value that the government provide to the electricity companies.
The amount of Kwh/100km in a Tesla 3 has been tested by Tesla, Governments and many tests. Not anacdotal.

Its you making things up here. I can explain all my sources.
I can't help it if the simple math is beyond you.

But deeerp i must be one of the stupid Aussies, cos anecdotal.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
Sorry i used publicly listed data. I haven't been measuring anything.
The factor i used for CO2 per litre of petrol burned was actually one of the more conservative ones. The FCAI for example , ( Federal Chamber of Automotive Industry ) calculate less CO2 per litre of petrol than the factor i used.

The CO2/kwh is known, not anecdotal. I used the official value that the government provide to the electricity companies.
The amount of Kwh/100km in a Tesla 3 has been tested by Tesla, Governments and many tests. Not anacdotal.

Its you making things up here. I can explain all my sources.
I can't help it if the simple math is beyond you.
Click to expand...
your posts are completely anecdotal.

Its rather amusing how you are trying to pass them off as anything else.
 
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Cap said:
your posts are completely anecdotal.

Its rather amusing how you are trying to pass them off as anything else.
Click to expand...

Amazing what small things amuse.
Do you have any non anecdotal information to contradict me, or should we all just bow down because you said "its wrong".

My numbers are correct and you don't have any, anecdotal or otherwise.

Please tell me how much CO2 a Tesla charging on the Victorian grid is responsible for emitting.
I'd suggest you can't.

Easy to sit back and yell no.
 

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peetoo said:
All these cars are equally low pollution when sitting in a driveway which in a lot of cases is all but 100- 200 hours a year.
99% of the time

Excuse me for not rushing to spend $50k and thinking Iā€™m saving the planet.
Spend on rooftop solar, battery and itā€™s working at least 30% of the time

Maybe Aussies arenā€™t so dumb after all
Click to expand...

You can get a BYD for less then 40k that can load shift you home power usage so you donā€™t draw any dirty power from gridā€¦ whilst itā€™s sitting in your drive away 99% of the time.
 
nut said:
You can get a BYD for less then 40k that can load shift you home power usage so you donā€™t draw any dirty power from gridā€¦ whilst itā€™s sitting in your drive away 99% of the time.
Click to expand...

The Mitsubishi PHEV's have the ability to do that as well, though they obviously have less storage. A lot of brands only have slow charging and you can't take the electricity back out.
PHEV's have the potential to run on sustainable electricity.
Petrol fueled hybrids don't.

Mazda will be bringing in a CX5 based hybrid soon, hopefully more affordable than their current offerings.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
Amazing what small things amuse.
Do you have any non anecdotal information to contradict me, or should we all just bow down because you said "its wrong".

My numbers are correct and you don't have any, anecdotal or otherwise.

Please tell me how much CO2 a Tesla charging on the Victorian grid is responsible for emitting.
I'd suggest you can't.

Easy to sit back and yell no.
Click to expand...
i don't need to prove you wrong, your distinct lack of any supporting evidence does all the work for me.

But Good on you for your doctorate in google search, but again it's as impressive to me as my next door neighbours rain guage.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
The Mitsubishi PHEV's have the ability to do that as well, though they obviously have less storage. A lot of brands only have slow charging and you can't take the electricity back out.
PHEV's have the potential to run on sustainable electricity.
Petrol fueled hybrids don't.

Mazda will be bringing in a CX5 based hybrid soon, hopefully more affordable than their current offerings.
Click to expand...
Legacy makers are on the road to nowhere and will go bankrupt if they think PHEVs are the future.

15 minutes to charge from
20% to 80% is the new standard for fast charging ā€¦
 
nut said:
Legacy makers are on the road to nowhere and will go bankrupt if they think PHEVs are the future.

15 minutes to charge from
20% to 80% is the new standard for fast charging ā€¦
Click to expand...
The Mitsubishi i favor has fast charging capability. Many PHEV's don't but i think that's changing.
I wouldn't say its the standard just yet, it needs infrastructure and costs around $80K to install one.
All those free chargers around the place are not DC fast chargers.

The national infrastructure isn't there yet, which is why there is a place for PHEV's. ( I don't really see the point of the non-plug in ones ).

PHEV's are becoming more popular in Europe now too.
 
Cap said:
i don't need to prove you wrong, your distinct lack of any supporting evidence does all the work for me.

But Good on you for your doctorate in google search, but again it's as impressive to me as my next door neighbours rain guage.
Click to expand...

I named my sources, which numbers do you find iffy?
I can always link stuff like this if needed.


At one point i charted those out , since i've been using the data for a good few years now.
Its good to see the CO2/kwh gradually creeping down.
Its not so long since it was 1.4

"BUT YOUR WRONG YOU MADE IT UP" you yell at me.
 
I agree with this article, which compares electric car emissions to ICE Vehicles.
But many of the reasons that they claim EV's are more efficient is also true for a lot of hybrid vehicles.

www.carsguide.com.au

Why EVs are more energy efficient than combustion cars even if they're powered by coal

Although the benefits of electric cars are pretty obvious by now ā€” they produce no harmful emissions and run on electricity, which can be both cheaper and cleaner than fossil fuels ā€” there are still those who like to point out that the electricity used to power them often comes from burning...
www.carsguide.com.au www.carsguide.com.au
 
nut said:
Legacy makers are on the road to nowhere and will go bankrupt if they think PHEVs are the future.

15 minutes to charge from
20% to 80% is the new standard for fast charging ā€¦
Click to expand...

While you are correct about charging times for fast charging from 20 to 80%,

Having recently done a drive in an EV covering hundreds of kilometres across Germany and France (where there is a greater number of charging stations, by the way), it added significant hours to my trip.

First, you need to find the charge station. Fairly easy ahead of time using an app, but it would have been more annoying if I didn't have my partner with me as I wouldn't have wanted to use my phone while driving and needed to pull over. Let's say you don't need to pull over and are organised ahead of time. Next you need to get to the charge station. This usually required exiting the freeway/highway that you're on. Add an average of 7.5 minutes to get off the freeway and to the in-town, more traffic-dense location where the fast charger is AND then another 7.5 minutes back to the freeway afterwards. Then, of course you can charge for 15 mins from 20-80%. This must be factored in, as many fast-chargers are NOT located exactly where you need them to be on a highway service station exactly when you are around 20%. Per charge average: 30 mins.

Now, in conjunction with one of my earlier comments in the thread (385km range on the freeway is from 0-100%, but I donā€™t want to charge it below 20% or above 80% so it becomes every 230km that Iā€™m stopping"), this gives me (theoretically) just over 2 hours at 110km/h before I need to stop and charge again. Let's say I was planning on getting from Melbourne to Sydney in a day. In a conventional vehicle, this would be about 9hrs 11 mins + 19 mins for one fill up = 9 hrs 30 mins. In an EV, my 876km trip will require four charges. (9hrs 11 mins + 30*4 = 11 hrs 11 min).

This is a trip that takes me at least 1.5 - 2 hours longer.

I am a big advocate for EVs, but we need to have a mix of EVs and petrol fuelled cars and its wise to think about the best option for each individual so people don't become overly disullisioned later. I have the lived experience in 2024, do you?
 

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SaintsSeptember said:
I named my sources, which numbers do you find iffy?
I can always link stuff like this if needed.


At one point i charted those out , since i've been using the data for a good few years now.
Its good to see the CO2/kwh gradually creeping down.
Its not so long since it was 1.4

"BUT YOUR WRONG YOU MADE IT UP" you yell at me.
Click to expand...
But you have made it up.

I don't know how else to tell you, you've cobbled together sources of information to create a position which satisfies you that your position on hybirds is correct.

My bar isn't that low.

Hybirds aren't sold for any other reason than they are cheaper to make and sell than full EVs and at this stage (although contested) are better than ICE at lowering CO2 emissions. I've got no issue with hybrids, but they are what they are.
 
rjslcM said:
While you are correct about charging times for fast charging from 20 to 80%,

Having recently done a drive in an EV covering hundreds of kilometres across Germany and France (where there is a greater number of charging stations, by the way), it added significant hours to my trip.

First, you need to find the charge station. Fairly easy ahead of time using an app, but it would have been more annoying if I didn't have my partner with me as I wouldn't have wanted to use my phone while driving and needed to pull over. Let's say you don't need to pull over and are organised ahead of time. Next you need to get to the charge station. This usually required exiting the freeway/highway that you're on. Add an average of 7.5 minutes to get off the freeway and to the in-town, more traffic-dense location where the fast charger is AND then another 7.5 minutes back to the freeway afterwards. Then, of course you can charge for 15 mins from 20-80%. This must be factored in, as many fast-chargers are NOT located exactly where you need them to be on a highway service station exactly when you are around 20%. Per charge average: 30 mins.

Now, in conjunction with one of my earlier comments in the thread (385km range on the freeway is from 0-100%, but I donā€™t want to charge it below 20% or above 80% so it becomes every 230km that Iā€™m stopping"), this gives me (theoretically) just over 2 hours at 110km/h before I need to stop and charge again. Let's say I was planning on getting from Melbourne to Sydney in a day. In a conventional vehicle, this would be about 9hrs 11 mins + 19 mins for one fill up = 9 hrs 30 mins. In an EV, my 876km trip will require four charges. (9hrs 11 mins + 30*4 = 11 hrs 11 min).

This is a trip that takes me at least 1.5 - 2 hours longer.

I am a big advocate for EVs, but we need to have a mix of EVs and petrol fuelled cars and its wise to think about the best option for each individual so people don't become overly disullisioned later. I have the lived experience in 2024, do you?
Click to expand...

Driving an EV takes a little planning at the moment..
Letā€™s look at Melb to Sydney.
Iā€™ll use your 385km range as an entry level EV range.
From stating at 100% down to 20% thatā€™s 308km for first charge.. then 243 kilometers next charge extra.
Melb to Sydney stopping at Barnawartha 300km for coffee and a 15 minute charge ā€¦ 30minute stop.
Barna to Gundagai ā€¦ lunch and another 30minute stop. Then itā€™s pick and choose another stop heading into Sydney.
so about 1.5 hours onto your trip.
You mentioned buying an outlander PHEV, they are around 60k .. for under 60k you can get an EV with over 500km range. One stop to Sydney..


Anyhow, how often do you drive to Sydney?
Most people are driven by cost.
What would that 2 hours extra convenience cost you?
So a PHEV saves you 2 hours to Sydney and you are going to ignore all the other advantages of an EV?
ā€¦
One argument againsts EVs is the initial cost of an EV.
Yet people ignore the Running costs over the next 5-10 years.

I met a couple on a pension with an EV, they go for drives virtually everyday, they have solar so can charge their car for freeā€¦ they treat themselves with a lunch somewhere with the money they save on petrol.
 
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nut said:
Driving an EV takes a little planning at the moment..
Letā€™s look at Melb to Sydney.
Iā€™ll use your 385km range as an entry level EV range.
From stating at 100% down to 20% thatā€™s 308km for first charge.. then 243 kilometers next charge extra.
Melb to Sydney stopping at Barnawartha 300km for coffee and a 15 minute charge ā€¦ 30minute stop.
Barna to Gundagai ā€¦ lunch and another 30minute stop. Then itā€™s pick and choose another stop heading into Sydney.
so about 1.5 hours onto your trip.
You mentioned buying an outlander PHEV, they are around 60k .. for under 60k you can get an EV with over 500km range. One stop to Sydney..


Anyhow, how often do you drive to Sydney?
Most people are driven by cost.
What would that 2 hours extra convenience cost you?
So a PHEV saves you 2 hours to Sydney and you are going to ignore all the other advantages of an EV?
ā€¦
One argument againsts EVs is the initial cost of an EV.
Yet people ignore the Running costs over the next 5-10 years.

I met a couple on a pension with an EV, they go for drives virtually everyday, they have solar so can charge their car for freeā€¦ they treat themselves with a lunch somewhere with the money they save on petrol.
Click to expand...

Not often, but when Iā€™ve finally got some time off work and Iā€™m driving from location to location for holidays with my partner, extra time spent driving and charging is less time to enjoy time at our destination. So a few times a year. Plus more regular weekend trips to rural places to visit family where again, the same thing applies, I have limited time to do everything I need to on the weekend.

It wasnā€™t me who said I was interested in buying an outlander. But yeah, Iā€™d like a hybrid. If I was getting two cars, Iā€™d get an EV and a non EV and use the EV as the daily. I like the idea of having two cars fuelled by different types of energy as security also.

That is a nice story about the couple on a pension with the EV and solar panel, sounds like a nice way to pass the days in the twilight years.
 
nut said:
Are you reality digging up articles from 2022?
Click to expand...

Didn't see a lot of newer ones to be honest.
I can see that someone has now installed another fast charger ( 4 outlets ) on the trip, at Sutton Forrest ( where the big McDonalds are either side of the freeway ).
That's probably useful for a lot of drivers, because i think the Tesla stations ( Goulbourn ) charge extra for non-Teslas.
 
Cap said:
Its going to continually improve, but Govts need to get infrastructure right.

Next car will be an EV like the vast majority of Australians by average daily use is minimal, the occasions where I drive long distances (which is regularly) I've already seen the charging stations so im lucky.
Click to expand...

Private companies are investing in fast chargers..

Even at $1 a kilowatt itā€™s cheaper than petrol and a handy profit for the Charging company,
 

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The war against renewable energy

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