Secondary Thinking about becoming a teacher

[jannissary]

Any comments, teachers?

SCHOOLS ‘BREACH HUMAN RIGHTS BY KICKING OUT KIDS’

SCHOOLS ‘BREACH HUMAN RIGHTS BY KICKING OUT KIDS’

todayspaper.theaustralian.com.au

difficult for everyone involved.

i currently teach a kid with some pretty severe mental health issues, behavior issues, learning issues et, been suspended 4 times this term for being an idiot, threatening other teachers and what not, and while he's never threatened me personally it's clear that he's not safe for others within the school and broader community, his parent have no clue what to do, he's in trouble every other week for doing stupid shit to other kids, but what do you do? should he be excluded because of the broad range of issues that he has?

i think that's what everyone needs to ask when a student is at risk of being excluded

 

[jannissary]

So much time and resources is spent on so few that have such little chance of making any form of positive contribution to society ever. To the absolute detriment of everyone else who does. There comes a point when a line has to be drawn where it’s in society’s best interests to not have them in the public school system. It’s better to not have them at school at all. That’s the brutal truth. Sure, for them this is the worst outcome, but you have to look at it holistically from a wider perspective of an entire school community. Responsibility has to be put on the people that made the decision to bring them into the world in the first place, which is their parents.

It’s incredible what a difference to the overall learning environment one severely disruptive student (or the absence of one particular disruptive student) can have. You can feel the sense of relief.

broadly speaking i agree with this sentiment but anecdotally it sets those problem students up for a future which is exceptionally bleak. i was talking to my mom (also a teacher who’s taught at a range of schools from top private schools to some of the worst in rural victoria) about the kids/teenagers who went on a crime spree in melbourne earlier this week and she basically said that excluding them from the system will continue that cycle of neglect & crime for them. something that’s been shared with me by another member of staff is that those problem students will invariably be pushed to do VCAL/VM as it keeps them out of the classrooms

i currently teach at a fairly low socio-economic school in melbourne’s south east & there’s been more than one or two times in term one that students were taken out of my class by admin to discuss “something” (and i did see the cop car out the front of the school at one of those times). how am i supposed to react to it? everything is on a need to know basis & i’m not important enough to be told when a new student joins my class, let alone something that serious.

it’s an admin nightmare and there’s no easy fix because welfare groups will invariably argue that young people (rightfully) have a right to learn

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

It’s certainly a terrible dilemma and symptomatic of wider problems in society: alcohol, drugs, poverty, homelessness, welfare dependency, DV. These problem kids, or most of them, would have one or more of these in their background. Excluding them is not a solution, but neither is prioritising their “rights” over the rights of the ones doing the right thing.

One other factor that I’ve banged on about a few times here and that is the influence of the internet and the pervasive presence of mobile phones. Lo and behold, this article appeared in the weekend paper.

BIG TECH AND THE SHOCK TO CHILDHOOD

https://todayspaper.theaustralian.com.au/infinity/article_popover_share.aspx?guid=c0e7b8f1-61ed-405c-9adf-95e2d8f61ed2&share=true

 

[Forward Press]

My mental health days are becoming more frequent in the past couple of years...took another one today. It's my third of the year when normally I'd have about two or three in a whole year. I already took the first two weeks off this term as unpaid leave too in the hopes it would be a 'reset' for the 11 week term but it hasn't really worked.

Don't get me wrong - I love my job, nothing beats the feeling of a good lesson where most or all of the kids are enjoying going along for the ride, and admittedly I am at one of the top public schools - but the bullshit is piling up most of which is mentioned in the past few posts. The pointless bureaucracy, the culture of mediocrity, the excessive attention we have to give to the difficult kids at the expense of the top kids who I really, really want to help succeed but I just don't have the time unless I want to sacrifice my decompression time at home. My school recently had to deal with a kid that made the news by bringing a knife to school to threaten staff and students and commit an armed robbery - he is only 13 years old ffs.

My friends have sent me articles about how the most common aspiration for Chinese students is to be an astronaut or doctor and for Australian students is to be a Youtuber or sports star and I'm starting to think it's true.

Importantly, it seems like many parents are starting to not give a shit and when that happens, guess what their kids are like when they drop them off at school? Or when they graduate and no longer have to go to school? (that's another thing as well that gets my goat, how every student now moves onto the next year or graduates - I was told off in a previous school when I failed a kid that did no work with zero support from admin, he was so 'brave' to choose to repeat Year 12). Maybe it's time to re-evaluate what I can achieve in my role.

Apologies for the late night rant.

 

[Forward Press]

What's 'phoning it in'?

I agree to some extent but to say move on if decent kids struggle with engagement is a bit far fetched. If you have a class of 23 it's hard to engage all.

IMO I think its time to move on to other schools when you feel like you're part of the furniture. At my school we have staff that are 20+ years there. Some were students there and now teach there (have never been anywhere else).

Maybe leave the profession if don't find excitement and joy in what you do.

I love seeing the students eyes light up when they learn something new. Yes I can be known as the grumpy or tough teacher, but its because I demand high expectations of my students and good manners.

• line up outside in 2 lines
• come to the floor quietly
• writing is silent time (there is always discussion time allocated in explicit/whole class discussion)
• if expectations are explicitly stated, they must be followed
• clean up after ourselves.

I have 4 class rules:

• We show resilience and persistence
• Care for our ourselves and focus on us
• Show respect to our teachers and peers
• Keep our classroom, property and school tidy.

Somehow missed this but all good points. And I do mostly follow your routines.

More the idea that if you're just doing the same thing year in year out without making no effort to engage in reflective practice - then maybe find something else to do with your life. There is nothing wrong with reusing lessons from previous years if the curriculum is the same and it worked last time - but there is something wrong in sticking with how you did it 20 years ago because that's how it was done, screw the curriculum and this newfangled 'internet' and 'Microsoft Word' (exaggeration obviously). There are teachers at my school like this, cannot really blame them though as there are far more challenging schools out there and it's easy to be comfortable.

And I think kids can tell when you've had it, this year has been a bit challenging with my mix of students but I still try very hard to engage even the more difficult kids (the ones I picked up this year had their previous teachers describe to me the issues that plagued the class but for me, so far, they have been mostly fine and manageable as long as I implemented the routines similar to what you described in those dot points). I like to think that I am the somewhat 'grumpy or tough teacher' but also one that loves what he does and has absolutely no time for those that want to disrupt those that actually want to have a go or do their best.

Maybe it's just my venting at the end of a mental health day only 14 weeks into the school year...

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

How many of you use the direct instruction strategy in your classrooms? Is it becoming common in schools? I’ve only read about it recently, about how student teachers are being taken back to scratch and learn the tools of explicit instruction, especially for young children. It makes sense to me and I’ve heard about some great outcomes. But I would imagine that all staff should be onboard with it.

 

[Jack Richards]

I'm more Gradual Release.

 

[Jack Richards]

Herald Sun article today labelled:

Staff shortages, lenient consequences for poor behaviour driving disrespect in the classroom​

In my opinion, the disrespect stems from a current generation of parents with no respect and taking no responsibility.

The current perception that we as educators are lazy even from politicians is astounding.

 

[kickazz]

In my opinion, the disrespect stems from a current generation of parents with no respect and taking no responsibility.

I hear talk now about teaching things like basic manners and what not in the classroom. You know, stuff parents should be doing.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I hear talk now about teaching things like basic manners and what not in the classroom. You know, stuff parents should be doing.

As long as someone is

 

[bUCKET__]

But I'm not qualified to teach basic manners, I'm an absolute arseh*le

 

[MrsBlueSky]

A problem that appears to me is parents seem to rule the roost at schools these days instead of the headmaster and it would be putting a lot of people off becoming a teacher.

 

[Forward Press]

A problem that appears to me is parents seem to rule the roost at schools these days instead of the headmaster and it would be putting a lot of people off becoming a teacher.

It's a wider cultural and systemic issue - this comic gets reposted often with a few minor variations.

Instead of fighting it - you have to embrace it, whether you agree with it or not. The sovereignty of child and parent is paramount. And if the parent has no respect for the education system and thinks being anti-authority is great and is working a FIFO job earning $250k without a high school certificate...

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

 

[Roylion]

It's a wider cultural and systemic issue - this comic gets reposted often with a few minor variations.

Instead of fighting it - you have to embrace it, whether you agree with it or not.

I don't embrace it.

The sovereignty of child and parent is paramount.

I decide grades and whether a student has passed my course. Not parents.

 

[jannissary]

It's a wider cultural and systemic issue - this comic gets reposted often with a few minor variations.

Instead of fighting it - you have to embrace it, whether you agree with it or not. The sovereignty of child and parent is paramount. And if the parent has no respect for the education system and thinks being anti-authority is great and is working a FIFO job earning $250k without a high school certificate...

easier to faux accept fault than tell a parent their kid's an idiot.

had PTI recently, told a parent that her daughter does no work in my class, ignores my instruction, ignores the classwork, constantly gets her phone taken away and was shocked by this when it got said for the third time that day. kid's don't communicate with their parents and most parent's done give a shit about their kids schooling so long as it doesn't disturb them

 

[Forward Press]

I don't embrace it.


I decide grades and whether a student has passed my course. Not parents.

Great - but there's no denying there is increasing pressure on teachers overall to turn the below standard to mediocre enough to scrape through. Good for you as an individual and I hope you stand your ground for the rest of your career. I was hauled before a principal for refusing to issue a pass to a student that didn't hand in work for me to mark in the first place and the student had to be 'commended' for being 'brave' to repeat Year 12.

After that I figured it's not worth it - good luck to employers, your problem now once the last day of Year 12 is over.

 

[Roylion]

I was hauled before a principal for refusing to issue a pass to a student that didn't hand in work for me to mark in the first place and the student had to be 'commended' for being 'brave' to repeat Year 12.

I've had pressure placed on me to pass students for various reasons. In the end its my decision. I'm the teacher and assessor and in the end I make the final decision, irrespective of what a principal would like to see happen.

 

[jannissary]

I've had pressure placed on me to pass students for various reasons. In the end its my decision. I'm the teacher and assessor and in the end I make the final decision, irrespective of what a principal would like to see happen.

i’ve noticed this too, a student submitted a penis for an analytical essay and i was told to “just keep them where they were last year” when uploading feed back - no progression made

 

[pepsi]

It paints to a societal issue in Australia, which education reflects. A drop in standards, respect, care for others, empathy, looking out for others. Australian society has gone the way of a me, me, me attitude with a drop in community. Some jobs with low qualification requirements get paid high amounts of money. Parents also want to be friends with their kids.

Then there is technology, gaming, social media, etc.

 

[Roylion]

i’ve noticed this too, a student submitted a penis for an analytical essay and i was told to “just keep them where they were last year” when uploading feed back - no progression made

Year 11 and year 12, that's often an instant 'N' for the unit and hence the semester, depending on the structure of the course at that school.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Just found this forum so thought I'd say hi. Primary myself, came to it later in life (mid 40s been teaching a few years) and highly recommend the switch if it's something you're passionate about. I love it, but absolutely agree that the current system where it comes to special needs students (be that behaviour/diagnoses, etc.) is not fit for purpose. Undoubtedly decisions are made with the best of intentions, but they have ended up as a huge disservice to everyone, including the child. It's a shame as teaching is an amazing profession, when you can teach.

 

[jannissary]

what do you do with your time in lessons where you have like 5 students present.

it's exam week and i've got a split year 9/10 class and like 90% of my class has ended up being year 10s and they're all absent as they're not required at school for exams.

it's a snoozefest now and it's only going to get worse

 

[Forward Press]

what do you do with your time in lessons where you have like 5 students present.

it's exam week and i've got a split year 9/10 class and like 90% of my class has ended up being year 10s and they're all absent as they're not required at school for exams.

it's a snoozefest now and it's only going to get worse

Build rapport, shoot the breeze, talk about random shit. Basically anything but actual school work. Maybe catch up on work missed but I suspect at Year 9 level they're quite disengaged anyway if there's no assessment pressure.

In the old days it's good old movie time but nowadays there's no point as everyone can watch movies on their phones.

 

[jannissary]

Build rapport, shoot the breeze, talk about random shit. Basically anything but actual school work. Maybe catch up on work missed but I suspect at Year 9 level they're quite disengaged anyway if there's no assessment pressure.

In the old days it's good old movie time but nowadays there's no point as everyone can watch movies on their phones.

it's a mixed bunch, some very smart kids mixed in with some who don't care about school. i've put on some random movie that they wanted to watch with the caveat of them doing revision for their actual subject which they seem to be doing.

i just think it's ill-advised to have classes running concurrently with exams because a lot of the learning will be disjointed