This is double jeopardy - pure & simple - Peter Gordon certainly thinks so..

[tesla1962]

Money money money. Sport tribunals and even governments haven't proven reliable in this particular area, hence an international court of arbitration that gets to retest that which might have been subject to wobbly handling the first time around.

Crimes against the state, attracting gaol sentences or not, are a different matter altogether. Nobody has seen the need for handling outside of state criminal legislation - there has been no cry for an international benchmark etc.

This isn't the only example of erosion of common law rights either - it's just the one of this thread. It might be a justified erosion even. I haven't finished thinking it through.

Ok so we are back to the AFL can't be trusted to run its tribunal independently despite the fact that both WADA and AFL jointly signed up to this process. This much was clear to me when McDevitt chose to ignore his option to appeal, which would have been the correct thing to do if he thought the wrong decision was made.

Please don't tell me WADA are putting 34 players lives on hold to 'test the standard of comfortable satisfaction'.

 

[andrewb]

It's all a bit farcical. If the case is heard de novo at CAS it makes sense that there should be an opportunity for appeal, and not a limited appeal at some Swiss court, a proper appeals process.

 

[hoianbulldog]

So Gordon would prefer every local sporting body across the world to rule on its own Athletes without any appeal options. It would certainly clean up sport Peter, there would be no guilty Athletes.

If he had come out and said that a CAS type hearing which is truly independent should be the first body to hear a case then I'd give him a tick. His comments a just bollocks as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Big Fozza]

Imo this is a perfect example of why this appeal / re prosecution is in the rule book: you can't trust the sporting body to inflict punishment on itself - so when it doesn't or it seems a bit off it is taken to the big dog to have a look at

 

[Oscarman]

Trying to deflect from the Clay Smith issue?

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I wonder if Slater and Gordon have ever appealed Court decisions for their clients.
If they have I bet they did it in the best interests of justice

 

[good4footy]

Players skipping SCN stage to go straight to Tribunal = good
ASADA skipping AFL appeals tribunal stage to go straight to CAS = bad

'ASADA takes too long- 'they are bad'.
ASADA skipping step to get matter to CAS and save time - 'they are bad'.
Can't please some people no matter what you do when they have one outcome only in mind- players getting off regardless.

 

[Proper Gander]

Ok so we are back to the AFL can't be trusted to run it's tribunal independently despite the fact that both WADA and AFL jointly signed up to this process. This much was clear to me when McDevitt chose to ignore his option to appeal, the correct thing to do if he thought the wrong decision was made.

Please don't tell me WADA are putting 34 players lives on hold to 'test the standard of comfortable satisfaction'.

No. I'm not saying anything about the AFL tribunal. I saw no good reason to assume corruption in respect of that tribunal process or the members appointed to make the decision. I though and still think this was not the case. Others are suspicious, and have a right to that view given the AFL has in other areas shown a natural tendency to act in its own interests. Whatever. And I don't trouble myself too much with whether McD was correct in his decision to refer the case to WADA, rather than first appealing through the tribunal system (and potentially adding even more months to the affected players uncertainty). It is an option under the existing system that he can avail himself of if he chooses, and he chose. If McDev is to be prevented such meanness in future, than Australian sports will have to uncouple themselves from WADA.

I was watching the footy last night. I saw some EFC players on the screen so life doesn't appear totally on hold, so I don't plan on telling you anything along those lines. I have some sympathy for the pressure they are under, and having the possibility of an adverse decision once again hanging over them. I have some sympathy for a bunch of people facing court or tribunal decisions whatever the reason.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Western Bulldogs Chairman Peter Gordon is appalled WADA is appealing the case of the Essendon 34

Western Bulldogs president Peter Gordon says he is “appalled” by the World Anti-Doping Agency move to appeal the case of the “Essendon 34”.

Lawyer Gordon acted for 2 of the players now at the Bulldogs in ASADA’s failed AFL Anti-Doping Tribunal prosecution.

Gordon was critical of ASADA’s decision to spurn its opportunity to appeal the tribunal finding, a move that opened the door for WADA to attempt what he described as a “re-prosecution” of the players.

“Any lawyer who values basic common law principles and notions of justice will be as appalled as I am that the ASADA/WADA show continues in this way,” Gordon said.

“(There is an) abolition of the right to silence, reversal of the onus of proof, hearings in secret, abolition of the rule against double jeopardy".

“It’s really disappointing and I think it is a misnomer to call this an appeal — it is not an appeal, they (ASADA) had a right to appeal and they chose not to exercise it.

“So instead, this is a re-prosecution — we don’t make people charged with serious criminal offences go through that let alone these guys.”

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-the-essendon-34/story-fni5fazt-1227356830938

This is the WADA rules and what was signed up to. Put there so local Tribunals don't get away with local home town decisions. must be worried that a truly independent group might find them guilty with a proper level of comfortable satisfaction. Probably best going to the CAS from the start. That way one avoids all this. One hearing, one verdict then done with the prospects of the players in this case appealing to the Swiss Court if they believe there's an error of law.

Anyway, you told us all there was no way there was going to be an appeal

 

[RegHickeyStand]

So, were Port, Melbourne (Goodwin), Bulldogs, given the heads up that the fix was in? Must be pissed off now if that's the case.

 

[tesla1962]

No. I'm not saying anything about the AFL tribunal. I saw no good reason to assume corruption in respect of that tribunal process or the members appointed to make the decision. I though and still think this was not the case. Others are suspicious, and have a right to that view given the AFL has in other areas shown a natural tendency to act in its own interests. Whatever. And I don't trouble myself too much with whether McD was correct in his decision to refer the case to WADA, rather than first appealing through the tribunal system (and potentially adding even more months to the affected players uncertainty). It is an option under the existing system that he can avail himself of if he chooses, and he chose. If McDev is to be prevented such meanness in future, than Australian sports will have to uncouple themselves from WADA.

I was watching the footy last night. I saw some EFC players on the screen so life doesn't appear totally on hold, so I don't plan on telling you anything along those lines. I have some sympathy for the pressure they are under, and having the possibility of an adverse decision once again hanging over them. I have some sympathy for a bunch of people facing court or tribunal decisions whatever the reason.

I agree with Andrewb, the process is a farce at a lot of levels and that is what is being discussed.

But the players seem ok and they have your sympathy so all is good.

 

[thegerman]

This is Gordon:

 

[van peebles]

I agree with Andrewb, the process is a farce at a lot of levels and that is what is being discussed.

But the players seem ok and they have your sympathy so all is good.

Thought the "process" and all its twists and turns was discussed ad nauseum here for many months and most
posters knew this was the finish line.
There were some element that said it would never get to this and they seem to be scratching bottom of barrel now.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

This is the WADA rules and what was signed up to. Put there so local Tribunals don't get away with local home town decisions. must be worried that a truly independent group might find them guilty with a proper level of comfortable satisfaction. Probably best going to the CAS from the start. That way one avoids all this. One hearing, one verdict then done with the prospects of the players in this case appealing to the Swiss Court if they believe there's an error of law.

Anyway, you told us all there was no way there was going to be an appeal

It's just ridiculous isn't it. The AFL fraternity's and Essendon's reaction to this is that of a spoilt brat not used to not getting his own way.

The rules are the rules. Everyone knows them, and always have.

Why these whinge sessions like this one from Gordon are given any credence at all is beyond me.

 

[tesla1962]

Thought the "process" and all its twists and turns was discussed ad nauseum here for many months and most
posters knew this was the finish line.
There were some element that said it would never get to this and they seem to be scratching bottom of barrel now.

Lol van Peebles decides what is ripe for discussion and what is not. This topic is far more important than hird nodding his head on 360 the other night and only now we are beginning to see the detail of how it is playing out.

 

[van peebles]

Lol van Peebles decides what is ripe for discussion and what is not. This topic is far more important than hird nodding his head on 360 the other night and only now we are beginning to see the detail of how it is playing out.

Fair enough,Was pointing at{maybe not properly}the posters who are in complete shock at the CAS.
Not the posters who discuss this with level headedness,

 

[Blueyboy74]

Pretty strange comment coming from a lawyer but then again, Peter Gordon knows all about missing files and denying all knowledge, having been up to his ears in the Gillard-AWU scandal

 

[Proper Gander]

This is Gordon:

I love this image. Angry foil-head conspiracy cat is awesome.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

don't really see the point in complaining. It's the process, it's there in black & white. It's always been there, it's not something new. The whole "re-trial" factor is far from ideal for sure, but let's face it, you need it to be a de novo process, otherwise local tribunals really could make it "appeal-proof".

It's a drag, but it is what it is. You just have to trust that it's an impartial hearing and deal with it

 

[andrewb]

It's just ridiculous isn't it. The AFL fraternity's and Essendon's reaction to this is that of a spoilt brat not used to not getting his own way.

The rules are the rules. Everyone knows them, and always have.

Why these whinge sessions like this one from Gordon are given any credence at all is beyond me.

I have only been made aware of the nature of the appeal and I believe the process is farcical.

 

[Proper Gander]

I agree with Andrewb, the process is a farce at a lot of levels and that is what is being discussed.

But the players seem ok and they have your sympathy so all is good.

Oh stop being silly Telsa. The CAS process is in essence draconian, and comparable to double-jeopardy and AndrewB is totally within his rights to feel it is farcical. That's fine. I don't as such disagree with any of that. But farce or not, it's not new. AFL are a WADA sport - like lots of others, so presumably have been aware of the potential for decisions regarding their athletes to be removed from AFL jurisdiction and heard again. Like decisions about cyclists, or Chinese swimmers, or marathon runners or whatever. The critics of the system probably needed to voice concerns super loud before the EFC saga.

 

[Proper Gander]

Oh stop being silly Telsa. The CAS process is in essence draconian, and comparable to double-jeopardy and AndrewB is totally within his rights to feel it is farcical. That's fine. I don't as such disagree with any of that. But farce or not, it's not new. AFL are a WADA sport - like lots of others, so presumably have been aware of the potential for decisions regarding their athletes to be removed from AFL jurisdiction and heard again. Like decisions about cyclists, or Chinese swimmers, or marathon runners or whatever. The critics of the system probably needed to voice concerns super loud before the EFC saga.

Posted this before seeing Uppercuts post above. I could have saved myself the trouble.

What he said

 

[Donakebab]

Instead these defence lawyers believe it's ethical to down grade murder to manslaughter on basis of I was so drug stuffed I didn't think the gun was loaded.

The first rule of gun safety is assume the gun is loaded. So this excuse should not be a defence and the law has no idea.

Except Gordon isn't a defence lawyer genius. If you actually knew his case history he has a pretty ethical litigation background.

 

[peppy la pew]

Lol van Peebles decides what is ripe for discussion and what is not. This topic is far more important than hird nodding his head on 360 the other night and only now we are beginning to see the detail of how it is playing out.

Nonsense, he is merely pointing out that this is indeed the end game. Both parties understood perfectly that we could end up at CAS.

Why start pissing and moaning about it now, you were all too busy celebrating like it's 1999 after the tribunal delivered it's verdict.

Now the pendulum has swung it's suddenly a flawed process, and the old boy's fraternity might not get the desired outcome.

Jumping up and down about fairness of the system is laughable, considering the charges your club and its players face.

The answer is quite simple

1) Don't try to get ahead of the pack by doping

2) Sign off from WADA and go wild west.

Hearing all this public resentment from players, presidents and ( for want of a better word ) commentators is just sour grapes.

edit: Bloody well said Lance Uppercut

 

[Akka76]

It's mud throwing season!

In the last 24 hours:

Petrie
B Taylor
Gordon

Surely Kochie is next

Boys club has gathered and on the attack.

******* disgrace the lot of them.

Spot on, the PR campaign is in full swing