Mega Thread Thymosin Discussion - Update -AFL 21/8 - Bombers officially charged with Thymosin beta issues

[Lance Uppercut]

... and that Hird was incompetant in his lack of oversight, which is one of two arguments many had put to this board over previous months (he was either complicit or incomprtant).

The fact that your players were exposed to experimental substances, without sufficient record keeping, and that nobody at Essendon seems to care about any potential health implications is definately a black mark against the club. The sole aim of a majority of supporters seems to have been to "save Hird", to the detriment of anyone and anything else.

see, I don't think the lack of oversight is news, and I also don't believe you can attribute the way the club feels about their players from their media posture. That makes no sense, which I think you'd agree with realistically

 

[Baldur]

Which makes it even more interesting.

If a club gets suspended if 2 or more players are suspended for drug breaches, BUT you can't determine which 2 players are to get suspended...... what happens then?

Damned if I know.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

So what's the new information in this article?

The only new info I can glean from it is that Hird genuinely wanted to stay within WADA guidelines. The rest is concerning certainly, but going over old ground.

So where are we at? Interim report handed down, ASADA now investigating NRL and not AFL, and no infractions. As per ADADA regulations:



So presumably, despite this salacious material everyone is fapping over, ASADA presumably haven't decided there is a "possible ADRV".

I certainly don't discount that can come, and WADA have clearly said they can take their time, but my question is, when? What changes? The investigation has ceased.

Just like yesterday, the only realistic chaos ball is Dank rolling over, which I don't see, do you?

So, despite the cyber-histeria, what do people see as bring the trigger for infractions?

Agree - there really isn't anything new here. It just shifts the view towards play infractions where the interim report thing had many believing it would be club only.

For ASADA to do a thorough report they need Dank.

Right now he's probably being blamed for everything from injuries and miscommunication right through to third world hunger and Nigerian email fraud.

So it makes sense that they will hold something back until they can enforce Dank's contribution, which would be valuable (phone records at least if they don't have them) and at $5100 per day it will be interesting to see where it ends up.

Considering his australian career is pretty much over I would expect him to leave the country, which would probably relieve him of the daily fine incursion.

 

[QuietB]

Yeah a fine which your president could pay with the loose change in his car so you can go on like nothing happened, won't be getting off that likely.
Try a fine that is to come out of your salary cap and thats only a start. The club is going to cop a big punishment, not just a pissy little fine.

That is the best suggestion for a fine I have heard - straight deduction from their salary cap. Not sure it will fly with AFLPA but it would certainly hit the mark as a punishment.

 

[FuManchu]

Damned if I know.

Like Yosemite Sam used to say

"I don't knows what yas did, but I knows that yas did it"

 

[Lance Uppercut]

And if they don't follow the WADA rules then that puts them in the firing line against the government, ASADA and WADA.. But hey Bombers fans think they did nothing wrong and have a 'worlds against us" thing going on. Now why does this seem familiar?? Oh Melbourne Storm.. What is it with you Vic's??

Umm you bet its frustrating..

You're wrong. That is all. WADA & ASADA disagree, otherwise they wouldn't be involved.

what do you think the AFL Anti Doping Code is mate?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

That is the best suggestion for a fine I have heard - straight deduction from their salary cap. Not sure it will fly with AFLPA but it would certainly hit the mark as a punishment.

Yeah, not possible under the CBA.

 

[Mofra]

see, I don't think the lack of oversight is news, and I also don't believe you can attribute the way the club feels about their players from their media posture. That makes no sense, which I think you'd agree with realistically

... the lack of oversight has been denied constantly by most Essendon supporters since 5 February.
It was obvious, but by no means acknowledged

 

[Tiger71]

I'm of the belief that the AFL also have limitations on IV use etc etc, which aren't necessarily covered in the WADA code

100% agree. Hence the self regulate part. Typical AD. He wanted to set us apart from other sports so added another layer of rules - ie IV use being banned in certain quantities that's exclusive to us. He did that to IMO boost his own self importance BUT now its a cross that we have to carry. By doing so and making it law, WADA will make sure we honor what we have agreed too.

So really troubling times now for the Bombers. I trust the two jurno's in the age, when they write a story i take note. They have the runs on the board that highlights the divide between there work compared to Robbo and Wheatley ( like seriously, robbo is just barely a jurno. He is more opinion piece orientated. Hell is work is comparable to a dear jane collum.).

On record, I dont want the Essendon players banned. IMO they trusted there leaders but I fear they have been let down badly

 

[Colonial]

what do you think the AFL Anti Doping Code is mate?

If it follows WADA then they follow WADA rules, which are what was stated above.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Either way, they still have to abide by whatever breaches have occurred of the WADA code. Whatever name they want to sanction under is irrelevant.

the WADA code as it is applied in AFL, which is called?.....

 

[QuietB]

Agree - there really isn't anything new here. It just shifts the view towards play infractions where the interim report thing had many believing it would be club only.

For ASADA to do a thorough report they need Dank.

Right now he's probably being blamed for everything from injuries and miscommunication right through to third world hunger and Nigerian email fraud.

So it makes sense that they will hold something back until they can enforce Dank's contribution, which would be valuable (phone records at least if they don't have them) and at $5100 per day it will be interesting to see where it ends up.

Considering his australian career is pretty much over I would expect him to leave the country, which would probably relieve him of the daily fine incursion.

I disagree. Assuming that it is confirmed in the report that Thymosin Beta 4 was used that is massive. It has already been largely reported but it is a massive development that it is specifically confirmed in the report and 11 players have admitted to receiving it.

Essendon have been bleating on about where is the proof for this whole thing. Well it has been reported that that proof is in writing in the ASADA interim report.

It confirms 100% that there were doping violations at Essendon. That is a huge development.

 

[BF Tiger]

That is the best suggestion for a fine I have heard - straight deduction from their salary cap. Not sure it will fly with AFLPA but it would certainly hit the mark as a punishment.

I'm sure the playing list would all find jobs at Toll to make up the shortfall.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Keep you head in the sand, it seems to be working for you.

Seriously, the AFL has signed up to the WADA code with zero caveats or restrictions. The WADA code is the foundation of the AFL Anti doping code.. The AFL has self regulating powers to manage there drug code, however, they have agreed when they signed up that WADA has to approve of any action the AFL takes pertaining to the drug code.

its in black and white, if only you lifted your head from that hole in the ground

the irony.

You're right, the AFL have signed up to the WADA code. What do you reckon the document that contains that agreement by WADA and the AFL is called?

 

[FuManchu]

the WADA code as it is applied in AFL, which is called?.....

The big stick pertaining to naughties

 

[Sidebottom2Beams]

see, I don't think the lack of oversight is news, and I also don't believe you can attribute the way the club feels about their players from their media posture. That makes no sense, which I think you'd agree with realistically

Well the AFLPA are worried.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bomber-report-rifts-20130806-2rdjy.html#ixzz2bEasq7VN

Finnis remained hopeful infraction notices would not be delivered to Essendon's past or present players who took part in the drugs program of 2012, but pointed to other serious issues the AFLPA was determined to examine.
''Regardless of whether or not players receive infraction notices as a result of the investigation we have a very keen interest in the content of the report,'' Finnis said.
''There are other serious questions at stake here regarding potential breaches of contractual legal and occupational health and safety obligations to the players, which is something the club will try not to include in the broad parameters of what this investigation is all about.''
Of those Essendon staff still at the club, the roles played by Hird, football operations boss Danny Corcoran and club doctor Bruce Reid are understood to have been closely scrutinised by the joint investigation, which was launched after the club reported itself to the AFL and ASADA in February.

Fairfax Media understands negotiations between the AFLPA and Essendon on Monday were at flashpoint, with the players' union deeply concerned the club was attempting to suppress the report. The prevailing view, denied by Essendon, was that the club was working in the belief that should its players escape punishment there was no need for the document to be tabled at all.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bomber-report-rifts-20130806-2rdjy.html#ixzz2bEasq7VN

 

[Lance Uppercut]

So? Just becouse there is no requirement does not mean it is not done. It would be good practice even if not required. I still reserve my judgement until things before clearer.

I have no issue with that Baldur - I'm not saying we're in the clear nyah nyah nyah. I'm asking the very reasonable question of, if the interim report with the information about alleged use of b4 confirmed by strong circumstantial evidence isn't a "possible ADVR" then at what point does it click over into being a possible breach, given the investigation has ceased

 

[DR Tipple]

They did up here with regards to the Sharks, though it was in small print (News ltd are a league owner after all).

no mention in the press down here that i have seen

 

[Lance Uppercut]

... the lack of oversight has been denied constantly by most Essendon supporters since 5 February.
It was obvious, but by no means acknowledged

you think?

Maybe some supporters I guess.

I would have thought, and have made clear, that the governance issues and lack of oversight has been appalling. No two ways about it

 

[RICHOLEGEND12]

Can you imagine if Matthew knights was still the coach? There would be a lynch mob down at windy hill. That Richmond **** has poisoned our players!

 

[neutralguy]

No he wouldn't. You must know some pretty unhinged fathers.

You think a Father would be "unhinged" for not making noise about his Son being injected with chemicals that are not approved for humans? You would be far closer to being unhinged if that is your belief.
Would you honestly not be demanding the careers be over, at a minimum of all of those people involved in administering potentially harmful substances to your child?

 

[RegHickeyStand]

God this is frustrating.

You're wrong. That is all. AFL Anti Doping Code is the only relevant document here

Does ASADA come under the AFL Anti Doping Code?

 

[FuManchu]

I have no issue with that Baldur - I'm not saying we're in the clear nyah nyah nyah. I'm asking the very reasonable question of, if the interim report with the information about alleged use of b4 confirmed by strong circumstantial evidence isn't a "possible ADVR" then at what point does it click over into being a possible breach, given the investigation has ceased

The WADA code would determine what weight of evidence is needed to constitute a breach.

 

[neutralguy]

I wonder if this is a reason behind not having a league rep side verses Ireland? instead the Aboriginal All Stars? I gotta feeling the AFL will rip up the WADA code.

They can't afford to rip up the code, without being WADA compliant they get no Federal funding, why punish all the other clubs for one club?

 

[Valian]

Guess it depends who leak you believe.


The same old set of circumstances appear to have been followed. Something comes out and Essendon shouts from the rooftops that it clears them, which pisses off ASADA who in turn leak information which suggests the EFC are screwed.


And the HS and Age circumstances are not mutually exclusive. The interim report could say there were clear governance problems which lead to players at the club being administered two banned substances (AOD and TB4), but without naming which players these were as the investigation was still ongoing (Dank interview required to complete report). Once the report is completed then infringement notices may be given to players who have taken said substances.

So what about Dank, can he be forced to an interview, if not then why would he?