Time for Footscray FC to step out of Essendon FC shadow

[acker]

The clubs are separated by a suburban boundary - Essendon has been with the VFL since the start in 1897 us Footscray since 28 years later (1925)

For whatever reasons before 2012 because of head start, more affluent membership base, better coaching, better attitude, more ruthless or more money - Essendon has won more trophies than Footscray

So be it

Prior to World War 2 - the Superpower United Kingdom was stronger than post World War 2 Superpower United States

Soon India and China may soon be stronger than both of them

Current day Western Melbourne - there is a bit more growth and activity around Altona and Laverton compared to Moonie Ponds + Avondale Heights

Footscray FC - Western Bulldogs FC is smack bang in one of Australia's fastest growth corridors

Essendon FC is smack bang in one of Australia's grey rinse retirement zones

Like the UK dominates the world less than China

The Footscray FC - Western Bulldogs FC should be bold and start planning on dominating Australian Football more than the ageing Essendon FC

We need our club to look beyond being a Boutique Club and making plans to be a major player

Too many years this club has had small dreams and stuffed up making even mediocre soft performance targets

Yes it may be scary - but the time has come for our Board of Directors and Administration to set some challenging targets - we are 23 years past 1989 and need to get our thinking out of Survival mode into Achievement mode.

Perhaps Smorgo + Garlick can make that transition - perhaps they can't

But I think our club has to take a leap forward - staying put will end in slow death

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Interesting post Aker. I think for one the reason Essendon grew to become so big, was because of so many disenchanted Footscray supporters getting lured away during the 70s and 80s when Essendon dominated along with Hawthorn. The only way we will compete is if we start winning Premierships - all the research says one thing and one thing only, new supporters are attracted to winners.

 

[Chicago1]

Will never happen in my lifetime, but I'm old, so go for it!

 

[_Mike_]

On field success is what generates more membership and sponsor revenue. Until the club gets back to that point again, we'll be in limbo.

 

[Dogs54]

On field success is what generates more membership and sponsor revenue. Until the club gets back to that point again, we'll be in limbo.

There is no doubt that winning football equates to increased membership but didn't Sheedy in the 90's embark upon a program to attract females which proved to be very successful and significantly increased their membership base. Furthermore the Mum's have raised their children and also aligned them with Essendon.

As Acker rightfully says we need to do something different to increase our membership but all clubs have this goal and perhaps ideas from left field are worth greater consideration.

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

Acting like a powerhouse means spending lots of money we don't have. We could do that for a year or 3 but would fold very shortly after that. The club has identified the growth corridor and have tried to align the club to it with their last membership campaign - The Western Front (imagery of the Westgate). I can't think of anything else they could possibly do to change our fortunes.

 

[acker]

Interesting post Aker. I think for one the reason Essendon grew to become so big, was because of so many disenchanted Footscray supporters getting lured away during the 70s and 80s when Essendon dominated along with Hawthorn. The only way we will compete is if we start winning Premierships - all the research says one thing and one thing only, new supporters are attracted to winners.

Perhaps the 70's 80's 90's Essendon FC may be like the 40's 50's 60's Melbourne FC what comes around comes around

I had a bit of Tequila in me when I wrote the post and am still a bit heated up about Essendon FC Crameri only being suspended for 2 weeks for giving our guy Addison a broken jaw which keeps him out for 4 weeks

I wonder if Essendon would have been so polite if Addison had have given Crameri the broken jaw ?

I'm sick of our club keeping a lid on things and setting low expectations - I want our leaders - players, coaching and administering the club to start being bold and set our targets a bit higher.

 

[_Mike_]

There is no doubt that winning football equates to increased membership but didn't Sheedy in the 90's embark upon a program to attract females which proved to be very successful and significantly increased their membership base. Furthermore the Mum's have raised their children and also aligned them with Essendon.

As Acker rightfully says we need to do something different to increase our membership but all clubs have this goal and perhaps ideas from left field are worth greater consideration.

In response to Sheedy's program, he had coached them to back to back flags in 84 & 85, so he had proved that he could coach and develop a winning formula.

Once we have that success behind us, it should be easier to drum up sponsorship dollars and a business case to improve the perception and membership base of the club. Im all for new ideas, but with every idea you need a foundation behind it. A successful busines grows on previous success. We have to reach that point first before expanding, people will look at our history and ask, what are you going to provide for my dollar that I cant get from another club that has shown on field success.

Im not one to favour shooting down any one's ideas as each will have its own merits and flaws, but progression is logical and for the WB to tap into a supporter base and expand its boundaries you have to go back to fundamentals.

 

[Olde 54]

I think this "western growth corridor" is a bit of a furphy as far as the Dogs are concerned.

I reckon that the AFL supporter demographic for this area is going to be similar to any of the other growth corridors - Craigieburn, Pakenham, Whittlesea etc., irrespective of the fact that we are closest to it. Collingwood and Essendon supporters will dominate and then we'd come in somewhere near the bottom.

My main concern is the membership "churn" rate each year. Roughly 5k members down this year on last season, equates to about 15%(??) down. This is what is killing us.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

We need to get our timing right, whenever we are in premiership contention there is always a bloody superteam around at the time. If it wasn't Geelong it was St Kilda although they just couldn't clinch the premiership.
Look at the game at the moment, no one is a superteam - Collingwood play at the G or the time which gives them an unfair advantage, but Carlton smacked them. Essendon got beaten by lowly Melbourne. Sydney got beaten by Richmond, and Hawthorn are just flat track bullies, bash up the smaller teams but can't clinch the big games. Imagine if we were in our 2009 form, we would be in with a real show

 

[Barkly St End]

Interesting and provocative OP.

In a sense, our re-branding in 1997 was all about doing precisely what this OP is suggesting.

It's intesting that other bigger, wealthier clubs have also tried to cash in on this growth by planting more pokies machines in these growing suburbs.

I'm not saying we should have done the same, but there is a question of equity and fairness as to whether already cashed up clubs should be planting these machines on our turf - perhaps we should have got local and state governments involved and stopped it?

Has the club grown since 1996? The question is yes, but whether it's sufficient, only time will tell.

Supporters don't like us selling games interstate, and yet we've had some ordinary crowds this year, most probably to be replicated next year.

Management has to think outside the box, we have to be innovative, and most probably, we will have to do some things that our existing supporters don't approve of.

Now that North has its games in Hobart, likely to increase in number, why don't we explore the Ballarat option, afterall, isn't Ballarat, and everything between us and them along the Western Highway our natural catchment area?

What about playing all our home games against Port and the Crows at Ballarat?

Not radical enough?

What about a partnership with Central Districts, the most successful SANFL club of the past decade, and playing home games against Port and Adelaide at Footy Park, and selling two game memberships to Cental Districts supporters.

I won't be popular for suggesting these things - but we can't keep playing games at Etihad in front of 16k to 18k crowds, when we could attract double that in Adelaide.

 

[Unnamed1]

Goes to show the catholics (Essendon) were better breeders than the protestants (Dogs)!

 

[mackem]

While I like the idea of us playing the interstate teams at Ballarat I don't think the Mafia(AFL) will let us.

 

[j0rdy1]

When does the deal with Etihad finish up? Doesn't Etihad need to have a certain amounts of games and seeing as it is our home ground we give it alot of games. I wouldn't mind seeing us play Port, Freo and the expansion teams in Ballarat. I would rather the club be split betwen Melbourne and Ballarat then no club at all or getting ripped off by Etihad.

Anybody know the member numbers out of Tasmania for North?

 

[Barkly St End]

When does the deal with Etihad finish up? Doesn't Etihad need to have a certain amounts of games and seeing as it is our home ground we give it alot of games. I wouldn't mind seeing us play Port, Freo and the expansion teams in Ballarat. I would rather the club be split betwen Melbourne and Ballarat then no club at all or getting ripped off by Etihad.

Anybody know the member numbers out of Tasmania for North?

Not sure about our agreement specifically, but I know the AFL takes full control of Etihad in 2025, although there has been talk of the AFL buying out the rights earlier.

You'd think that at this point (when the AFL controls Etihad), they'd be in a pretty good position to assist both North and us in making a buck out of game day.

In fact, the whole Etihad situation ensures that North and the dogs have to survive and play at least 7 games each there per season.

Add home games for the bombers (about 9), the Saints, and about half of Carlton's home games, and you're up around the 40 mark that the AFL need to play there as a minimum (not counting finals).

 

[Snake Livermore]

Does anybody with a clue know how much it would cost to turn Whitten Oval into a functional 25K capacity stadium that we could host a large majority of our home games at every year?

I know it won't be cheap, or easy, but I believe it is our only hope. You can't expect to get a lions share of supporters from a region without having a tangible link. A regional name (Western?) doesn't cut it, and nobody goes to training. I know they do lots of school visits in the region, but that's not enough. With a stadium in close proximity it could become an accessible, safe and enjoyable family night out for people in the Western suburbs.

Then there are all the other benefits of flogging games to North/Melbourne and not paying for games at Etihad. I dunno. Will it require a Russian billionaire? Or could we get there with some very affluent supporters chucking in a few mil each?

 

[Barkly St End]

Does anybody with a clue know how much it would cost to turn Whitten Oval into a functional 25K capacity stadium that we could host a large majority of our home games at every year?

I'd say it's absolutely impossible on pretty much every level imaginable: money; local council planning; AFL approval; and even return on investment. Not to mention that geographically, the WO is almost inner city these days.

GWS's upgrade of the showgrounds cost $60 mill, and that was basically a cosmetic upgrade - most of the stands already existed.

Gold Coast's upgrade of Carrara cost $120-130 million - that's your starting point for turning the WO into an AFL standard stadium - might even cost more than that - and the AFL only managed to wrangle that because the Gold Coast was going to bid for the Commonwealth games.

The other problem is that they've plonked a whole lot of other buildings around WO as community assets - so I honestly doubt it's the least bit feasible.

 

[j0rdy1]

Best bet is to move into the Ballarat market, bring all the interstate home games we already play to there. Play Freo, Port, Gold Coast, GWS there. Doing this we should be able to grab alot of supporters/members in Ballarat and surrounding areas that follow AFL but have no team or can't get to games. Would grab a fair few opposition supporters on the back of this too. West Coast, Adelaide, Sydney and Brisbane are bigger market interstate teams and I think we would be able to draw a big enough crowd to make it worth while playing them at Etihad, especially if we are there abouts come finals.

We have to do something like this to survive, too many teams in Melbourne and the big clubs are getting bigger. And its just easier for no club supporters or new followers of AFL to hop on the bandwagon of big clubs.

Does anyone know the membership numbers out of Tassie for North?

 

[skooshtamart]

I feel it is time for change at the top, I am not critical of the current leadership, only that it is time for change. I believe the current leaders have had a positive impact on the clubs fortunes, and I am grateful for their impact and effort.

However I personally would like a leadership team that will voice the concerns of this constituent, and challenge the inequities of AFL policy. while most of the arguments are routinely discussed, the following issue is never raised.

I think our club should be eligible for a higher Salary cap, its harder attracting players to a club that does not get an opportunity to play blockbuster games. On the back of blockbuster games I have no doubt that both Collingwood and Essendon leverage Anzac /Carlton Games in contract negotiations, and are able to keep players at pay rates below the open market price. I would think most players would forgo upto 50k per year just for that opportunity. Lets face it players want to play in front of a big crowd. Games on public holidays only help the powerhouse clubs increase the gap.

As a protest I think all the other clubs should run family days on this day during the telecast to impact the TV ratings, personally I never watch ANZAC games or any other AFL promoted bogus draw, blockbuster game.

What would happen if you linked the salary cap to your membership numbers. High membership lower cap, low membership higher cap, (similar to GWS,GC) meaning a low membership would give a club a better chance of retaining and attracting players which would eventually have a positive impact on the membership base as marquee players emerge at lower clubs, rather than be poached by the AFL promoted powerhouse clubs.


Back on leadership, I believe we need leaders who are prepared to take it up to the AFL, and challenge them. Open up the window and yell out to the supporters, "I am as mad as hell & we are not going to take it anymore". Eddie did it, Kennett did it, now look at their memberships. Supporters will follow someone with a bone to pick/ an axe to grind. We need to start picking up our axe.

 

[dogwatch]

Some stimulating ideas there, skooshta. I like the idea of an increased salary cap for those who don't get blockbusters. The problem is we'd need an extra money allocation to be able to pay the full 100%.

You ask what would happen if the cap was linked (inversely) to memberships. My guess is the clubs would do everything to pretend their numbers were lower than they are. Anyway I doubt such a move would ever get up but it might focus people's attention on the huge leg-up that certain clubs get from the AFL.

I tend to agree that a change in leadership soon would be good but I'm happy for Smorgon to see out his current term. He's been great for our club and won't want another term anyway.

 

[skooshtamart]

As far as I am concerned until you get the powerhouse clubs saying they don't want scheduled blockbusters, instead they will take the proposed salary cap concessions and the handouts, the advantages to those clubs is far superior.

 

[snags]

Goes to show the catholics (Essendon) were better breeders than the protestants (Dogs)!

Hate to bring up old sectarian issues..but Essendon Catholic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please..... They were a freemason club who never had a Mick play for them till the early 50's..fact!
Footscray on the other hand were not sectarian based but rather trade union..No ticket no start.
Sheedy's mother refused to follow Essendon till her last breath because of their traditional links to the goat riding Masons, the Catholic clubs were Collingwood Norffff and Richmond.
As an aside to the issue, rather than days gone by kids do buck the trend of their parents traditional support, you need two things to lift your base...success and Marquis player.
Just have a look around any oz kick or local footy club training,how many Buddy Franklin or Geelong jumpers do you see?

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Hate to bring up old sectarian issues..but Essendon Catholic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please..... They were a freemason club who never had a Mick play for them till the early 50's..fact!
Footscray on the other hand were not sectarian based but rather trade union..No ticket no start.
Sheedy's mother refused to follow Essendon till her last breath because of their traditional links to the goat riding Masons, the Catholic clubs were Collingwood Norffff and Richmond.
As an aside to the issue, rather than days gone by kids do buck the trend of their parents traditional support, you need two things to lift your base...success and Marquis player.
Just have a look around any oz kick or local footy club training,how many Buddy Franklin or Geelong jumpers do you see?

I agree Snags, if we snag a marque player in this draft, we will lift our profile, even Johno in his peak years of 2006 - 2009 lifted our profile, he was such a likeable, talented player that played well above his height.

 

[Tallsies]

The clubs are separated by a suburban boundary - Essendon has been with the VFL since the start in 1897 us Footscray since 28 years later (1925)

For whatever reasons before 2012 because of head start, more affluent membership base, better coaching, better attitude, more ruthless or more money - Essendon has won more trophies than Footscray

So be it

Prior to World War 2 - the Superpower United Kingdom was stronger than post World War 2 Superpower United States

Soon India and China may soon be stronger than both of them

Current day Western Melbourne - there is a bit more growth and activity around Altona and Laverton compared to Moonie Ponds + Avondale Heights

Footscray FC - Western Bulldogs FC is smack bang in one of Australia's fastest growth corridors

Essendon FC is smack bang in one of Australia's grey rinse retirement zones

Like the UK dominates the world less than China

The Footscray FC - Western Bulldogs FC should be bold and start planning on dominating Australian Football more than the ageing Essendon FC

We need our club to look beyond being a Boutique Club and making plans to be a major player

Too many years this club has had small dreams and stuffed up making even mediocre soft performance targets

Yes it may be scary - but the time has come for our Board of Directors and Administration to set some challenging targets - we are 23 years past 1989 and need to get our thinking out of Survival mode into Achievement mode.

Perhaps Smorgo + Garlick can make that transition - perhaps they can't

But I think our club has to take a leap forward - staying put will end in slow death

The Western Bulldogs will never compete with Essendon or any of the other power clubs of the competition. If you look at any sporting competition around the world there are the clubs that have a tradition of winning and therefore the support and the dollars follow, look at Man Utd, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Boston Celtics, LA Lakers. All these clubs have a rich history built on success and winning, it's the same with ESS, Coll, Carl, Haw, you walk through the front doors and you see excellence all around you, you walk through the bulldogs doors and you see a trophy cabinet with cobwebs in it. The sad fact is the Western Bulldogs will never be a power in their current position, Tasmania Bulldogs in my opinion is a viable avenue to pursue.

 

[acker]

The Western Bulldogs will never compete with Essendon or any of the other power clubs of the competition. If you look at any sporting competition around the world there are the clubs that have a tradition of winning and therefore the support and the dollars follow, look at Man Utd, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Boston Celtics, LA Lakers. All these clubs have a rich history built on success and winning, it's the same with ESS, Coll, Carl, Haw, you walk through the front doors and you see excellence all around you, you walk through the bulldogs doors and you see a trophy cabinet with cobwebs in it. The sad fact is the Western Bulldogs will never be a power in their current position, Tasmania Bulldogs in my opinion is a viable avenue to pursue.

Every great club has to start somewhere - why should we move or just be the current power clubs Bi###es

I think the my club is better than that