Time to go back to one ruck?

[Quicky]

I agree with your sentiment Old Spice but I think while Wood has been so underwhelming in his performances it is difficult to gift him games. I definitely think he needs to be persisted with and when he returns to form in the 2's he should be brought back in. But for the moment I feel he has been offering so little that it is hard to justify his spot.

 

[Old Spice]

I don't agree he's been underwhelming across all his games, but if they give Leroy 2nd fiddle in the ruck, we may be revisiting this question post the Sydney game.

 

[shawthing09]

I don't know why Jolly can't ruck a larger amount of time. He used to ruck a majority of game time at Sydney similar to the way Jamar did for Melbourne. Therefore Leroy as a back up ruck isn't as much of an issue. We are selecting him as a stop gap type player, foward, back, bench and ruck where ever he is needed. As opposed to playing a 2nd ruck who isn't going to get much game time nor do much.

My issue with Wood is not in his skills it's in the work rate and I just don't think he is going to get the picture if he continually getting games he hasn't earned. Dawes rucked last year and looked handy too, I don't know enough about the medical side of things but I am confident (at least I hope) the club wouldn't have played him in this role unless they were confident there was no greater risk to him, so I can't see why it can't be done again this year.

 

[Thommo 42]

The thing is he really hasn't had the opportunity to become number one. He was 4th in line at Brisbane, then he came to Pies where Josh played the lion's share of games and now has been pushed back by Jolly's inclusion.

So far as comparisons with his peers go, look at the ruck selections from 2004-2007 and you'll see he's hardly back in the pack.

2004 John Meeson, Adam Pattison, Cain Ackland, Fabian Deluca, Ivan Maric, Simon Taylor, Chris Bryan and of course Cameron Wood.

2005 Mitch Clark, Max Bailey, Trent West, Robert Warnock

2006 Leuenberger, Hampson, Goldstein, Jesse White

2007 Matthew Kruezer, Matthew Lobbe, Kepler Bradley

I'd only place 4 of them in front of Wood, 3 on par and the rest behind Wood.

Probably instructive to look at the improvement of 2004 draftee Maric this year.

Trent West and Goldstein are way better than Wood,they just come from better ruck divisions that are hard to crack

 

[shawthing09]

Trent West and Goldstein are way better than Wood,they just come from better ruck divisions that are hard to crack

I'd say Bailey in limited games has shown a level above Wood, he just can't ever get on the park. It sound's stupid considering he has only really had one game at AFL level in the past 3 or so years but in the odd occasions he has been fit and played VFL he has looked dominate to a level Wood has not. Unfortunately for Bailey and the Hawks he then does a knee. For that matter Renouf for Hawthorn is missing from the 06 ruck draftees.

I am still hopeful Wood will step up to the plate but for at least the next month or so I think it is worth sitting both Fraser and Wood out until one is able to show through the VFL that they are ready to step up. If it's an injury thing from Fraser rest him completely for the next couple of weeks.

 

[Old Spice]

Trent West and Goldstein are way better than Wood,they just come from better ruck divisions that are hard to crack

Goldstein's better than Wood, that's good to know since Wood broke even with him this year.

 

[mdc]

Goldstein's better than Wood, that's good to know since Wood broke even with him this year.

I'd have Goldstein 3rd on that entire list. He's an exellent talent.

Don't agree with Trent West though, and Hampson is a spazthlete of the highest order.

 

[The Panther]

Josh is shot physically & mentally. I hope they play 1 ruckman/Jolly & a relief option in Dawes. He is 194cm, Ryder for example is listed at 196cm.

Prior to taking up football in year 10, Dawes represented Victoria in BB as a centre at a junior level. You would assume he has a good VL.

 

[doppleganger]

The thing is he really hasn't had the opportunity to become number one.

What crap.....he has been around for 6 years.....if he was good enough he would be our number 1 ruck.

Josh is constantly injured, and Wood has had plenty of opportunity but has often been over looked in preference of blokes like Bryan, L.Brown or Dawes.

He reminds me, and compares with G.Richards.

A bloke forever talked up as a great white hope in the ruck, but never good enough to make it.

http://finalsiren.com/PlayerCompare.asp?SeasonID=&SelectedPlayers=1556,1354,&Compare=Go

• 
  
  1. -Player-
     ​
     M Dis Avg Mar Avg HO Avg Tak Avg FF FA Avg
     
  2. C.Wood
     ​
     46 430 9.3 166 3.6 566 12.3 79 1.7 35 33 53.7
  3. Richards
     ​
     39 316 8.1 127 3.3 491 12.6 52 1.3 29 23 48

​

He was 4th in line at Brisbane, then he came to Pies where Josh played the lion's share of games and now has been pushed back by Jolly's inclusion.

Clark and Leuy went past him when they were rookies....what does that say about him?

He couldn't push Josh, a tall HFF according to most on this site, out of the ruck.

Gee, talk about making excuses for the bloke.

2004 John Meeson, Adam Pattison, Cain Ackland, Fabian Deluca, Ivan Maric, Simon Taylor, Chris Bryan and of course Cameron Wood.

The players from 2004, by now most have either been written off a spuds, or have begun to show something.

Yet we are supposed to just continually gift Wood games in the hope he comes good? For fecks sake by your 6th season of footy you need to be demanding games.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Clark and Leuy went past him when they were rookies....what does that say about him?

Thank you, this point!

Wood is a real worry for mine & gifting him games just goes against the grain.

I get the feeling (& it's only a feeling) that Wood will be ok but it won't be until he's 26 odd.

Right now he's not up to it.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I think Wood will either start playing really well in a couple of seasons' time, and we'll then hear that he'd decided to knuckle down and start taking his preparation and training seriously... or he'll fall by the wayside after failing to become a #1 ruck at any AFL club. It's really up to him, IMHO, as he has the physical tools to make it, and he has the skills at his disposal.

 

[kevind]

Wood is a prime example of what has caused the demise of Collingwood as a power in the last 30 years.

Recruiting.

If you recruit ruckmen with no physical presence, you are asking for trouble.

We consistently recruit players with deficiencies in the arrogant belief that we can turn them into players. If a player lacks physical presence, kicking or marking ability for example, they are key areas that are almost impossible to improve to any significant degree.

We are like the punter who goes to the track to back the 100-1 long shot. Sure, occassionaly, you may get one home, but there are far too many busts.

The Rucks on our list are a prime example. Jolly( good ruckman, but took us 15 years to get one), Fraser(no physical presence), Wood (no physical presence), Keefe( no physical presence and not good enough), McNamara( not a 100-1 shot ,but a 1000-1 shot).

Frankly, our list is at the crossroads. We have very little quality in the 2's. Maybe Blight, but after that the pickings are slim. We have not introduced any new players this year, because we have not had any good enough. Which perhaps makes us the only club not to do so???

And we have players like Rusling and Mcarthy who are forever injured and unlikely to ever make it at AFL level.

If we don't sneak a flag this year or next, by the Geelongs and StKildas dropping off their perch, it could be a long, long wait for the next one.

 

[Grumpy Bum]

Wood is a prime example of what has caused the demise of Collingwood as a power in the last 30 years.

Recruiting.

If you recruit ruckmen with no physical presence, you are asking for trouble.

We consistently recruit players with deficiencies in the arrogant belief that we can turn them into players. If a player lacks physical presence, kicking or marking ability for example, they are key areas that are almost impossible to improve to any significant degree.

We are like the punter who goes to the track to back the 100-1 long shot. Sure, occassionaly, you may get one home, but there are far too many busts.

The Rucks on our list are a prime example. Jolly( good ruckman, but took us 15 years to get one), Fraser(no physical presence), Wood (no physical presence), Keefe( no physical presence and not good enough), McNamara( not a 100-1 shot ,but a 1000-1 shot).

Frankly, our list is at the crossroads. We have very little quality in the 2's. Maybe Blight, but after that the pickings are slim. We have not introduced any new players this year, because we have not had any good enough. Which perhaps makes us the only club not to do so???

And we have players like Rusling and Mcarthy who are forever injured and unlikely to ever make it at AFL level.

If we don't sneak a flag this year or next, by the Geelongs and StKildas dropping off their perch, it could be a long, long wait for the next one.

I agree, except I think Wood can still blossom, but he needs a big dose of agro.

But there is nothing on the horizon coming up this year and that's an indictment on malthouse again.

 

[danielnajdek]

Wood is a prime example of what has caused the demise of Collingwood as a power in the last 30 years.

Recruiting.

If you recruit ruckmen with no physical presence, you are asking for trouble.

We consistently recruit players with deficiencies in the arrogant belief that we can turn them into players. If a player lacks physical presence, kicking or marking ability for example, they are key areas that are almost impossible to improve to any significant degree.

We are like the punter who goes to the track to back the 100-1 long shot. Sure, occassionaly, you may get one home, but there are far too many busts.

The Rucks on our list are a prime example. Jolly( good ruckman, but took us 15 years to get one), Fraser(no physical presence), Wood (no physical presence), Keefe( no physical presence and not good enough), McNamara( not a 100-1 shot ,but a 1000-1 shot).

Frankly, our list is at the crossroads. We have very little quality in the 2's. Maybe Blight, but after that the pickings are slim. We have not introduced any new players this year, because we have not had any good enough. Which perhaps makes us the only club not to do so???

And we have players like Rusling and Mcarthy who are forever injured and unlikely to ever make it at AFL level.

If we don't sneak a flag this year or next, by the Geelongs and StKildas dropping off their perch, it could be a long, long wait for the next one.

Got anything positive to say or are you just one of those people that just points out the negatives. So going by what your saying we should just pack our bags now and head to Arizona for a early Pre Season.

Yes I've been disappointed by our games against Melbourne(twice) and Brisbane(how the **** did we lose against that rubble?) especially. Lets just hope they come out firing against Sydney as they did early on in the year.

 

[Grumpy Bum]

Got anything positive to say or are you just one of those people that just points out the negatives. So going by what your saying we should just pack our bags now and head to Arizona for a early Pre Season.

Yes I've been disappointed by our games against Melbourne(twice) and Brisbane(how the **** did we lose against that rubble?) especially. Lets just hope they come out firing against Sydney as they did early on in the year.

Well, we aint going to win the flag this year, not much has changed structurally from last year. No up and comers have stood up. We still drop easy games that dominant teams don't drop. We are a long ways behind the very best, as we were last year. We get blown away in 1 qtr of football far too often to be a real contender. We will finish top 4 and wont play off. de ja vu

 

[danielnajdek]

I'd rather us be in the position we're in then 12 other teams. We're still in the top 4 and we should get back Bally,Johnson and Dids for the Sydney game. Hopefully Fraser gets dropped and Dawes comes in too pinch hit in the ruck.

I'm just saying don't write off the year yet. We might do the opposite of what we did last year where we done well in the middle of the year then completely dropped off.We might drop a bit off in the middle of the season and hit our peak at the end of the season.

Heres hoping anyways.

Also our VFL are doing very well atm. I think they're fourth or fifth. We have guys who can fill gaps but it's alot harder when you have to fill 4 massive gaps in one week.

 

[kevind]

Got anything positive to say or are you just one of those people that just points out the negatives. So going by what your saying we should just pack our bags now and head to Arizona for a early Pre Season.

Yes I've been disappointed by our games against Melbourne(twice) and Brisbane(how the **** did we lose against that rubble?) especially. Lets just hope they come out firing against Sydney as they did early on in the year.

I'm sure they will come out firing against Sydney and probably win, but as for winning the flag, we are well behind Geelong and StKilda.

We are a good side that is well coached to our limitations, but like every other year, there are always a few other sides better than us. If you are happy with that, fine. I am not. I want to see another Collingwood Premiership before I die, particularly given we have only won one in the last 50 years.

Overrating our list over the years has been a constant problem not only amongst supporters but also within the club itself.

I'm amazed Malthouse was not asked after the Geelong game whether we playing at our best could beat Geelong playing at their best. I suspect he would give the same answer as last year. And he would be right.

As I said before, to win the Premiership, we would need Geelong to drop off the level they are capable of atm. If that is being negative to you, fine. IMO it is just being realistic. Delusion is not a suit I am happy to wear.

 

[Dylz48]

I think it is to early to give up hope on wood look at Mark Jamar big men take time. However I also think there is no use in gifting him games let him earn them ATM his for doesn't warrant selection and neither does Fraser so I would say we have to go in with Jolly/Brown/Dawes combo however I doubt it will happen

 

[jerry springer]

<Bump>

haven't lost a game since we started to go it with Jolly and Brown

 

[Quicky]

Good bump.

I've been really happy with how our ruck combo has gone since we've been going with Jolly/Brown.

The extra game time allows Jolly to get into rythym during the game and his form has improved as a result.

Brown too has been great across HF especially in his overhead marking and linking work. Getting on the end of few doesn't hurt either. His ruck work has also been competitive although would get exposed against a good second ruck.

 

[jerry springer]

May I add, i think Jolly could use a rest if needed,next week would be perfect against the Blues.Fraser could play his 200th.win-win situation

 

[swan36]

great win by the team...the Brown/Jolly partnership is working very well with no need to change things up! Fraser will play his 200th when selected on form & need... but dont think it will be this season as jolly/brown are our winning formula for 2010

 

[The Royal Sampler]

L Brown has been fantastic as backup ruckman. Not only is he giving a genuine contest, and contributing around the ground, he's setting the standard for Josh and Cam to aspire to before they can think about getting back into the side.

In today's possession game, you can't afford to have a ruckman who can't hold a mark consistently and then be a liability at ground level. Brown allows us to retain possession more often than not, his hands have been outstanding these last few weeks.

 

[Optimax]

Kicking straight and tackling like an absolute demon too

And when he gets a hitout they generally go to advantage, hardly gets smashed in the center this year either