To eat or not to eat breakfast?

[Bazzar]

Theres one thing i still dont quite understand about ketosis you might be able to help with.

Today I'm in the middle of an intermittent fast. for convenience sake lets say my resting TDEE is 2400 calories. therefore I burn 100cal / hour resting. Last night, 8PM was my final meal. It's likely than after that meal I had totally filled my glycogen stores.

fast forward 16 hours later and I havent eaten anything so a good part of my energy consumption has come from glycogen. Lets say I've burnt up 1000 cals. 1600-1000 = whole body glycogen stores of remaining ~600cal.

I then did a combination of cardio and HIIT over the next few hours that by my estimation would've burnt about 1000 calories - still havent eaten. I have well and truly depleted all glycogen stores and are now burning primarily my body's fat reserves - I've been eating lowish carb for a year or so, and IFing for a few years so I'm pretty well fat adapted.

Why arent I now in ketosis? What is my brain living off?

Without knowing exactly where you are at and your ketone numbers it sounds straight forward, you are not yet in NK and you brain is using both glycogen and ketones.

You said "It's likely than after that meal I had totally filled my glycogen stores." so what did you eat to fill them? and if you are aiming for NK you dont need to do it anyway.

Also remember Protein is the hidden enemy of Ketosis, your fat has to be a bare minimum 75% of your macros. A good rule of thumb is 30g carb to start with, 1g per kg body weight of protein and the rest (75% or more)l fat. Above ground greens should fill you until you are full as a boot.

And as posted somewhere about Gaz carb loading for filling glycogen, remember he is Paleo not Keto.

 

[evo]

Also remember Protein is the hidden enemy of Ketosis, your fat has to be a bare minimum 75% of your macros. A good rule of thumb is 30g carb to start with, 1g per kg body weight of protein and the rest (75% or more)l fat. Above ground greens should fill you until you are full as a boot.
.

yeah, the trouble with that, that it is not optimal for muscle building which is my primary goal.

Anyway, I've found the answer to my questions. That guy Bigcox linked is great.

 

[Bazzar]

yeah, the trouble with that, that it is not optimal for muscle building which is my primary goal.

Anyway, I've found the answer to my questions. That guy Bigcox linked is great.

Remember weight lifters consume way to much protein that is needed by the body, its a myth (probably by supplement manufacturers) as 65% of protein isnt used and is converted to glucose. And if you want to go by the advice on that link (good link to) you will never be NK thats the trade off.

 

[Bazzar]

The casual reader must be wondering what all this NK (nutritional ketosis) is about and why so special. Well if you can think of every single diet known to man from raw vegan, paleo, mediterranean, lchf etc, Keto is the ONLY dietary pattern that will actually change how your brain, heart and body functions.

Ask anyone who is in NK to describe the feeling and its so incredlbly difficult (maybe a poet or wordsmith can) but the day in day out feeling is indescribable, the heightened brain awareness and crazy spring in your step is beyond words


Also I have been into fitness all my life (son of a pro boxer) and that includes lifting, but now days I just do some limited free weights, lots of body weight (TRX) and cardio, I am still very strong and muscular an their is NO WAY KNOWN does the restricted protein impact on my body, strength or muscularity. In my opinion the restricted protein for Keto (still good numbers 1-1.2g per KG) is more of an issue the further you get to elite in your sport.

 

[Big Cox 88]

The casual reader must be wondering what all this NK (nutritional ketosis) is about and why so special. Well if you can think of every single diet known to man from raw vegan, paleo, mediterranean, lchf etc, Keto is the ONLY dietary pattern that will actually change how your brain, heart and body functions.

Ask anyone who is in NK to describe the feeling and its so incredlbly difficult (maybe a poet or wordsmith can) but the day in day out feeling is indescribable, the heightened brain awareness and crazy spring in your step is beyond words


Also I have been into fitness all my life (son of a pro boxer) and that includes lifting, but now days I just do some limited free weights, lots of body weight (TRX) and cardio, I am still very strong and muscular an their is NO WAY KNOWN does the restricted protein impact on my body, strength or muscularity. In my opinion the restricted protein for Keto (still good numbers 1-1.2g per KG) is more of an issue the further you get to elite in your sport.

Keto has changed everything in my life upside down. Lethargic, overweight and constantly hungry converted to energetic bordering on euphoric, fit, muscular and never having a screaming hungry stomach. This all started at the start of this year. As mentioned in other threads, I lost 20kg in 5 months, now I am building muscle and maintaining. Blood profiles have improved yet I still get all the negative stuff from family and friend know it all's. I started with intermittent fasting but now that I am in maintenance mode I have breakfast to fit the extra calories in, besides there is nothing like a bacon and cheese omelette with heavy cream to start the day .

 

[Bazzar]

euphoric

This is a great word to describe the feeling of keto.

 

[ablett]

The casual reader must be wondering what all this NK (nutritional ketosis) is about and why so special. Well if you can think of every single diet known to man from raw vegan, paleo, mediterranean, lchf etc, Keto is the ONLY dietary pattern that will actually change how your brain, heart and body functions.

Ask anyone who is in NK to describe the feeling and its so incredlbly difficult (maybe a poet or wordsmith can) but the day in day out feeling is indescribable, the heightened brain awareness and crazy spring in your step is beyond words


Also I have been into fitness all my life (son of a pro boxer) and that includes lifting, but now days I just do some limited free weights, lots of body weight (TRX) and cardio, I am still very strong and muscular an their is NO WAY KNOWN does the restricted protein impact on my body, strength or muscularity. In my opinion the restricted protein for Keto (still good numbers 1-1.2g per KG) is more of an issue the further you get to elite in your sport.

Good post, you can chew down all the protein you want but it's what's getting utilised is the key factor.
So a bodybuilder can eat 300g of protein but if his gut flora is poor he may not utilise any more than a 3rd of it compared to someone with good gut flora may only ingest 100g of protein but utilise it all & put less strain on kidneys.
High protein consumption generally causes high urea levels.
Get your hormones in balance & your gut flora working efficient n you'll build more muscle than just relying on copious amounts meat n powders etc...

 

[ablett]

This is a great word to describe the feeling of keto.

Keto gives you a dietgasm!

 

[showdownhero]

You guys are making me feel guilty for eating too much protein

I might dial it back to ~100g a day and see how I feel :thumbu:

 

[Bazzar]

You guys are making me feel guilty for eating too much protein

I might dial it back to ~100g a day and see how I feel :thumbu:

Unfortunately their is no perfect world or dietary plan and their has to be give or take, and their is nothing wrong with protein but its the biggest cause of people failing to get into NK and average strong numbers.

PS, are you in keto or plan to?

 

[Nickos66]

You guys are making me feel guilty for eating too much protein

I might dial it back to ~100g a day and see how I feel :thumbu:

Don't feel bad, this is probably my downfall too - I'm only 70kg's and there's no way in hell i'd be able to get by consuming only 70g of meat per day!

 

[Bazzar]

Don't feel bad, this is probably my downfall too - I'm only 70kg's and there's no way in hell i'd be able to get by consuming only 70g of meat per day!

Roughly 220-260g of beef is 70g of protein. Itdepends on the type of meat and cut, as in turkey breast is heaps higher than pork loin chops, thats why i NEVER eat turkey.

 

[Nickos66]

Roughly 220-260g of beef is 70g of protein. (depends on the type of meat and cut)

Aaaahh of course! I keep forgetting that for all food types! ****

 

[Bazzar]

I have to eat less meat as i drink a big mug of bone broth everyday. Thats a big drawback for me (no perfect diet)

 

[showdownhero]

Unfortunately their is no perfect world or dietary plan and their has to be give or take, and their is nothing wrong with protein but its the biggest cause of people failing to get into NK and average strong numbers.

PS, are you in keto or plan to?

IFIK definitely fat adapted and have good weeks and bad weeks in terms of carb consumption but I also (intentionally) vary my carb intake depending on activity level.

 

[Bazzar]

The above post is really great and we never have to skip the breakfast, breakfast is the most important meal from all the three meals we take. I read the whole post and I really like the above post, it can having all points of taking the breakfast.

Can you give a few reasons why you have that opinion.

 

[raskolnikov]

The above post is really great and we never have to skip the breakfast, breakfast is the most important meal from all the three meals we take. I read the whole post and I really like the above post, it can having all points of taking the breakfast.

Are you a robot?

 

[Bazzar]

Nice discussion, I agreed. But I can't wait long at morning to eat breakfast.

Get into IF and that will change in the standard 21 days.

 

[kaitigers]

The main argument behind the “breakfast-is-the-most-important-meal-of-the-day” theory is based on the notion that because insulin sensitivity is higher in the morning, we should eat a big high carb breakfast to take full advantage of the opportunity to consume a large amount of energy without the risk of gaining weight. But there is at least one MAJOR problem with this theory – insulin sensitivity is higher NOT because of a particular time of the day based on when the sun comes up…Insulin sensitivity is higher after a minimum of eight hours of fasting and when your glycogen levels are depleted (kind of like when you wake up from eight hours of sleeping). In fact, extending that fasting period beyond eight hours (typically by skipping breakfast) increases insulin sensitivity even more – AKA Intermittent Fasting.

Insulin sensitivity via Intermittent Fasting is also an incredibly powerful strategy for burning fat and maintaining muscle mass while still feeling completely satisfied and energized.


Typically people simply wake up in fat burning mode! After fasting throughout the night, insulin sensitivity is high, which means fat and muscle cells react strongly to insulin and soak up sugar like sponges. Insulin transports raw materials to cells, but if more material flows in the cell than the cell needs, the cell stores it as triaglycerol (fat), glycogen, or essentially non-functional muscle tissue. Eating carbs for breakfast while insulin sensitivity is high and glycogen levels are still full from a late night dinner, basically tells fat cells to convert the excess carbs to fat and store it away. When insulin levels are too high, the body increases the efficiency of fat storage, but when insulin levels drop, the body’s fat burning abilities are totally revved up!9 By skipping breakfast, you can change your metabolism and hormone levels to tell your body whether to burn carbs or fat for energy.

Three other hormones that set your body into fat burning mode in the morning are cortisol, ghrelin, and growth hormone. For people with a normally functioning endocrine system, cortisol levels slowly increase throughout a night’s sleep and reach a daily high point by morning. Being a catabolic hormone, cortisol works to break down glycogen stores to release glucose, which means releasing fat from fat cells.10

There are two caveats to this magic cortisol fat burning mechanism though: 1) cortisol levels must NOT be chronically high (like when you’re really stressed out) because in that case cortisol can actually break down triglycerides into free fatty acids and cause the body to store more fat (lipolysis), and 2) this magic cortisol high point must not be interrupted by high insulin levels.11 So what does this spell? Wake up refreshed with cortisol at a natural high point and DON’T eat breakfast, especially not carbs, to keep insulin from interfering with your fat burning mode!

In terms of accelerating fat loss, you also have ghrelin and growth hormone on your side. If you ever wake up to a growling stomach, this is because the body releases ghrelin (the hunger hormone) throughout the night, and like cortisol, ghrelin levels also peak upon waking up. The cool thing is, this particular hungry feeling, is actually ghrelin triggering the release of growth hormone, which is a powerful fat burning and muscle building hormone. With the rise of growth hormone, the body releases fat to be burned as fuel instead of breaking down protein that could be used for muscle building. Studies show that growth hormone levels peak about two hours after waking IF this isn’t interfered with eating breakfast.

Breakfast is a necessity mate it gets you going for the day all athletes have breakfast

 

[ablett]

Breakfast is a necessity mate it gets you going for the day all athletes have breakfast

You've gotta allot to learn son & id advise to do some extensive research before making bold statements without some studies n evidence to back up your statements.

 

[Bazzar]

The only people who need breakfast are breakfast eaters.

 

[showdownhero]

The only people who need breakfast are breakfast eaters.

Didn't you read kaitigers post? all athletes eat breakfast. With that kind of double blind peer reviewed research he could get a job working for the National Heart Foundation.

 

[smasha]

Having breaky makes me poo better.Yes,I'm old.

 

[Brad Goodman]

Didn't you read kaitigers post? all athletes eat breakfast. With that kind of double blind peer reviewed research he could get a job working for the National Heart Foundation.

Bit rough on a 14 year old.

 

[Golden_6]

Trying to lose 3 or 4kg and I don't think my current egg and bacon sandwich or corn flakes with milk is going to cut it anymore. Any ideas on some easy, tasty and non-fuss breakfast ideas that will fill me up and assist with weight loss?