Current Tobacco Wars

[TheEscapeClub]

It's nowhere near like smoking. Nothing like it. It's the tar in the cigarettes that do all the damage, not the nicotine which is only similar to a coffee hit. Vaping is very clean.

The government will push people back to smoking if they stupidly imo, go through with banning vape devices.

They should be following the NZ and UK model. There are vape stores in UK hospitals.

People won't go back to smoking unless they can find a reliable source of chop-chop, otherwise it's too damned expensive.

 

[Kurve]

Maybe, it's hardly my area of expertise, but maybe the thousands of doctors, nurses, hospitals, medical associations, etc etc do. How many centuries has it taken to deal with the smoking crisis, and there's probably another century to go. Why would anybody think it's a good idea to allow vaping, other than to further subjugate and exploit the poor and unintelligent?

It's doctors who are sending people to vape stores, not to tobacconists who sell disposable single use vapes, to give up smoking.

People need to understand the difference between the single use disposable vapes that dodgy tobacconists sell and could have anything in them, to the real vape devices that grown ups use.

 

[Kurve]

People won't go back to smoking unless they can find a reliable source of chop-chop, otherwise it's too damned expensive.

And they will find it. I can already get a packet of smokes for $20 if I want them, not chop chop. So they won't be stopping that and they can't stop the guns coming in when someone in Sydney is being shot every other day. How about they focus on that?

This government is trying to push 1.7 million vape users to get a prescription through their overworked GP for nicotine vapes at nearly triple the cost when many dont even use nicotine in their vapes because it isn't all about the nicotine.

I'm over my ALP atm, I think Mark Butler's a dikhead and I'm going to vote for the Marijuana Party next time.

 

[Carn The Berries]

And they will find it. I can already get a packet of smokes for $20 if I want them, not chop chop. So they won't be stopping that and they can't stop the guns coming in when someone in Sydney is being shot every other day. How about they focus on that?

This government is trying to push 1.7 million vape users to get a prescription through their overworked GP for nicotine vapes at nearly triple the cost when many dont even use nicotine in their vapes because it isn't all about the nicotine.

I'm over my ALP atm, I think Mark Butler's a dikhead and I'm going to vote for the Marijuana Party next time.

What about the kids that are taking up vaping? Smoking has been on the decline for years, and all of a sudden young people have a new avenue into harmful behaviour that wasn't previously available.

Yes, vaping can be beneficial to people as a way of quitting smoking, but that is the absolute only reason it should be allowed. Let GP's write a prescription for 6 months, it wouldn't be that much extra a burden. The cost benefit is definitely there if it means kids aren't getting hooked on something that might kill them.

The last school I worked at had to install vape monitors (at significant cost) because the problem is getting so bad. Kids think it's cool...

 

[Kurve]

What about the kids that are taking up vaping? Smoking has been on the decline for years, and all of a sudden young people have a new avenue into harmful behaviour that wasn't previously available.

Yes, vaping can be beneficial to people as a way of quitting smoking, but that is the absolute only reason it should be allowed. Let GP's write a prescription for 6 months, it wouldn't be that much extra a burden. The cost benefit is definitely there if it means kids aren't getting hooked on something that might kill them.

The last school I worked at had to install vape monitors (at significant cost) because the problem is getting so bad. Kids think it's cool...

Why are we allowing kids to dictate policy here?

Vapes should be regulated the same as smoking, nobody under the 18yo can buy them and stiff penalties apply on the selling.

Worth noting that kids aren't using REAL vape devices, they're getting hold of single use disposable vapes which are not sold in vape stores.

 

[Kurve]

Smoking has been on the decline for years,

Smoking is on the decline because adults are being sent to the vape stores by their doctors. That's a figure of somewhere between 1.3 and 1.7 million people.

With the undue alarm about vaping which is 95% less harmful than cigarette smoking, do you really think 1.7 million people are going to get a doctors prescription, pay for that, toddle off to the chemist and spend as much as it costs for a packet of cigarettes to get a vape when the choices are nicotine with mint or tobacco flavour when they like bubblegum? Or are they simply going to buy a packet of smokes when they go to the supermarket?

Dumbest policy ever.

I'm not arguing against the ban of single use vapes that kids are getting hold of if even that is ridiculous because they shouldn't be getting hold of them in the first place. Catch your kids with a vape, stop giving them pocket money and find out where they got it from.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Why are we allowing kids to dictate policy here?

Vapes should be regulated the same as smoking, nobody under the 18yo can buy them and stiff penalties apply on the selling.

Worth noting that kids aren't using REAL vape devices, they're getting hold of single use disposable vapes which are not sold in vape stores.

Let's flip the script there, why aren't we tailoring policy around protecting kids, when there is a viable alternative that would significantly reduce the risk to them? If someone wants to vape purely for the purpose of getting off the darts, I support that wholeheartedly. Making them get a script for it is a small price to pay to limit unintended consequences, which is exactly what kids taking up vaping is.

 

[jason_recliner]

Why are we allowing kids to dictate policy here?

Vapes should be regulated the same as smoking, nobody under the 18yo can buy them and stiff penalties apply on the selling.

Worth noting that kids aren't using REAL vape devices, they're getting hold of single use disposable vapes which are not sold in vape stores.

Why would you want ANYBODY (other than those quitting) to be able to buy toxic, harmful devices that damage their health? A senior nurse I know advised me that even vaping water is potentially harmful as it's not a good idea to have water in your lungs. I don't know if that's true but most people are vaping chemicals and many are vaping nicotine, a deadly toxin. Unless you personally are making a lot of money from selling vapes, I cannot think of one benefit they could have to you, let alone society.

You say that cops should be policing shootings instead of vapes; vapes cause harm several orders of magniture greater than a few criminals shooting at each other, that's why our taxes pay cops to go after vapes and cigarettes and not just occasional shootings.

A bit of a litmus test when considering all sorts of things... would I want to see my kids doing it? Is it going to make my life better or worse? Is it going to make me wealthier or poorer? is it going to make me more or less healthy?

What are the benefits of vaping (other than quitting smoking)?

 

[Carn The Berries]

Smoking is on the decline because adults are being sent to the vape stores by their doctors. That's a figure of somewhere between 1.3 and 1.7 million people.

With the undue alarm about vaping which is 95% less harmful than cigarette smoking, do you really think 1.7 million people are going to get a doctors prescription, pay for that, toddle off to the chemist and spend as much as it costs for a packet of cigarettes to get a vape when the choices are nicotine with mint or tobacco flavour when they like bubblegum? Or are they simply going to buy a packet of smokes when they go to the supermarket?

Dumbest policy ever.

I'm not arguing against the ban of single use vapes that kids are getting hold of if even that is ridiculous because they shouldn't be getting hold of them in the first place. Catch your kids with a vape, stop giving them pocket money and find out where they got it from.

Sorry, I should have clarified, I meant that smoking among young people, including those taking it up, has been declining. Even before vaping became as prevalent as it is now schools were seeing continuing decline in students smoking.

 

[Kurve]

Let's flip the script there, why aren't we tailoring policy around protecting kids, when there is a viable alternative that would significantly reduce the risk to them? If someone wants to vape purely for the purpose of getting off the darts, I support that wholeheartedly. Making them get a script for it is a small price to pay to limit unintended consequences, which is exactly what kids taking up vaping is.

When you turn 18yo, you can buy a packet of cigarettes that everybody agrees is far more harmful with literally thousands more toxic chemicals in them including hydrochloric acid but nobody will be able to buy a refillable device that uses vegetable glycerine. It's an outrageous hypocrisy.

They're going to push vape stores that have helped over one million give up smoking to the wall and steal their business model.

 

[jason_recliner]

Smoking rates were declining significantly for literally decades before vapes were introduced. It's increased education and tax that made the biggest difference. Vaping is helping those so far gone that they couldn't even give up at $50 a packet. The thing is, you're not supposed to replace an addiction with an addiction. Vaping is better than smoking, which is about as low a bar as can exist.

 

[Kurve]

Making them get a script for it is a small price to pay to limit unintended consequences, which is exactly what kids taking up vaping is.

Kids are using vapes because it's not regulated like smoking is, they're getting hold of cheap single use disposable units. There's a difference.

Wait until the next election, if it wasn't bad enough Albo screwed up the vote for The Voice and with Dutton ramping up to exploit the Israel Gaza war to run an anti immigration anti refugee campaign, this might be the last straw.

 

[Kurve]

Smoking rates were declining significantly for literally decades before vapes were introduced. It's increased education and tax that made the biggest difference. Vaping is helping those so far gone that they couldn't even give up at $50 a packet. The thing is, you're not supposed to replace an addiction with an addiction. Vaping is better than smoking, which is about as low a bar as can exist.

Not like it has been since vapes were introduced. Chalmers was complaining about the revenue the government has lost on cigarette sales, with this new policy he can look forward to more money.

Who says you're not supposed to replace an addiction with another addiction? That's exactly how many do it!

 

[jason_recliner]

Who says you're not supposed to replace an addiction with another addiction?

Literally every single addiction recovery service. Successful recovery is changing behaviour, not addictions.

Cigarette revenue is nearly insignificant these days, and only becoming moreso. No serious politician is advocating increasing smoking or vaping rates.

re: the election. Both parties are anti-immigration, it's way too high, and the Australian population is not 'pro-vape' and is going to vote accordingly.

 

[Kurve]

Literally every single addiction recovery service.

I call nonsense on that.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Who says you're not supposed to replace an addiction with another addiction? That's exactly how many do it!

If you're referring to substances like methadone, it's very different to addictive illegal opioids, and managed very differently if part of a program as well. Same with nicotine patches, etc.

 

[Kurve]

If you're referring to substances like methadone, it's very different to addictive illegal opioids, and managed very differently if part of a program as well. Same with nicotine patches, etc.

I'm referring to a far less harmful to almost zero harm habit, vapes. A lot of it is doing something with hands. As a former smoker I don't really buy it that it's the nicotine which is so addictive, I got bigger withdrawals off coffee and get a massive headache if I haven't had a one by lunchtime.

 

[jason_recliner]

I don't really buy it that it's the nicotine which is so addictive

Scientists should look into that!

 

[Kurve]

Scientists should look into that!

Yeah maybe they should. I couldn't even tell the difference between a vape that had nicotine in it and one that didn't.

 

[Kurve]

Tobacco purchases rise following restrictions on e-cigarette sales

The immense popularity of electronic cigarettes, or e-cigarettes, among young people has led many policymakers to restrict the sale of flavored varieties. But

ysph.yale.edu

 

[Carn The Berries]

Why would you want ANYBODY (other than those quitting) to be able to buy toxic, harmful devices that damage their health? A senior nurse I know advised me that even vaping water is potentially harmful as it's not a good idea to have water in your lungs. I don't know if that's true but most people are vaping chemicals and many are vaping nicotine, a deadly toxin. Unless you personally are making a lot of money from selling vapes, I cannot think of one benefit they could have to you, let alone society.

You say that cops should be policing shootings instead of vapes; vapes cause harm several orders of magniture greater than a few criminals shooting at each other, that's why our taxes pay cops to go after vapes and cigarettes and not just occasional shootings.

A bit of a litmus test when considering all sorts of things... would I want to see my kids doing it? Is it going to make my life better or worse? Is it going to make me wealthier or poorer? is it going to make me more or less healthy?

What are the benefits of vaping (other than quitting smoking)?

None - which is why it should be heavily regulated so that it is only used for truly medicinal purposes.

If someone doesn't want to use a vape because they can't get it in guava flavour, or whatever BS flavour they prefer, then they're not really serious about quitting.

 

[Carn The Berries]

When you turn 18yo, you can buy a packet of cigarettes that everybody agrees is far more harmful with literally thousands more toxic chemicals in them including strychnine but nobody will be able to buy a refillable device that uses vegetable glycerine. It's an outrageous hypocrisy.

They're going to push vape stores that have helped over one million give up smoking to the wall and steal their business model.

But we know that wasn't happening, even before vapes became popular (not to the extent that it had been before).

Vapes have opened up the world of smoking (anything) to a cohort who weren't gravitating to cigarettes.

 

[Kurve]

None - which is why it should be heavily regulated so that it is only used for truly medicinal purposes.

If someone doesn't want to use a vape because they can't get it in guava flavour, or whatever BS flavour they prefer, then they're not really serious about quitting.

Wasn't the aim for people to give up smoking cigarettes?

Meanwhile, Australia's policy on this is being studied and criticised all over the world.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Tobacco purchases rise following restrictions on e-cigarette sales

The immense popularity of electronic cigarettes, or e-cigarettes, among young people has led many policymakers to restrict the sale of flavored varieties. But

ysph.yale.edu

Of course that's the case initially... People who are addicted to vapes will still want the hit.

The major argument against the increased restriction on vapes is that they will help people from making the decision to SMOKE ANYTHING in the future.

 

[Kurve]

Some can have rather fanatical views about this.