Tom Wills Round? AFL are denying us the truth.

Remove this Banner Ad

Saint77

Rookie
Jul 16, 2008
32
1
Old Belfast Town
AFL Club
St Kilda
It is fact and it has been proven that there was a very popular football code identical to Aussie Rules that was being played on the Dingle Peninsula, County Kerry, Ireland, prior to 1850. Evidence has been brought to us from the thesis of Father W. Ferris of Glenflesk, Co.Kerry.

Tom Wills did not invent the Aussie rules code of footy. He only organised an existing and popular sport in 1858.

Father Ferris wrote a thesis on the code of football which was exclusive to the area encompassing the Dingle peninsula. There is no written evidence that this code of football had been played anywhere else in Ireland or the UK. In fact the most popular sport going around in Ireland during these times was Hurley.

The code of football that was from the Dingle area in County Kerry was very unique; its proper name was Caid, or Kerry Caid. When you compare this code of footy to the first recorded match of Aussie Rules football which involved Scotch College and Melbourne Grammar School in 1858 the resemblance is uncanny. Father W. Ferris described the following characteristics of Kerry Caid in the 1840's in his thesis as follows:

1. The game began when the ball was thrown in from the boundary and two opposing rucks tapped off.
2. The players were allowed to use their hands and feet to control the ball.
3. The players were not permitted to throw the ball; they had to handpass or kick.
4. The players were required to bounce the ball after covering a certain amount of ground.
5. There was no offside rule.
6. Tackling and tripping was allowed.
7. There was no set number of players per team.
8. The game was played on a large grass paddock.
9. There was no set time limit or though a certain number of goals scored concluded the game.
10. The ball used was made of animal skins with an inflated natural bladder inside, which resulted in an elongated ball.
11. Trees located at opposing ends of the paddock were used as goals.

Amazingly these characteristics are identical to football that sprung up in rural Victoria in 1853. The characteristics of Kerry Caid describe in the Thesis of Father Ferris were also the same characteristics of football played between Scotch College and Melbourne Grammar in 1858. The core characteristics of Kerry Caid have no resemblance to Rugby or Soccer which were the codes that were evolving in England, Wales and Scotland.

Prior to the major Gold Rush in 1852-53, there is no written evidence that Kerry Caid footy was played in Victoria or Australia, or even anywhere else in the world, besides the Dingle Peninsula. What is true is that this code of football was played after 1852 in Victoria. What is also true and has been recorded is that Hundreds of Irishmen from the Dingle Peninsula, County Kerry, departed Ireland and migrated for the Victorian Gold Rush in the early 1850's. And it is highly likely that the popular football code of Kerry Caid was played in Melbourne and on the Victorian Goldfields amongst the immigrants from the Dingle Peninsula. The best and fittest men of the Dingle Peninsula migrated to Victoria and as a result or maybe just a coincidence; football that is identical in nature to Kerry Caid began to be played in Victoria.

The majority of the Irish from Kerry migrated to Victoria in the early 1850's. These were the people who survived the Irish famine in 1845 to 1850. They were strong, fit and determined to make a new life for themselves as free settlers in the new wealthy colony of Victoria. And with them they brought there culture, customs and their code of footy.

Out on the goldfields most other Irishmen had never seen this type of football and either had the English, Scottish, Welsh, Germans, Italians and other Europeans. It wasn't long before this code of footy became popular amongst the other nationalities.

My Question is:

Why would our current day Aussie rules historians publish books that do not mention anything about Kerry Caid or the thesis of Father W. Ferris?

In fact they have done as much as they can to dispute that Aussie Rules has anything to do with the Irish. It is common knowledge that Aussie Rules developed far quicker in Victoria than Gaelic football did in poverty stricken Ireland after the 1850’s.

Victoria at the time of the 1850's was the wealthiest colony in the world and some of the best Irishmen and Irishwomen immigrated to Victoria to make our nation what it is today. It is known in Ireland that Caid played in Kerry is the predecessor to Gaelic Football, but here in Australia Kerry Caid has been swept under the carpet.

I find it hard to believe that Tom Wills, H.C.A. Harrison, W.J. Hammersley and J.B. Thompson invented our Australian code of football, it is more likely that they organise or developed Kerry Caid football for all Australians.

References:
  • Thesis – “Traditional game of Caid”, Father W. Ferris of Glenflesk, Killarney, Ireland
  • The Irish in Australia: 1788 To the Present by Patrick O'Farrell
  • Victorian Gold Rushes by Weston Bate
  • A History of Gaelic Football by Jack Mahon
  • The Oxford Companion to Australian History
  • A Concise History of Australia (Cambridge Concise Histories)
  • The Course of Irish History, 4th Edition by T. W. Moody
  • http://pointme.to/football/gaelic.htm
  • http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/Caid_(sport)
  • http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Caid-(sport)
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_football
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caid_(sport)
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Rules
 

Log in to remove this ad.

The AFL have never said he invented it rather he brought it to the attention of a lot of people by sending a letter into one of the papers at the time. He suggested cricketers should play AFL to keep fit in the off season.
 
yes it's a big conspiracy of denial.

soon after the AFL will be publishing official opinions on the holocaust, the moon landing, global warming and crop circles... all in the negative of course.

the truth is out there, thank you for helping to uncover this diabolical plot of denial. ;)
 
As far as I've read, our game has been described as a sort of crossbreed mongrel bastard of a game with origins from pretty much everywhere. I've never read or heard anyone say that Tom Wills hands down invented our game. At most, that he is one of the 'fathers' of our game.

And as for the AFL denying us "the truth", I don't think 'truth' is a concept that can ever be applied to history. It's a myth that there is one 'true' objective version of history. I think.

Interesting to know about the Irish side of things. I'll still happily celebrate Tommy Wills' contributions though :)
 
When was Marngrook 1st recorded as being played?
 
Such a long post for such a trivial issue.

Seriously, what's the point in debating something that changes very little? The game has become what it has become, regardless of who invented it, and how they came about it.
 
Its only too long for those who can only read and write SMS messages .

Very interesting post;
completely OTT to suggest a 'conspiracy' of course but great little contribution to the sum of knowledge about the origins of our game.

Saint77 have you read "A Game of Our Own" - I think it was written by Manning Clark (??) a well respected historian - He examined all the various roots of AR - I whether he analyses this particular form of Gaelic football there...

The origins of AR are mysterious and complex. Its part of our games mythology and adds colour to its culture.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

It is fact and it has been proven that there was a very popular football code identical to Aussie Rules that was being played on the Dingle Peninsula, County Kerry, Ireland, prior to 1850. Evidence has been brought to us from the thesis of Father W. Ferris of Glenflesk, Co.Kerry.

Tom Wills did not invent the Aussie rules code of footy. He only organised an existing and popular sport in 1858.

Father Ferris wrote a thesis on the code of football which was exclusive to the area encompassing the Dingle peninsula. There is no written evidence that this code of football had been played anywhere else in Ireland or the UK. In fact the most popular sport going around in Ireland during these times was Hurley.

The code of football that was from the Dingle area in County Kerry was very unique; its proper name was Caid, or Kerry Caid. When you compare this code of footy to the first recorded match of Aussie Rules football which involved Scotch College and Melbourne Grammar School in 1858 the resemblance is uncanny. Father W. Ferris described the following characteristics of Kerry Caid in the 1840's in his thesis as follows:

1. The game began when the ball was thrown in from the boundary and two opposing rucks tapped off.
2. The players were allowed to use their hands and feet to control the ball.
3. The players were not permitted to throw the ball; they had to handpass or kick.
4. The players were required to bounce the ball after covering a certain amount of ground.
5. There was no offside rule.
6. Tackling and tripping was allowed.
7. There was no set number of players per team.
8. The game was played on a large grass paddock.
9. There was no set time limit or though a certain number of goals scored concluded the game.
10. The ball used was made of animal skins with an inflated natural bladder inside, which resulted in an elongated ball.
11. Trees located at opposing ends of the paddock were used as goals.

Amazingly these characteristics are identical to football that sprung up in rural Victoria in 1853. The characteristics of Kerry Caid describe in the Thesis of Father Ferris were also the same characteristics of football played between Scotch College and Melbourne Grammar in 1858. The core characteristics of Kerry Caid have no resemblance to Rugby or Soccer which were the codes that were evolving in England, Wales and Scotland.

Prior to the major Gold Rush in 1852-53, there is no written evidence that Kerry Caid footy was played in Victoria or Australia, or even anywhere else in the world, besides the Dingle Peninsula. What is true is that this code of football was played after 1852 in Victoria. What is also true and has been recorded is that Hundreds of Irishmen from the Dingle Peninsula, County Kerry, departed Ireland and migrated for the Victorian Gold Rush in the early 1850's. And it is highly likely that the popular football code of Kerry Caid was played in Melbourne and on the Victorian Goldfields amongst the immigrants from the Dingle Peninsula. The best and fittest men of the Dingle Peninsula migrated to Victoria and as a result or maybe just a coincidence; football that is identical in nature to Kerry Caid began to be played in Victoria.

The majority of the Irish from Kerry migrated to Victoria in the early 1850's. These were the people who survived the Irish famine in 1845 to 1850. They were strong, fit and determined to make a new life for themselves as free settlers in the new wealthy colony of Victoria. And with them they brought there culture, customs and their code of footy.

Out on the goldfields most other Irishmen had never seen this type of football and either had the English, Scottish, Welsh, Germans, Italians and other Europeans. It wasn't long before this code of footy became popular amongst the other nationalities.

My Question is:

Why would our current day Aussie rules historians publish books that do not mention anything about Kerry Caid or the thesis of Father W. Ferris?

In fact they have done as much as they can to dispute that Aussie Rules has anything to do with the Irish. It is common knowledge that Aussie Rules developed far quicker in Victoria than Gaelic football did in poverty stricken Ireland after the 1850’s.

Victoria at the time of the 1850's was the wealthiest colony in the world and some of the best Irishmen and Irishwomen immigrated to Victoria to make our nation what it is today. It is known in Ireland that Caid played in Kerry is the predecessor to Gaelic Football, but here in Australia Kerry Caid has been swept under the carpet.

I find it hard to believe that Tom Wills, H.C.A. Harrison, W.J. Hammersley and J.B. Thompson invented our Australian code of football, it is more likely that they organise or developed Kerry Caid football for all Australians.


References:
  • Thesis – “Traditional game of Caid”, Father W. Ferris of Glenflesk, Killarney, Ireland
  • The Irish in Australia: 1788 To the Present by Patrick O'Farrell
  • Victorian Gold Rushes by Weston Bate
  • A History of Gaelic Football by Jack Mahon
  • The Oxford Companion to Australian History
  • A Concise History of Australia (Cambridge Concise Histories)
  • The Course of Irish History, 4th Edition by T. W. Moody
  • http://pointme.to/football/gaelic.htm
  • http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/Caid_(sport)
  • http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Caid-(sport)
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_football
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caid_(sport)
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Rules



Did Robert Harvey poll any votes?
 
yes it's a big conspiracy of denial.

soon after the AFL will be publishing official opinions on the holocaust, the moon landing, global warming and crop circles... all in the negative of course.

the truth is out there, thank you for helping to uncover this diabolical plot of denial. ;)

Apparently Andy has been covering up Didak's involvement in Kennedy's assissination -- or so says an old sports journalist.
 
Interesting post Saint77. I thought it was a good read.

Maybe the AFL should consider Dingle Peninsula, County Kerry in Ireland, for their 19th or 20th license;)
 
To answer a previous post - 'A Game of Our Own' is by Geoffrey Blainey - he went into much research and dingleball or whatever had nothing to do with Aussie Rules.

Tom Wills taught at Rugby school in england during thr 1850s. In his time there, he experienced many kinds of ball sport because each public school back then in england had their own variety of games of football. Rugby school's game went on to be rugby as we know it today.

Wills came back to melbourne and thought he'd put together a variation of rules that he liked to keep cricketers fit in the off-season. The first game was actually between Melbourne Grammar and St. Kilda Grammar (no longer exists) (this game was recorded in the MGS headmaster's diary), however the first officially recorded game was between MGS and Scotch.

There would have been thousands of variations of football sports in the world at the time - just like the aboriginal game marn grook, however the game that AFL has developed from was the game the Tom Wills put together and organised. Thank you Mr. Wills
 
The AFL have never said he invented it rather he brought it to the attention of a lot of people by sending a letter into one of the papers at the time. He suggested cricketers should play AFL to keep fit in the off season.

Ummm, it's called Australian Rules.

AFL is a competition, not the name of the game.

Man that shits me.
 
It is fact and it has been proven that there was a very popular football code identical to Aussie Rules that was being played on the Dingle Peninsula, County Kerry, Ireland, prior to 1850. Evidence has been brought to us from the thesis of Father W. Ferris of Glenflesk, Co.Kerry.

Tom Wills did not invent the Aussie rules code of footy. He only organised an existing and popular sport in 1858.

Father Ferris wrote a thesis on the code of football which was exclusive to the area encompassing the Dingle peninsula. There is no written evidence that this code of football had been played anywhere else in Ireland or the UK. In fact the most popular sport going around in Ireland during these times was Hurley.

The code of football that was from the Dingle area in County Kerry was very unique; its proper name was Caid, or Kerry Caid. When you compare this code of footy to the first recorded match of Aussie Rules football which involved Scotch College and Melbourne Grammar School in 1858 the resemblance is uncanny. Father W. Ferris described the following characteristics of Kerry Caid in the 1840's in his thesis as follows:

1. The game began when the ball was thrown in from the boundary and two opposing rucks tapped off.
2. The players were allowed to use their hands and feet to control the ball.
3. The players were not permitted to throw the ball; they had to handpass or kick.
4. The players were required to bounce the ball after covering a certain amount of ground.
5. There was no offside rule.
6. Tackling and tripping was allowed.
7. There was no set number of players per team.
8. The game was played on a large grass paddock.
9. There was no set time limit or though a certain number of goals scored concluded the game.
10. The ball used was made of animal skins with an inflated natural bladder inside, which resulted in an elongated ball.
11. Trees located at opposing ends of the paddock were used as goals.

Amazingly these characteristics are identical to football that sprung up in rural Victoria in 1853. The characteristics of Kerry Caid describe in the Thesis of Father Ferris were also the same characteristics of football played between Scotch College and Melbourne Grammar in 1858. The core characteristics of Kerry Caid have no resemblance to Rugby or Soccer which were the codes that were evolving in England, Wales and Scotland.

Prior to the major Gold Rush in 1852-53, there is no written evidence that Kerry Caid footy was played in Victoria or Australia, or even anywhere else in the world, besides the Dingle Peninsula. What is true is that this code of football was played after 1852 in Victoria. What is also true and has been recorded is that Hundreds of Irishmen from the Dingle Peninsula, County Kerry, departed Ireland and migrated for the Victorian Gold Rush in the early 1850's. And it is highly likely that the popular football code of Kerry Caid was played in Melbourne and on the Victorian Goldfields amongst the immigrants from the Dingle Peninsula. The best and fittest men of the Dingle Peninsula migrated to Victoria and as a result or maybe just a coincidence; football that is identical in nature to Kerry Caid began to be played in Victoria.

The majority of the Irish from Kerry migrated to Victoria in the early 1850's. These were the people who survived the Irish famine in 1845 to 1850. They were strong, fit and determined to make a new life for themselves as free settlers in the new wealthy colony of Victoria. And with them they brought there culture, customs and their code of footy.

Out on the goldfields most other Irishmen had never seen this type of football and either had the English, Scottish, Welsh, Germans, Italians and other Europeans. It wasn't long before this code of footy became popular amongst the other nationalities.

My Question is:

Why would our current day Aussie rules historians publish books that do not mention anything about Kerry Caid or the thesis of Father W. Ferris?

In fact they have done as much as they can to dispute that Aussie Rules has anything to do with the Irish. It is common knowledge that Aussie Rules developed far quicker in Victoria than Gaelic football did in poverty stricken Ireland after the 1850’s.

Victoria at the time of the 1850's was the wealthiest colony in the world and some of the best Irishmen and Irishwomen immigrated to Victoria to make our nation what it is today. It is known in Ireland that Caid played in Kerry is the predecessor to Gaelic Football, but here in Australia Kerry Caid has been swept under the carpet.

I find it hard to believe that Tom Wills, H.C.A. Harrison, W.J. Hammersley and J.B. Thompson invented our Australian code of football, it is more likely that they organise or developed Kerry Caid football for all Australians.

References:
  • Thesis – “Traditional game of Caid”, Father W. Ferris of Glenflesk, Killarney, Ireland
  • The Irish in Australia: 1788 To the Present by Patrick O'Farrell
  • Victorian Gold Rushes by Weston Bate
  • A History of Gaelic Football by Jack Mahon
  • The Oxford Companion to Australian History
  • A Concise History of Australia (Cambridge Concise Histories)
  • The Course of Irish History, 4th Edition by T. W. Moody
  • http://pointme.to/football/gaelic.htm
  • http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/Caid_(sport)
  • http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Caid-(sport)
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_football
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caid_(sport)
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Rules
Tom Wills developed football from rugby that he had played.He had a pretty extraordinary life ,his Father was murdered by aboriginals ,he was the coach of the first team to tour England in cricket which was his real game,the team was all aboriginal.
My Dutch mate reckons Aussie rules was invented by stranded Dutch sailors and local aborigines in the north west of WA in the 17th century ha, sounds a bit far fetched. Although did you hear the one about the Irishman the one about the Irishman. Know what I mean.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Tom Wills Round? AFL are denying us the truth.

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top