Top 100 players since 1980

[Blind Turn]

I both agree and disagree all at once

Smith has been, or very close to, the best winger year in year out for well over a decade. His games, goals and all stats are pretty similar to Matera. He has been unlucky with AA selection on more than a few occassions, was a key cog in 4 flags, has won a NS and has had other big finals, including a key role in the 2013 GF (the closest of Hawthorn's threepeat). Therefore, I agree that he is underrated in general and closer to Matera that his accolades might suggest.

However, despite this, the gap between the two is still absolutely apparent IMO (and "closer than some might think" does not necessarily mean it's actually close - it's not - just closer than some who underrate Smith may believe it to be). Matera, as you say, is almost the universal answer for the best wingman the game has ever seen. He was All Australian 5 times and to be frank, was one of the first picked and an absolute lock every single time. Smith may have been unlucky not to be named when he was "in the mix" but he was never an "outrageous omission" or an obvious lock that meant he HAD to be selected (again, as Peter was 5 times!). As you also indentified, Matera finished 4th in the BL in '91, 2nd in the BL in '94 and 3rd in the BL in '97. Smith, on the other hand, has never had a season with more than 6 votes. Matera was broadly considered the best player in the best team at the time and one of the best players in the game, year in, year out. Smith has been high level for a long time but was probably the 4th or 5th best player in the best team and never really considered amongst the top 20 players in any particular season.

For these reasons, Matera was a clear level above and that for me is the difference between a top 40-50 player for the period and someone who probably sits in the 120 - 200 bracket.

Fair enough.

On the All Aus thing though, he’s probably suffered from being in an era where picking a wingman in the team purely based on wingmanish qualities was superseded by the notion that there were so many midfielders worthy that the wing positions were adopted as 2 extra midfielder slots instead.

 

[craffles]

I really don’t like the argument of premierships a player has won when developing lists for the best individual talent. A premiership requires 22 players on the day to perform and 30 over the season. Yes, guns having bearing on this but really it’s a non factor for me. Isaac smith

7

Isaac Smith

Age

36

Ht

188cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

8.4

5star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.7

4star

D

19.4

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.3

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.5

3star

CL

1.3

4star

D

19.2

5star

K

10.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

7.6

5star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.6

3star

has no place being anywhere near the top 100

 

[Blind Turn]

I really don’t like the argument of premierships a player has won when developing lists for the best individual talent. A premiership requires 22 players on the day to perform and 30 over the season. Yes, guns having bearing on this but really it’s a non factor for me. Isaac smith has no place being anywhere near the top 100

Premierships won is not a big factor in my rankings. Performance in finals/grand finals/big games are though. I think you’re being a bit unfair suggesting he shouldn’t be anywhere near it considering the impact he has had in important games over an extended period now. You’re well within your rights to not consider him worthy of being on this list but he is definitely now in the conversation. He is a quality performer who hurts the opposition with his pace, metres gained, and goals kicked. Subjectively, I also like his style of play and he has helped reinvigorate a plodding midfield at Geelong. He’s right up there with the best wingmen I’ve seen.

What aspects make you think he should be ‘nowhere near’ this list?

 

[AFDogs]

I really don’t like the argument of premierships a player has won when developing lists for the best individual talent. A premiership requires 22 players on the day to perform and 30 over the season. Yes, guns having bearing on this but really it’s a non factor for me. Isaac smith has no place being anywhere near the top 100

Agreed. People used to shit on Dangerfield for this very reason. Give me Nick Riewoldt over Isaac Smith any day of the week.

Some people got lucky and were drafted into great teams, others not so much. Some stuck by their clubs even though they never won it.

 

[00Stinger]

What aspects make you think he should be ‘nowhere near’ this list?

The aspect that he wouldn't be in the top 250 players of the last 42 years let alone top 100

 

[Blind Turn]

The aspect that he wouldn't be in the top 250 players of the last 42 years let alone top 100

When I decided to add Smith I thought it might be contentious
He is in the conversation. He performs in big games and has been doing it for a long time now. He’s better than you give him credit for, as they say.

 

[00Stinger]

When I decided to add Smith I thought it might be contentious
He is in the conversation. He performs in big games and has been doing it for a long time now. He’s better than you give him credit for, as they say.

I think he is a really good player

But over the last 24 years there has probably never been a time where he would be considered in the top 20-25 players in the game at that time. Therefore I don't think you could argue for him being in the top 100 players of the last 42 years

And tbf there would be a lot of absolute guns who wouldn't make the top 100 players in that time. But having a look at your list there seems to be a big sway towards towards players from 2000 onwards

 

[eaglespremiers]

18/ Chris Judd - was at his best when at WC bursting out of packs but lacked kicking penetration and his goal-kicking impact was only average.

I'm going to ignore you listing Danger and Martin ahead of Judd (which IMO is very inaccurate).
But this assertion about his kicking penetration and goal kicking impact is just baseless.
He would regularly sink goals from 45m + as seen in the below video. Also he went better than a goal a game at West Coast, which is absolutely elite.

 

[Blind Turn]

I'm going to ignore you listing Danger and Martin ahead of Judd (which IMO is very inaccurate).
But this assertion about his kicking penetration and goal kicking impact is just baseless.
He would regularly sink goals from 45m + as seen in the below video. Also he went better than a goal a game at West Coast, which is absolutely elite.

He’s 18th. That’s a very high ranking. Yeah he was on the right trajectory as the complete midfielder at WC. Then he went to Carlton and was a different type of beast. He kicked 90 goals in his last 145 games and undoubtedly lost his kicking penetration. This is my assessment. If he’d played 279 games in the style he played at WC he would be top 10. His quality at Carlton was also unbelievable but he became less multi-dimensional and that marks him down a little for me.

And Martin has done things in the game no-one before him has. He deserves his spot in the top 10 now. Danger is a fair debate to have but now that he has reached the pinnacle and performed in that decisive game it made me finally push him into that top 20 bracket. He’s on par with Judd, no doubt in my mind.

 

[Blind Turn]

I think he is a really good player

But over the last 24 years there has probably never ben a time where he would be considered in the top 20-25 players in the game at that time. Therefore I don't think you could argue for him being in the top 100 players of the last 42 years

And tbf there would be a lot of absolute guns who wouldn't make the top 100 players in that time. But having a look at your list there seems to be a big sway towards towards players from 2000 onwards

Only 8 of my top 30 played their best footy post 2000. If anything I sway toward the earlier years when nostalgia blurs your judgment. I’ve tried my utmost to give an even representation.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Premierships won is not a big factor in my rankings. Performance in finals/grand finals/big games are though. I think you’re being a bit unfair suggesting he shouldn’t be anywhere near it considering the impact he has had in important games over an extended period now. You’re well within your rights to not consider him worthy of being on this list but he is definitely now in the conversation. He is a quality performer who hurts the opposition with his pace, metres gained, and goals kicked. Subjectively, I also like his style of play and he has helped reinvigorate a plodding midfield at Geelong. He’s right up there with the best wingmen I’ve seen.

What aspects make you think he should be ‘nowhere near’ this list?

I don't think he's anywhere near the conversation. I've got holidays coming up in a few weeks, I might sit down and try and nut out my 100 but I'm fairly confident that Smith won't be anywhere near it. If we're picking the top 100 since 1980, I could probably pick a couple of dozen from Hawthorn alone that won't include him. I think I'd have Rohan Smith closer than Isaac.

 

[Blind Turn]

I don't think he's anywhere near the conversation. I've got holidays coming up in a few weeks, I might sit down and try and nut out my 100 but I'm fairly confident that Smith won't be anywhere near it. If we're picking the top 100 since 1980, I could probably pick a couple of dozen from Hawthorn alone that won't include him. I think I'd have Rohan Smith closer than Isaac.

He consistently performs in big games, does the most essential thing in footy (ie kicks goals, and important ones too), is skilled on the run, is fast and has endurance, and has now done it for many years. He is definitely in the conversation and is a far more impactful player than Rohan (surely you’re taking the piss a bit here). He may not spend much time in this top 100 but he gets a nod here for the time-being as I think he is a worthy candidate.

 

[Blind Turn]

I don't think he's anywhere near the conversation. I've got holidays coming up in a few weeks, I might sit down and try and nut out my 100 but I'm fairly confident that Smith won't be anywhere near it. If we're picking the top 100 since 1980, I could probably pick a couple of dozen from Hawthorn alone that won't include him. I think I'd have Rohan Smith closer than Isaac.

Look forward to seeing your top 100 mate. I’m not going to knock your choices as it is as much subjective as it is objective when it comes to the enjoyment of watching as a spectator. Debating the merits of certain choices is part and parcel of this exercise though and is part of the reason for me putting it out there.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Look forward to seeing your top 100 mate. I’m not going to knock your choices as it is as much subjective as it is objective when it comes to the enjoyment of watching as a spectator. Debating the merits of certain choices is part and parcel of this exercise though and is part of the reason for me putting it out there.

I'm in the process now. I quickly wrote players off the top of my head that I'd have in and now I've started going throught season results from 1980 to job my memory in case there were some obvious ones I've forgotten about. I'm not looking at every single season but every 3rd or so and I'm only looking at 3 rounds per season, beginning, middle and end, just in case there were players out injured at the start or in the middle of the season.

I'm up to the mid 90s seasons now and I'm going to have to be a lot more critical of who I put down in my initial squad. I've just done a quick tally of who I think should be automatically in the 100 and I'm already up to 110 and that's leaving out about another 100 plus that I've put down.

There's going to be some serious culling at the end.

The first 15 years I've looked at has just reaffirmed how utterly terrible St Kilda and Melbourne were for that period.

 

[Blind Turn]

I'm in the process now. I quickly wrote players off the top of my head that I'd have in and now I've started going throught season results from 1980 to job my memory in case there were some obvious ones I've forgotten about. I'm not looking at every single season but every 3rd or so and I'm only looking at 3 rounds per season, beginning, middle and end, just in case there were players out injured at the start or in the middle of the season.

I'm up to the mid 90s seasons now and I'm going to have to be a lot more critical of who I put down in my initial squad. I've just done a quick tally of who I think should be automatically in the 100 and I'm already up to 110 and that's leaving out about another 100 plus that I've put down.

There's going to be some serious culling at the end.

The first 15 years I've looked at has just reaffirmed how utterly terrible St Kilda and Melbourne were for that period.

You’ll get most of the worthy players in my other thread here listing best 22s for each club since 1980 if you think you might’ve missed anyone..

 

[My Tilly]

He consistently performs in big games, does the most essential thing in footy (ie kicks goals, and important ones too), is skilled on the run, is fast and has endurance, and has now done it for many years. He is definitely in the conversation and is a far more impactful player than Rohan (surely you’re taking the piss a bit here). He may not spend much time in this top 100 but he gets a nod here for the time-being as I think he is a worthy candidate.

Richard Osborne was a champion. I'd take him ahead of Isaac Smith. Gary Wilson is also an obvious choice. Leigh Matthews rated him very highly.
Wayne Johnston was another brilliant player. No disrespect to blokes like O'Keefe or Jobe Watson but he'd probably nudge one of those out of the top 100.
Dale Weightman another champion. Brilliant big game player. Finals, State of Origin, an absolute gun of the highest order.

 

[Blind Turn]

Richard Osborne was a champion. I'd take him ahead of Isaac Smith. Gary Wilson is also an obvious choice. Leigh Matthews rated him very highly.
Wayne Johnston was another brilliant player. No disrespect to blokes like O'Keefe or Jobe Watson but he'd probably nudge one of those out of the top 100.
Dale Weightman another champion. Brilliant big game player. Finals, State of Origin, an absolute gun of the highest order.

Weightman and Johnston were in my original list when I first did it about 9 years ago but got nudged out by players coming through like O’Keefe who I think became such a well-rounded gun as a midfielder that by the time he had finals performances behind him I’d take him in my team ahead of Weightman every time. The players Weightman could potentially be above might be blokes like Millane, Ayres and Merrett but I have probably gone with a subjective preference in that I loved the way they played the game.

Wilson suffers in that I saw very little of the player he would have been in the 70s, much like Knights.

Smith is undoubtedly a contentious selection but his talent, his output over a long period, and his impact generally during games and, more specifically, in finals really should be acknowledged. As I have mentioned, he might not be in this list for long but for now I feel comfortable having him there.

Jobe was a ball winning freak and considered one of the best 1/2 dozen players in the comp at his peak. Again, the subjectivity is in play considering how much I saw of his freakish ball extracting.

 

[OPofJazz]

I would put Crippa on there definitely.

 

[Blind Turn]

I would put Crippa on there definitely.

End of last season was the first time I had him as a serious consideration. He’s close but a couple of quiet season prior to last year holds him back for mine. If he puts in another cracking season this year he’ll be hard to leave out. A good finals series would help too. As a good comparison he’d need to oust Darren Millane who is one of the toughest players I’ve seen, skilled to boot, and performed in finals.

 

[ZionMig22]

88/ Robbie Gray

9

Robbie Gray

Age

36

Ht

183cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.9

5star

K

9.8

4star

HB

10.1

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.4

5star

D

13.3

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

G

0.6

4star

D

10.4

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.4

5star

- Versatile forward/mid who went from being a cameo performer into a match-winner. His ability to impact a game with telling disposals was, at times, breathtaking to watch.

Didn't bother to read the rest of the list the OP created after seing Gray as a Top 100 player since 1980

 

[Blind Turn]

88/ Robbie Gray - Versatile forward/mid who went from being a cameo performer into a match-winner. His ability to impact a game with telling disposals was, at times, breathtaking to watch.

Didn't bother to read the rest of the list the OP created after seing Gray as a Top 100 player since 1980

Your loss. It’s a nice list.

 

[ZionMig22]

Your loss. It’s a nice list.

How can you honestly tell me Gray is in this list

 

[Blind Turn]

How can you honestly tell me Gray is in this list

Was an outstanding footballer whom I enjoyed watching. Was a player who could change the momentum of a game in an instant. Some of his Showdown performances were dominant. I can understand how others might not rate him this high but as I said, there has to be a subjective coating to the objective nuts and bolts of rating players. Sth Aus footy fans would concur I’m sure.

 

[OPofJazz]

Was an outstanding footballer whom I enjoyed watching. Was a player who could change the momentum of a game in an instant. Some of his Showdown performances were dominant. I can understand how others might not rate him this high but as I said, there has to be a subjective coating to the objective nuts and bolts of rating players. Sth Aus footy fans would concur I’m sure.

Cripps is a just maybe a chance, meanwhile Robbie Gray is 88. What are you talking about mate?

 

[Blind Turn]

Cripps is a just maybe a chance, meanwhile Robbie Gray is 88. What are you talking about mate?

Don’t worry mate. Cripps will get there eventually… unless he falls off a cliff in the next 12 months. He’s had one great season after a couple of very average seasons. Despite his Brownlow he wasn’t the best player last season so I’m not basing it an that accolade either. Gray has a whole career of consistently being a game-changer. He fully deserves to be on this list up to this point. If you saw him play enough you would know this. I see Cripps being in the Jobe Watson territory if he can string together a couple more years at the level of last year.