Top 5 best grand final performances for no Norm Smith

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Seeds said:
Langford had five kicked on him in a half of football despite Ablett getting bugger all supply. Langford was murdered. History suggests the umps did enough to get the Hawks over the line in the first quarter.
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No mention about how the umpires tried to drag Geelong over the line in the 08 GF?

I am shocked to be sitting here. :eek:
 
footyfan78 said:
Wayne Johnston created the first two goals of the game virtually within a minute.
The guy was coming back from 2 week suspension and was ready to go like a caged lion let loose.

I think in 87 grand final he also was instrumental at the start.
Funny story at start of that grand final. He intended to line Dipper up at first bounce but he noticed Hawks had too many players in square and told the umpire and umpire was forced to give him a free kick to start the grand final rather that have his moment of bouncing the ball to start a grand final. About ten minutes later Johnston did whack Dipper. Same umpire reported it. Johnston being the character he is, said why did you report me it is Dipper , he deserves a whack. Ump apparently told him you pissed me off stealing my moment in sun of bouncing ball at the start. This is my pay back... ha ha.

Anyway back on topic. Johnston was very good in all 4 the grand finals we won in his time. Think he was a bit stiff not to win a Norm Smith at some time in 79, 81, 82 and 87 grand finals. Funny that Harmes won the 1979 Norm Smith. I think it was first of the medals given out and he was related to the Norm Smith family. Think his auntie presented the medal to him. I actually thought Harmes was better in the 1981 grand final. Kicked goal of day and took mark of the day in that grand final.
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Dermot later admitted he played with a broken ankle that game. Had that secret been public then maybe Rhys-Jones may not have got the nod.
 

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pazza said:
A new nomination...again from 1984 - Leon Baker.

The journeyman played as big a role as any that day.

His 2 goals to 3/4 time kept Essendon in the game. His first 2 goals of the final term (2 of the first 4 and 4 goals for the match) helped enomously in the premiership victory.
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Saw a replay recently over the summer, game turned halfway through the second quarter only Essendon couldn't hit the side of a barn. Once they got on target in the last it was a lay down mizere
 
Todman said:
Saw a replay recently over the summer, game turned halfway through the second quarter only Essendon couldn't hit the side of a barn. Once they got on target in the last it was a lay down mizere
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My favourite grand final to watch as a neutral. Was a ripper of a game. Wish there were more Leon Baker's around. Sublime skill.
 
footyfan78 said:
Wayne Johnston created the first two goals of the game virtually within a minute.
The guy was coming back from 2 week suspension and was ready to go like a caged lion let loose.

I think in 87 grand final he also was instrumental at the start.
Funny story at start of that grand final. He intended to line Dipper up at first bounce but he noticed Hawks had too many players in square and told the umpire and umpire was forced to give him a free kick to start the grand final rather that have his moment of bouncing the ball to start a grand final.


The umpire did give the ball to Johnston as Hawthorn had 5 in at the centre bounce (what the hell happened there?) but should have given it to Madden as a free kick for encroachment in the centre square goes to the opposing ruckman.
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Seeds said:
Langford had five kicked on him in a half of football despite Ablett getting bugger all supply. Langford was murdered. History suggests the umps did enough to get the Hawks over the line in the first quarter.
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Yes, the umps did do enough to get Hawthorn over the line by blowing their whistles and paying the free kicks for all the Geelong psycho acts. Ablett turning to the side and crashing into Dipper with his hip when he could have just fisted the ball away. Hocking belting Platten and Kennedy when attacking the ball might have prevented goals. Also, while no free kick was paid, we had the mindset of Geelong displayed when Bews, Bruns & Hocking were all getting stuck into Dipper on the wing with the ball in dispute not far from them and ending up in Brereton's hands for his first goal of the day. History can suggest what it likes, the footage of the game shows the facts.
 
1983 - John Kennedy could easily have won it and there is some merit behind the thought that with he and Robertson looking so similar, that mistaken identity played a part. It oes two ways though and which judges thought who was who ?

1985 Dermott Brereton - while it is hard to mount a case for a player in a side that loses by 78 points - Hawthorn was only about 4 goals down at 3/4 time before Essendon stopped toying with them. Ablett kicked 9 in a losing side and will be forever lauded. Brereton kicked 8 in a losing side where the gap between the two sides was much larger and from a lot less opportunities. You could have pulled any Essendon players name out of a hat for the norm Smith that day such was their dominance, yet I cahllenge anyone to watch that game and say and single Essendon player played better than Brereton did. No way.

1986 - Rodney Eade - blanketed Craig Bradley and got plenty of ball himself. Clearly BOG in my opinion.

1988 - Paul Abbott. In a 96-point victory, you would not expect a backman to be best on ground and while Dunstall (7 goals) and Brereton (5 goals) were excellent, the very underrated Paul Abbott kicked 6 goals as a mobile CHF/2nd ruckman type and how anyone could say that Gary Ayres played better, was more influential, had more impact etc is completely beyond me. Ayres did do a couple of superb and courageous defensive acts in the 2nd quarter and I can only surmise that those acts influenced the judges in a game where every Hawthorn player (except Wittman and his broken arm) played well.

1991 - James Morrissey - Paul Dear was definitely instrumental in getting Hawthorn back from the disastrous start to the game and he continued to do some very good things. If it wasn't for the goal he kicked after grabbing the ball at the boundary throw-in and wheeling round on his left, which did look very classy, then the medal would have gone to Morrissey. He totally shut out Chris Lewis who would normally carve us up, and got possessions like he was playing in the midfield. Also very stiff was Stephen Lawrence who effectively ended Dean Irving's career such was his dominance in the ruck, as well as a ton of posessions.
 
1982 and/or 1987 - Wayne Johnston. Ignited Carlton in both games and clearly among their best players. Unlucky not to win one Norm Smith from four great Grand Finals.

1986 - Rodney Eade. Most possessions on the ground and just pipped by Ayres. Maybe another case where two players of similar build were mistaken.

1995 - Kouta had the same number of possessions as Williams (but didn't kick 5 goals). Thought he had more influence earlier in the game.

1996 - Wayne Carey had good stats with 22 possessions, 9 marks and 1 goal. Thought he kept North in the game in the first half when Swans were dominating.

2002 - Michael Voss. Big influence on final result and unlucky not to win Norm Smith. Buckley was great that day too and Collingwood's best.
 
ljamest36 said:
1979-Wayne Harmes won the game for Carlton BOG
1997-Andrew Mcleod unstoppable in defence, Darren Jarman had a case but he only kicked the 5 goals in the last quarter because of Jamie Shanahan being incorrectly placed on him.
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Never seen someone play down a 5 goal last quarter from an individual when the game was in the balance at 3QT in a Grand Final like this.
 

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Leon Baker 1984.

Leading goalkicker with 4 goals and 20 touches was the instrumentalist out of the centre (with Daisy and Madden) to over run the hawks
 
Doss said:
Cloke's last game was for Richmond, against Carlton in 1991 (he went back there at the very end of his career).

He kicked 8.
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Cloke was always 3rd or 4th choice ruckman at Richmond. At Collingwood, he became their first ruck with great success (runner-up in '84 Brownlow). So when he went back to Richmond, he played exclusively as a ruck. Last game 1991, Tigers decided to give their young up-and-coming big guy Ty Esler a game. Cloke just sat in the goalsquare (Carlton probably played their 'Up-and-Coming young full-back).

KB was an annoying little sh!t running around snagging goals - but no one ever thumped him. A) they couldn't catch him and B) Cloke.
 
iluvparis said:
Agree that the Dominator was unlucky not to snag a Norm in either 82 or 87 when he was crucial in igniting Carlton in both games, played well throughout, and there was no real stand out in either game.
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The unluckiest for The Dom was 79' I reckon. Harmes had massive influence coming into the centre in the second half, but Johnston was BOG. And 82' I reckon he was stiff too.

It just shows what the Norm Smith means as an accolade that this bloke could've had 3 or 4, just every time one group of judges doing the voting picked someone else. So instead he's left with none, while other 2-time winners are lauded as finals legends, he gets a bit forgotten despite being arguably the greatest of them all.
 
I haven't seen many from before 2002 so I'll have to go with Josh Kennedy from Sydney in Last years grand final, I tipped him to go for 40 touches and 3 goals. He was dominant that day.
 
Dew in 08' was stiff but Hodge was amazing that day and I wouldn't change it.
Goddard in 10' should have won it.
Hannebery/Roberts-Thomson in 12' seriously they both tore us apart... Roberts-Thomson was huge that day..... Hanners extremely stiff..
Gunston in 13' very stiff and I reckon Lake had a lot of late/junk time exposure which flicked the 50/50 his way (still worthy winner)
Langford in 14' similar to Dew stood up when required but Hodge was clearly a beast that day and wouldn't be denied that Norm Smith.
Sammy Mitchell was pretty stiff in a lot of those premiership years too.

10571z said:
I thought Goddard in 2010 was super human. He actually dominated and was everywhere. That mark at the end could have been one of the most iconic GF moments of all time. Extremely stiff not to win it
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For mine is one of the most iconic GF moments, deserved to win, that was something special.....
Goosebumps watching it back, imagine if he kicked it after the siren to win.....
 
Seeds said:
Langford had five kicked on him in a half of football despite Ablett getting bugger all supply. Langford was murdered. History suggests the umps did enough to get the Hawks over the line in the first quarter.
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LOL....Oh dear.

Maybe if the Cats had of gone the ball & not the man eh?....Hindsight melt of the year thus far.

Hawks who have been stiff to miss out:

Dipper or Matthews in 1978.....It's time to make the award retrospective given full replays are available....1979 is so random.
Knights in 1976....Hendrie kicked 2.8, but bad kicking won't do it.
Don Scott or Kel Moore in 1971.

Matthews in 1983 was stiff to miss out in kicking 6 goals 5.
Eade was easily B.O.G in 1986 & was utterly robbed.
Dunstall with 7 in 1988, though any one of 6 Hawks could have won it that day.
Mitchell in 2014, though Hodge was probably his equal.
 
2008 was Dews, he turned the game on its head.
2010 was BJs, I remember telling my sister ill give her 1000 bucks of they dont call BJ out. I didnt pay up but still... One of the best individual games I've seen.
2013 was Gunstons, Lake didn't get a kick in the last quarter.
2014 was Mitchell's, Hodge butchered it but the Hodge circle jerk among the experts (why do journalists vote on this prestigious award?) got him over the line. No real clear winner but thought Mitchell was better, Lewis was worthy as well.
2016 T Boyd. JJ was probably 4th or 5th for mine, Boyd won the game and stood up when someone needed to.
 
Procrastinator35 said:
Hawks who have been stiff to miss out:

Dipper or Matthews in 1978.....It's time to make the award retrospective given full replays are available....1979 is so random.
Knights in 1976....Hendrie kicked 2.8, but bad kicking won't do it.
Don Scott or Kel Moore in 1971.

Matthews in 1983 was stiff to miss out in kicking 6 goals 5.
Eade was easily B.O.G in 1986 & was utterly robbed.
Dunstall with 7 in 1988, though any one of 6 Hawks could have won it that day.
Mitchell in 2014, though Hodge was probably his equal.
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It's been done, well sort of!! The results are included in the awards section of the AFL Record Season Guide:-

GRAND FINAL BEST ON GROUND: 1965-78
In 2001, the AFL Record named the players who were best on ground in the Grand Finals between 1965 and 1978. A panel of football and media experts was selected for each year and asked to judge the best on ground. Because there is little or no vision of Grand Finals before 1965, that was deemed to be the cut-off point. The selections were:
1965 Ted Fordham (Essendon)
1966 Ian Cooper (St Kilda)
1967 Bill Goggin (Geelong)
1968 Gary Crane (Carlton)
1969 Michael Green (Richmond)
1970 David McKay (Carlton)
1971 Kelvin Moore (Hawthorn)
1972 Robert Walls (Carlton)
1973 Kevin Bartlett (Richmond)
1974 Kevin Sheedy (Richmond)
1975 Brent Crosswell (North Melb)
1976 John Hendrie (Hawthorn)
1977 Len Thompson (Collingwood)
1977* Arnold Briedis (North Melb)
1978 Robert DiPierdomenico (Hawthorn)

*replay
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 2001 Grand Final Football Record (pages 106-110) has more on this fascinating topic, including details of voting.
https://www.slv.vic.gov.au/football-record
 
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Top 5 best grand final performances for no Norm Smith

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