Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Zim^zuM]

Opposition supporters (and even some of our own) might think walking him to the preseason draft is cutting off our nose to spite our face. Letting him go for nothing vs getting even a poor deal (2nd rounder this year and future first) is not how you build a list properly. And they may be right.

However, I'm in the camp where if Brisbane don't come with a better deal then they should walk him for nothing and let someone else pick him up. Aside from it being a stand you make to ensure you're not walked over in future trades, it also avoids him going to a team that we're going to be in competition with if we have designs on finals and top four (which we should imo).

Maybe it's stupid, maybe other clubs and their supporters would laugh, and maybe it comes back to bite us because we miss out on a couple of good youngsters this year and next year who could've contributed significantly to our future. But in the moment it feels like the right decision, albeit an emotive one that's maybe not that rational.

Finally, there's a part of me that would like it to happen just for the intrigue. What would he do? What club would pick him up? I'd rather it wasn't my club taking the hit on draft capital but it would be an interesting watch.

As much as these 2 picks will be nice... the players we select could end up a bust anyways.

 

[Deadly Darcy]

F1, pick 21, and me. Final offer.

Is that you Tippah?

Not sure about everyone else on here but I’m perfectly happy to let Dunks go through to the PSD rather than accept Brisbane’s offer.

Their current offer is disingenuous and an insult really for a player who is 25 and just won our best and fairest award and is a borderline All Australian standard player now for a few years.

I think we actually win more for future standing and deals by other clubs knowing we won’t hesitate to put a player into the draft before accepting a drastically below market offer for one of our key players. He isn’t a free agent so they have to negotiate in good faith. Brisbane have prioritised getting points for Ashcroft and Fletcher over bringing in Dunkley, fair enough that’s their perogative but then maybe they shouldn’t have made Dunks an offer when they didn’t have the intention or the draft assets to seriously settle the deal. It’s Essendon all over again and the club absolutely has my full support to take it all the way to the end even if he leaves for nothing, I would rather that than accept such a terrible deal.

it’s the only sensible option. We help a premiership window team and get **** all in return or we help North or Hawthorn who aren’t in our premiership cycle at the moment and get **** all. I know where I’d be sending him to our best strategic advantage….

Welcome to North Melbourne big fella.

 

[Barking Mad]

As much as these 2 picks will be nice... the players we select could end up a bust anyways.

Might end up “bust” but on the other hand we could get a Kieren Collins and Richard Tambling and full 2 needs

 

[Libba39]

I’m a person who thinks it’s pretty stupid to send a player to the PSD and get nothing.
In this case though I think we should, and I’d be cool with it.

Sometimes in life you have to take the loss, and then walk away with your head held high.

Sam Power would be considered negligent if this was to happen. Surely getting a future R1 (yes very unlikely to be a high pick) and P21 is better than getting nothing except for some stupid sense of stubborn pride???

At the end of the day we knew he wanted to leave and needed to be better prepared for this.

 

[Doggy]

Sam Power would be considered negligent if this was to happen. Surely getting a future R1 (yes very unlikely to be a high pick) and P21 is better than getting nothing except for some stupid sense of stubborn pride???

At the end of the day we knew he wanted to leave and needed to be better prepared for this.

So Brisbane is acting in good faith and we're prepared for their father sons?

They weren't.

The dogs have been able to get deals done while compromised the last few drafts but Brisbane are trying to have their cake and eat it too while presenting insulting offers.

The dogs need to hold firm

I don't think you realise it's not just F1 and 21 for Dunkley.

They also want 30 and 39 back.

So Dunkley is rated as a second rounder to them.

It's negligent to accept that rubbish

 

[maddog37]

Sam Power would be considered negligent if this was to happen. Surely getting a future R1 (yes very unlikely to be a high pick) and P21 is better than getting nothing except for some stupid sense of stubborn pride???

At the end of the day we knew he wanted to leave and needed to be better prepared for this.

What would you suggest?

 

[The Inbetweener]

I’m a person who thinks it’s pretty stupid to send a player to the PSD and get nothing.
In this case though I think we should, and I’d be cool with it.

Sometimes in life you have to take the loss, and then walk away with your head held high.

There are certainly times we you have to take an L. We did it last year with Lipinski and Young

But you absolutely don’t do it with A grade talent.

In this instance we aren’t even talking about getting picks. They are offering us pick upgrades.

Nowhere near adequate for a player of Dunkley’s level. Dunkley has tried to bail twice, so I’m sure there’s not a heap of good will on our side to get him to Brisbane out of the goodness of our hearts.

I’d be prepared to dig heels in all the way, this whole thing about us needing to meet their deadline of the offer gets worse only amplifies that. although I’m sure Power is a more rationale man than me.

 

[Northernsoul74]

Sam Power would be considered negligent if this was to happen. Surely getting a future R1 (yes very unlikely to be a high pick) and P21 is better than getting nothing except for some stupid sense of stubborn pride???

At the end of the day we knew he wanted to leave and needed to be better prepared for this.

The board have reportedly endorsed it so no he won’t be considered negligent.

 

[Doggies_13]

Sam Power would be considered negligent if this was to happen. Surely getting a future R1 (yes very unlikely to be a high pick) and P21 is better than getting nothing except for some stupid sense of stubborn pride???

At the end of the day we knew he wanted to leave and needed to be better prepared for this.

So the next player that wants out you just take the deal?

Let’s say naughts asks to go next year and is OOC we get offered pick 50 cause we have shown we will just take the deal.

It’s the long term effects as to why you let him walk to the draft and end up where he does not want to be. Next time a team wants one of our players they make a reasonable offer.

Also you are ignoring pick 30 and 39 going out with Dunkley for that F1 and 21

 

[weltschmerz]

So Dunkley is rated as a second rounder to them.

Of note - Tom Berry, who played three games this year, went for about as much as they want to offer for Dunkley. Tanner Bruhn, a 30-gamer, is going for pick 18. Pies will ask for similar for Ollie Henry, who's a second year and in and out of the side.

 

[Dog 36]

Of note - Tom Berry, who played three games this year, went for about as much as they want to offer for Dunkley. Tanner Bruhn, a 30-gamer, is going for pick 18. Pies will ask for similar for Ollie Henry, who's a second year and in and out of the side.

Staggering to think what the market is doing and what Lions are offering.

Taranto, Berry, Bruhn etc etc have set the tone.

 

[grassman75]

Damo reckons Lobb for Dunkley should be a straight 3 way swap

I've had to skip a few pages so not sure if it's been mentioned already, but Damon's sliding doors is bloody ambiguous and Dog hating again.

It's absolute bullshit

 

[Foxman98]

Of note - Tom Berry, who played three games this year, went for about as much as they want to offer for Dunkley. Tanner Bruhn, a 30-gamer, is going for pick 18. Pies will ask for similar for Ollie Henry, who's a second year and in and out of the side.

Which is why we say **** off Lions sorry Josh get a new manager

 

[Foxman98]

I've had to skip a few pages so not sure if it's been mentioned already, but Damon's sliding doors is bloody ambiguous and Dog hating again.

It's absolute bullshit

It's literally another direct shot at Bevo

 

[dogwatch]

I’m of the view that PSD is a dumb way to go. It reeks of having a sook and getting back at Brisbane and Dunkley for the slights they’ve given us.

We need to look at the bigger picture and set moral outrage to one side. If it’s a choice between having a F1 + an early second or nothing at all give me the picks every single time. In all probability that will result in two quality players. In 2 years time when everyone has forgotten the machinations of this year’s draft we will be very glad we’ve got them.

Besides, there’s a chance (admittedly remote) that Dunks could indeed end up at Essendon via the PSD. If that were to happen how would we feel about telling Brisbane and Dunkley “that’ll teach ya” when we were so proud to have delivered that same message to Dodoro and Dunks two years ago? And now, 2 years on, they both get it done with nothing coming back for us. We’d be an absolute laughing stock. Especially on the Essendon board.

The only benefit of holding out is to stop players and other clubs thinking they can walk over us. I think that angle is overrated especially with Power doing our negotiations. He’s already earning the respect of other clubs.

I reckon Power and Brisbane will work something reasonable out. We won’t love it and we won’t win draft week but we’ll be far better off than if we walk Dunks to the PSD.

 

[weltschmerz]

The only benefit of holding out is to stop players and other clubs thinking they can walk over us. I think that angle is overrated especially with Power doing our negotiations. He’s already earning the respect of other clubs.

The other benefit is not strengthening a direct competitor's side for a bag of chips.

 

[grassman75]

Hahaha I needed a good laugh.

Yet Dunkley is worth sweet FA apparently. This whole thing is a circus

 

[RSully14]

Sam Power would be considered negligent if this was to happen. Surely getting a future R1 (yes very unlikely to be a high pick) and P21 is better than getting nothing except for some stupid sense of stubborn pride???

At the end of the day we knew he wanted to leave and needed to be better prepared for this.

I get where you are coming from, but in the industry you don't want to be viewed as "weak" or easily pushed around. The dogs and Power standing strong here and not taking a crap undercut deal would be better for the club as an organization rather than getting cheated.

 

[Foxman98]

I’m of the view that PSD is a dumb way to go. It reeks of having a sook and getting back at Brisbane and Dunkley for the slights they’ve given us.

We need to look at the bigger picture and set moral outrage to one side. If it’s a choice between having a F1 + an early second or nothing at all give me the picks every single time. In all probability that will result in two quality players. In 2 years time when everyone has forgotten the machinations of this year’s draft we will be very glad we’ve got them.

Besides, there’s a chance (admittedly remote) that Dunks could indeed end up at Essendon via the PSD. If that were to happen how would we feel about telling Brisbane and Dunkley “that’ll teach ya” when we were so proud to have delivered that same message to Dodoro and Dunks two years ago? And now, 2 years on, they both get it done with nothing coming back for us. We’d be an absolute laughing stock. Especially on the Essendon board.

The only benefit of holding out is to stop players and other clubs thinking they can walk over us. I think that angle is overrated especially with Power doing our negotiations. He’s already earning the respect of other clubs.

I reckon Power and Brisbane will work something reasonable out. We won’t love it and we won’t win draft week but we’ll be far better off than if we walk Dunks to the PSD.

No it reeks of we won't be ****ed around.

I'd rather pay a 1st rounder to not massively upgrade a premiership rival

 

[Islanddoggy]

So the next player that wants out you just take the deal?

Let’s say naughts asks to go next year and is OOC we get offered pick 50 cause we have shown we will just take the deal.

It’s the long term effects as to why you let him walk to the draft and end up where he does not want to be. Next time a team wants one of our players they make a reasonable offer.

Also you are ignoring pick 30 and 39 going out with Dunkley for that F1 and 21

and a future 3rd! it was that bad an offer

 

[Doggy]

I’m of the view that PSD is a dumb way to go. It reeks of having a sook and getting back at Brisbane and Dunkley for the slights they’ve given us.

We need to look at the bigger picture and set moral outrage to one side. If it’s a choice between having a F1 + an early second or nothing at all give me the picks every single time. In all probability that will result in two quality players. In 2 years time when everyone has forgotten the machinations of this year’s draft we will be very glad we’ve got them.

Besides, there’s a chance (admittedly remote) that Dunks could indeed end up at Essendon via the PSD. If that were to happen how would we feel about telling Brisbane and Dunkley “that’ll teach ya” when we were so proud to have delivered that same message to Dodoro and Dunks two years ago? And now, 2 years on, they both get it done with nothing coming back for us. We’d be an absolute laughing stock. Especially on the Essendon board.

The only benefit of holding out is to stop players and other clubs thinking they can walk over us. I think that angle is overrated especially with Power doing our negotiations. He’s already earning the respect of other clubs.

I reckon Power and Brisbane will work something reasonable out. We won’t love it and we won’t win draft week but we’ll be far better off than if we walk Dunks to the PSD.

The problem is what Brisbane want going back the other way

Remove our second rounders and it may get done.

Paying for their father sons is not our responsibility

 

[dogwatch]

I get where you are coming from, but in the industry you don't want to be viewed as "weak" or easily pushed around. The dogs and Power standing strong here and not taking a crap undercut deal would be better for the club as an organization rather than getting cheated.

Dodoro is “strong” but I’d rather someone who still gets deals done without selling out.

 

[Doggies_13]

and a future 3rd! it was that bad an offer

The future third was the first offer.

First offer pick 15 and future first for
Dunkley 30, 39 and future third

Now it is
Pick 21 and future first for
Dunkley 30 and 39

 

[hutchy31]

I’m of the view that PSD is a dumb way to go. It reeks of having a sook and getting back at Brisbane and Dunkley for the slights they’ve given us.

We need to look at the bigger picture and set moral outrage to one side. If it’s a choice between having a F1 + an early second or nothing at all give me the picks every single time. In all probability that will result in two quality players. In 2 years time when everyone has forgotten the machinations of this year’s draft we will be very glad we’ve got them.

Besides, there’s a chance (admittedly remote) that Dunks could indeed end up at Essendon via the PSD. If that were to happen how would we feel about telling Brisbane and Dunkley “that’ll teach ya” when we were so proud to have delivered that same message to Dodoro and Dunks two years ago? And now, 2 years on, they both get it done with nothing coming back for us. We’d be an absolute laughing stock. Especially on the Essendon board.

The only benefit of holding out is to stop players and other clubs thinking they can walk over us. I think that angle is overrated especially with Power doing our negotiations. He’s already earning the respect of other clubs.

I reckon Power and Brisbane will work something reasonable out. We won’t love it and we won’t win draft week but we’ll be far better off than if we walk Dunks to the PSD.

That's a pretty rational argument, and I'm sure you're right about how it will end up. There is one other benefit though, in terms of not strengthening a direct competitor. I just don't want one of the better teams, one who we'll hopefully be in competition with for top four/finals, getting stronger while we're getting weaker and paying unders at the same time. God forbid he has an excellent game in a final against the dogs and helps get them over the line while we're staring at an untried rookie and pick 17-18 in 2023. At that stage having him languishing in a bottom six side will look damn attractive.

But that's unlikely to come to pass, and I'd bet that a deal does get done - like you've said. It'll likely be a difficult one to swallow though.

 

[weltschmerz]

The future third was the first offer.

First offer pick 15 and future first for
Dunkley 30, 39 and future third

Now it is
Pick 21 and future first for
Dunkley 30 and 39

"You thought our first offer was unders? Here's our second offer - even worse unders"