Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[threenewpadlocks]

Salem who’s spent all of one single game in the midfield rotations? Nah

He did it in R1 and the pre-season too? Like it's in the very stats that you yourself posted?

 

[doggies ftw]

He did it in R1 and the pre-season too? Like it's in the very stats that you yourself posted?

Yeah, one single real game before our game

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Yeah, one single real game before our game

Okay. But if you were to line up him and any of West, Weightman, Harmes, Gallagher, Sanders etc. this weekend, you would think that he isn't a better midfielder than any of them? Irrespective of how long he's been playing there?

 

[doggies ftw]

Okay. But if you were to line up him and any of West, Weightman, Harmes, Gallagher, Sanders etc. this weekend, you would think that he isn't a better midfielder than any of them? Irrespective of how long he's been playing there?

You’re always rambling on about exposed form and now you’re not because it doesn’t suit you?

How about the multi AA midfielder we didn’t play? Daniel was a better midfielder just last year, Harmes has more exposed form as a midfielder and is what we specifically brought him to the club for, Cody spent significant time there all preseason, Sanders yes, West probably yes if he was to ever be given a chance.

Ask Melbourne supporters what they think of Salem they don’t rate him one bit. It doesn’t matter whose the better player - Melbourne understand the need for rotations, if it wasn’t Salem taking significant inside minutes it would be someone else. It doesn’t matter if our 4th best midfielder is flipping Alex Keath if that’s the team we’ve picked then they need to take significant midfield rotations. It’s complete bullshit.

 

[Golden_6]

Okay. But if you were to line up him and any of West, Weightman, Harmes, Gallagher, Sanders etc. this weekend, you would think that he isn't a better midfielder than any of them? Irrespective of how long he's been playing there?

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. Salem isn't that good. Melbourne identified that they needed another midfielder given they lost some depth and identified a role change for someone that can assist their stars.

That's the point we're trying to argue. Why can't we do the same?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

You’re always rambling on about exposed form and now you’re not because it doesn’t suit you?

How about the multi AA midfielder we didn’t play? Daniel was a better midfielder just last year, Harmes has more exposed form as a midfielder and is what we specifically brought him to the club for, Cody spent significant time there all preseason, Sanders yes, West probably yes if he was to ever be given a chance.

Ask Melbourne supporters what they think of Salem they don’t rate him one bit. It doesn’t matter whose the better player - Melbourne understand the need for rotations, if it wasn’t Salem taking significant inside minutes it would be someone else. It doesn’t matter if our 4th best midfielder is *ing Alex Keath if that’s the team we’ve picked then they need to take significant midfield rotations. It’s complete bullshit.

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. Salem isn't that good. Melbourne identified that they needed another midfielder given they lost some depth and identified a role change for someone that can assist their stars.

That's the point we're trying to argue. Why can't we do the same?

Right, this is a fair enough viewpoint. But at the same time I think it's an over-reaction to unique events that unfolded over the course of a single game - specifically Harmes playing a terrible game and Sanders blowing up physically, rather than an issue to be expected to be ongoing. Should Bevo have had a plan D or Z or whatever you want to call it in action, rather than waiting until e.g. the last quarter to give Gallagher 3 CBAs? Should we have given greater probability pre-match to Harmes and Sanders playing the games that they did? Perhaps, but in any case in my view it's a pretty harsh criticism. You can't expect any coach to prepare for a plan D for every unlikely eventuality.

If Sanders has the capability to play 50% of the game's centre bounces next week, all of the discussions of problems and solutions become moot. It's not as if it was a humungous problem in 2023 for us - Bont, Libba and Treloar were 5th, 16th and 17th for CBA% last year. It's not as if they were rank 1, 2, and 5 or whatever in 2023.

 

[BrisDog]

Yes he was sent home early from the Qld pre season camp.

Any idea why B Smith was sent home early mate?

 

[doggies ftw]

Right, this is a fair enough viewpoint. But at the same time I think it's an over-reaction to unique events that unfolded over the course of a single game - specifically Harmes playing a terrible game and Sanders blowing up physically, rather than an issue to be expected to be ongoing. Should Bevo have had a plan D or Z or whatever you want to call it in action, rather than waiting until e.g. the last quarter to give Gallagher 3 CBAs? Should we have given greater probability pre-match to Harmes and Sanders playing the games that they did? Perhaps, but in any case in my view it's a pretty harsh criticism. You can't expect any coach to prepare for a plan D for every unlikely eventuality.

If Sanders has the capability to play 50% of the game's centre bounces next week, all of the discussions of problems and solutions become moot. It's not as if it was a humungous problem in 2023 for us - Bont, Libba and Treloar were 5th, 16th and 17th for CBA% last year. It's not as if they were rank 1, 2, and 5 or whatever in 2023.

Fair enough there may have been extenuating circumstances we didn’t expect like Sanders not being able to run out the game. But I still would have given Harmes more of a chance to prove himself - we can’t just say oh he started poorly we can’t trust him, no we specifically targeted him & brought him in as a centre bounce rotation, give him a chance to improve on the start of his first game at the club surely?

After these things happened we still should have been adaptable and tried Cody (trained all preseason as a rotation), West etc anything! Until we finally did with Gags when the game was over. This goes back to another key weakness people see in Bev, no adaptability. You have to be able to make in game decisions on the fly, we do not.

If it was genuinely a one off and all is well brilliant, I’ll be the first to admit I was wrong - fact is though the sample size is bigger than one game and this is something a lot of people have been complaining about for quite some time now so much so that the club clearly targeted this in the offseason, and over the preseason, then went completely away from it after 1 single qtr!!! It’s all to familiar

 

[doggies ftw]

West took 11 CBAs last season, all in one game, in that game - 24 touches at 75%, 4 clearances, 5 tackles 7 SI and a goal assist. This happened one game ago, not 3 years ago.

Plus was one of the very few showing any hunger or enthusiasm on the weekend. Now I don’t think he’s a starting midfielder and I really like his role forward of the ball, but in a game like that on the weekend when your rotation mids are not available (Macrae/CD) or struggling (Sanders/Harmes)…

How wildly incompetent do you have to be to not make that change in game? Screams Bevo has made his mind up West is not a midfielder so reluctant to be proven wrong tbh.

 

[Mojorisin]

Any idea why B Smith was sent home early mate?

Didn't want to post on here about it because of the delicate subject matter but as it's being turned around to look like something more nefarious I want to add context.
Smith is training away from the group due to the difficulties of feeling 'Stuck' in the rehab group. It's hard when training every day is your escape from the outside world and all of a sudden that gets taken away from you. Distance in this case is purely a mutual beneficial scenario so Baz can focus solely on getting his knee right and train in a way that will get him back to play as soon as possible without over doing things. As previously stated Smith will have other roles to keep him ingrained in the club but day to day training isn't a suitable place at the moment. Once he ramps up and is closer to a return he will get back out on the track with the boys.

 

[hatescaptcha]

Keep Marra & Smith - Match & Trade English.
Darcy coming in quick and needs that number 1 ruck role.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[3rdgenbulldog]

Keep Marra & Smith - Match & Trade English.
Darcy coming in quick and needs that number 1 ruck role.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Agreed better club blokes

 

[Doggies7]

So happy to keep Jamarra, would prefer long term but even a short term commitment for now is great, and pretty understandable. I hope it's 4 years at least though to really lock him away for now and not worry about this again next year.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

Mate they won't stop, they'll just pivot to some crap about the big clubs/mega deals are already waiting for him at the end of this deal bla bla bla.

This stuff is their bread & butter these days.

For example, look at Gettable - talking about any player coming out of contract, who might be thinking of chasing him, which clubs he'd suit, what sort of deal might be considered...

All pi** & wind about wild hypotheticals, 90%+ that will never eventuate. It's a golden ticket for anyone with an opinion, as:

1) Supporters read it, talk about it, fear the loss of their player, worry about their club's onfield future and stability.

2) Player managers go to the club(s) armed with "media reports" hoping to drive up their players price'and length of contract.



Deadset media/manager gravy train, and an unintended consequence of Free Agency and the increase in player movement.

It will never stop because all players come out of contract at some point.

It's also a major factor in the ever increasing lengths of contracts for top-end players these days. Clubs are trying to quieten the noise around their stars.

I hope JUH signs a 10 year contract, not because it's intrinsically a good idea, but it will shut the JUH media circus up.

 

[Smiley Boy]

Been Reported on Gettable that the club have offered Bailey Smith a 2 year contract extension

Said that a while back whether hr accepts is another thing lol

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

This stuff is their bread & butter these days.

For example, look at Gettable - talking about any player coming out of contract, who might be thinking of chasing him, which clubs he'd suit, what sort of deal might be considered...

All pi** & wind about wild hypotheticals, 90%+ that will never eventuate. It's a golden ticket for anyone with an opinion, as:

1) Supporters read it, talk about it, fear the loss of their player, worry about their club's onfield future and stability.

2) Player managers go to the club(s) armed with "media reports" hoping to drive up their players price'and length of contract.



Deadset media/manager gravy train, and an unintended consequence of Free Agency and the increase in player movement.

It will never stop because all players come out of contract at some point.

It's also a major factor in the ever increasing lengths of contracts for top-end players these days. Clubs are trying to quieten the noise around their stars.

I hope JUH signs a 10 year contract, not because it's intrinsically a good idea, but it will shut the JUH media circus up.

They are getting PAID to churn out this neverending tripe. Anyone wanting a change of career could do worse than to go into “sports journalism”

 

[threenewpadlocks]

They are getting PAID to churn out this neverending tripe. Anyone wanting a change of career could do worse than to go into “sports journalism”

I've had conversations with people involved in digital sports media and these sorts of articles/conent gets clicks and viewers that blow all of the other types out of the water. There's no reason why the AFL has to treat the AFL media department as commercially as possible, but they are.

 

[Dazb86]

West took 11 CBAs last season, all in one game, in that game - 24 touches at 75%, 4 clearances, 5 tackles 7 SI and a goal assist. This happened one game ago, not 3 years ago.

Plus was one of the very few showing any hunger or enthusiasm on the weekend. Now I don’t think he’s a starting midfielder and I really like his role forward of the ball, but in a game like that on the weekend when your rotation mids are not available (Macrae/CD) or struggling (Sanders/Harmes)…

How wildly incompetent do you have to be to not make that change in game? Screams Bevo has made his mind up West is not a midfielder so reluctant to be proven wrong tbh.

I'm admittedly a massive West fan. Would love to see him getting some midfield minutes. Nearly every game he plays his attack on the contest gets us out of a bad situation and into a good one. Just wins so many 50/50 or worse situations.

 

[Anja_Nees]

I agree with your sentiments in regards to Baz and English. But I think Jamarra leaving would be heartbreaking for a lot of our supporters. For as long as I’ve been a supporter of the club I can’t think of an indigenous player we’ve produced that’s been a superstar. And also being a key forward and having the potential to be the best KPF in the game. Seeing him leave would be extremely upsetting.

I’d have him up there with the Bont in terms of potential. We never lost someone like that. Taking nothing away from Ward, Harbrow and Griffin.

JUH would definitely be upsetting and morale deflating if it happened right now.It’s more that if an individual goes it’s never the end of the world.

The likelihood is at some point we’ll lose one or two of the players being speculated about, whether to $$ now or Tassie down the track. Has never killed us.

 

[Anja_Nees]

I'm admittedly a massive West fan. Would love to see him getting some midfield minutes. Nearly every game he plays his attack on the contest gets us out of a bad situation and into a good one. Just wins so many 50/50 or worse situations.

Has always seemed odd to me that we willingly parted with a pick in the 20s to draft him, with him having been a midfielder all the way through, but are now allergic to him having a run through the middle.

He’s definitely a solid forward on his day. Maybe the concern is his pace when the ball gets out. When we’re crying out for a younger mid to join the mix I don’t get it.

 

[Pocket Terrace]

West took 11 CBAs last season, all in one game, in that game - 24 touches at 75%, 4 clearances, 5 tackles 7 SI and a goal assist. This happened one game ago, not 3 years ago.

Plus was one of the very few showing any hunger or enthusiasm on the weekend. Now I don’t think he’s a starting midfielder and I really like his role forward of the ball, but in a game like that on the weekend when your rotation mids are not available (Macrae/CD) or struggling (Sanders/Harmes)…

How wildly incompetent do you have to be to not make that change in game? Screams Bevo has made his mind up West is not a midfielder so reluctant to be proven wrong tbh.

The irony in all of this is the early years Bevo mantra of players needing to be able to play practically anywhere, in the event they need to be moved around mid-game due to injuries or needing a tactical change-up. We saw some rogue shit for a few years.

These days we generally just see the same players in the same roles for a whole game. There is very little evidence of a secondary role for the vast majority of players.

If Naughton can’t get a sniff or is being controlled by someone like May (or Collins this weekend), put him on the ball for 5 minutes to break things up a bit. It’s gotta be better than Easton Wood the key forward which was apparently worth trying.

 

[Anja_Nees]

The irony in all of this is the early years Bevo mantra of players needing to be able to play practically anywhere, in the event they need to be moved around mid-game due to injuries or needing a tactical change-up. We saw some rogue s**t for a few years.

These days we generally just see the same players in the same roles for a whole game. There is very little evidence of a secondary role for the vast majority of players.

If Naughton can’t get a sniff or is being controlled by someone like May (or Collins this weekend), put him on the ball for 5 minutes to break things up a bit. It’s gotta be better than Easton Wood the key forward which was apparently worth trying.

The flip side of our frustration with Dunkley and Cordy getting thrown in the ruck is that the solution has been Lobb. He is actually tall enough but doesn’t offer much elsewhere most of the time.

I sometimes wonder if it’s worth throwing Naughton in there. His agility and intensity might sort of work there and we could have an extra small. Suspect they see the risk of injury being too high.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

So happy to keep Jamarra, would prefer long term but even a short term commitment for now is great, and pretty understandable. I hope it's 4 years at least though to really lock him away for now and not worry about this again next year.

I guess the positive if shorter is he won't be a free agent when he come out so we'd have to be offered a huge deal to agree.

 

[Golden_6]

If this keeps going, which side are we sending Jacko to for a 3rd rounder?

 

[Mojorisin]

If this keeps going, which side are we sending Jacko to for a 3rd rounder?

At this rate we will have to send a second rounder with him.