Opinion Travis Varcoe

Assuming Varcoe is worth pick 10 in any draft, would you trade him?

  • Yes

    Votes: 48 39.7%

  • No

    Votes: 30 24.8%

  • Get stuffed Meto

    Votes: 43 35.5%
  • Total voters
    121

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darren forssman said:
no, often he is not under much, if any, pressure....he just doesnt want the ball (could be psychological due to injuries or that miss in the prelim, who knows).
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Well,
we all see things differently at times.
You are right,
I am wrong.
But , I'm not convinced.
 

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Whit3y said:
so its hot for varcoe? and not hot for others say guthrie?
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Because he (Varcoe) won't go in!.....that's all it's about, and that's why he doesn't do enough, never! Skirts the packs like a seagull, you watch this week you can't miss it, soft player.
Leaves all the hard stuff to others, that's why we couldn't trade him, the other clubs know and they don't want that.

Put Guthrie on the trade table and they'd tear the front door down.
 
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lwmorton3121 said:
The reason number of games played comes into it is that it indicates whether or not you can expect a player to improve, and how much. We wouldn't crucify Bews if he followed up his great debut with a sub par second game, because he's new to AFL level football, Travis Varcoe is not. You can get away with playing cameos and showing flash early on in your career because it's expected that consistency comes with maturity. However it reaches a point of diminishing returns, where the investment in games where you don't fully contribute to the side is no longer worth the potential to be a gun. Stokes was getting to that point then he completely turned his career around. Can Varcoe do that, I'm not convinced, partially because he's clearly treated with kid gloves by the match committee.
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Potential to improve comes into it when you are picking your squads each season. It has nothing to do with picking a team that needs to win to keep its spot in the top four this week. Potential to improve in the future doesn't help you win the game this week one bit.

Varcoe has potential to improve anyway as we have already seen him play much better than what he has been. Age and experience aren't the only factors that determine whether a player can be better than what he is putting out there at the moment.
 
Whit3y said:
so its hot for varcoe? and not hot for others say guthrie?
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Guthrie is tagging, getting the ball off players, Varcoe is trying to get the hot ball from players like Guthrie??
You need both types.
But Guthrie is a beauty, composed, assured, clean.
 
Seeds said:
Potential to improve comes into it when you are picking your squads each season. It has nothing to do with picking a team that needs to win to keep its spot in the top four this week. Potential to improve in the future doesn't help you win the game this week one bit.
Varcoe has potential to improve anyway as we have already seen him play much better than what he has been. Age and experience aren't the only factors that determine whether a player can be better than what he is putting out there at the moment.
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With his age and experience there's no excuse, any decent form was 5-6 years ago, you find form in the two's, senior footy should be that serious or are we that amateurish.

Vdubs, you must have a shrine in your spare room.
 
Vdubs said:
Guthrie is tagging, getting the ball off players, Varcoe is trying to get the hot ball from players like Guthrie??
You need both types.
But Guthrie is a beauty, composed, assured, clean.
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Correct, you need both types. People cannot seem to grasp that he's just a pure outside player. If the coaching staff wanted him to be crashing packs and getting his head kicked in i'm sure they would be putting the pressure on him to do it. He's playing a role - to what degree he's playing it is up for debate obviously - however as i said earlier for all the heat he cops on this forum he's 4th for goals and 3rd for tackles in the team. Which for a small forward (which again this week is listed on the HFF) is all you can ask. What else do we want him to do other than kick goals and apply forward pressure? People are arguing that he get's on the end of other peoples hard work, maybe, but he IS getting on the end and finishing...
 
Trav is a limited player with no aerial skills to speak of and weak in contested ball. He also lacks the spatial awareness / poise to prop and evade while assessing options around him.

Offensively, he's more the link in the chain. A natural receiver, he's a handy outlet around a scrimmage that can make a mad dash towards goal and with any luck execute a neat kick to a leading forward. He's also a bit of an opportunist around goals with the ability to find space.

Defensively he seems to play his role within team rules/structures. With pace to burn, his pressure acts are generally quite good. With dodgy shoulders, he has trouble "sticking" tackles but nevertheless can force an opponent into an erroneous disposal.

He's the archetypical headless chook that runs at 100% full pace; speed and a reasonable sidestep are his main currency.

At 26 years of age, this is more or less all we can expect from Trav with significant further development unlikely.
 
Of interest to me and I'm sure to the MC (I know others will be keen to dismiss), Varcoe is ranked in the top 18 at the club for averages in all of these categories:

Disposals (15th)
Disposal eff % (14th)
Tackles (4th)
1%ers (18th)
Bounces (10th)
Inside 50s (9th)
Goals (equal 6th)

Just on those objective measures you're going to be hard pressed to argue that any VFL available player is going to be able to replicate or better that. Particularly so when his role is likely to put significant emphasis on pressure acts (*dog whistle*), tackles and goals.
 
Vdubs said:
Guthrie is tagging, getting the ball off players, Varcoe is trying to get the hot ball from players like Guthrie??
You need both types.
But Guthrie is a beauty, composed, assured, clean.
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Hopefully not for too much longer. I think we should try to develop one of the 'less talented' players, such has Sherringham or T. Hunt as our tagger. I just think Guthrie can offer us far too much offensively to 'waste' him as a tagger.

I was very happy to see Guthrie against Fremantle getting the one-twos, and receiving the little releasing handball from a player who has taken a mark/gotten a free kick. I want the ball in Guthrie's hands as often as possible.
 

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catempire said:
Of interest to me and I'm sure to the MC (I know others will be keen to dismiss), Varcoe is ranked in the top 18 at the club for averages in all of these categories:

Disposals (15th)
Disposal eff % (14th)
Tackles (4th)
1%ers (18th)
Bounces (10th)
Inside 50s (9th)
Goals (equal 6th)

Just on those objective measures you're going to be hard pressed to argue that any VFL available player is going to be able to replicate or better that. Particularly so when his role is likely to put significant emphasis on pressure acts (*dog whistle*), tackles and goals.
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I'm sure this might have been asked before but when can one find these pressure acts stats?

I wouldn't mind having a look at them but, for the life of me, I can't find anything (I'm thinking they are tucked away somewhere by Champion Data).

I thought 1%ers (which I assume are things like smothers & sheppards) and Tackles formed part of pressure acts but it appears they are being separated out.

Very curious to see them as I'm having trouble finding the data on it and it is coming up a bit.
 
The Pivotonian said:
I'm sure this might have been asked before but when can one find these pressure acts stats?

I wouldn't mind having a look at them but, for the life of me, I can't find anything (I'm thinking they are tucked away somewhere by Champion Data).

I thought 1%ers (which I assume are things like smothers & sheppards) and Tackles formed part of pressure acts but it appears they are being separated out.

Very curious to see them as I'm having trouble finding the data on it and it is coming up a bit.
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I've only seen them in the dead tree version of the paper. They don't seem to be anywhere online.
 
catempire said:
I've only seen them in the dead tree version of the paper. They don't seem to be anywhere online.
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OK, thanks.

I'll keep digging. Very interested in getting a better handle on them.
 
The Pivotonian said:
Thanks, my main problem is not really knowing how these acts are defined.

Right now, all I have is my idea of what a pressure act is and that may be very different to what is being captured.
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From: http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/afl/pressure-the-coaches-buzzword/story-e6frepf6-1226025761152

...whether physical or implied pressure.

A player will score a point for a physical pressure act when he lays an effective tackle or lays a hand on the opposition ball carrier as he tries to get the ball away.

With implied pressure being tracked for the first time, the ability to corral an opponent will be rewarded.

Players chasing an opponent from behind, forcing them to hurriedly dispose of the ball, also will be rewarded with a "pressure act".
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I've got the answer, "if you want to improve Trav", try putting your head over the ball, that way I'm certain you'll improve! Fat chance.
 
catempire said:
From: http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/afl/pressure-the-coaches-buzzword/story-e6frepf6-1226025761152
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Thanks, Teriyakicat supplied me the same article just then as well (as she is tracking the pressure acts).

It is a little different to what I was thinking, especially the corralling one.

I've watched Ablett get "coralled" before but he didn't seem to be under much pressure.

Interesting.

Again, thanks for digging it up. Gives me a better idea about it when it comes up.
 
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The Pivotonian said:
Thanks, Teriyakicat supplied me the same article just then as well (as she is tracking the pressure acts).

It is a little different to what I was thinking, especuially the corralling one.

I've watched Ablett get "coralled" before but he didn't seem to be under much pressure.

Interesting.

Again, thanks for digging it up. Gives me a better idea about it when it comes up.
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You might be interested in knowing that the Player Ratings use Champion Data's Pressure Act stats ;)


"Every time a player is involved in a passage of play he has the chance to accrue points. But rather than his score being a simple tally of his possessions, marks, tackles, hit-outs, free-kicks and scores, his performance is measured using a system called Equity Ratings. The system determines where and how a player influences a contest and whether the player's effort then results in a positive result for his team. Equity Ratings includes what coaches love to describe as "pressure acts". As a result, players are rewarded for interrupting opposition passages of play as well as setting up scores for their own team."
 
Berserker26 said:
Supercoach gold? Would that have them?
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I've only googled randomly, quoting pressure act stats, etc. with no luck. Had a brainwave this morning that I could find the origin of them from Champion Data so will have another hunt. It just seems weird that they're not listed anywhere. We do have them in the Sunday Times in WA but, if Geelong play on the Sunday, we don't see them at all!
 

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Opinion Travis Varcoe

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