Society/Culture "Triggering" and whose responsibility is it

[Crankyhawk]

So I am starting to encounter people in my line of work who ask/ insist that you don't talk to them in a certain way, broach certain topics, or they will get "triggered". Usually this triggering manifests as fairly dysregulated behaviour/ violence, so understandable that we would want to avoid this.

But it got me thinking

We currently look at the "look what you made me do" argument (typically advanced by those practising family violence) as being abhorrent bullshit.

Yet those who get triggered then blame us for "triggering them". Should they not be aiming to reduce their own responses? Only they can be the ones who control their actions. I submit the triggering party should only feel responsibility if they knew it was a trigger and still deliberately set out to inflame it, though perhaps even this could be seen to be assuming too much.

 

[faible]

So I am starting to encounter people in my line of work who ask/ insist that you don't talk to them in a certain way, broach certain topics, or they will get "triggered". Usually this triggering manifests as fairly dysregulated behaviour/ violence, so understandable that we would want to avoid this.

But it got me thinking

We currently look at the "look what you made me do" argument (typically advanced by those practising family violence) as being abhorrent bullshit.

Yet those who get triggered then blame us for "triggering them". Should they not be aiming to reduce their own responses? Only they can be the ones who control their actions. I submit the triggering party should only feel responsibility if they knew it was a trigger and still deliberately set out to inflame it, though perhaps even this could be seen to be assuming too much.

Probably needs a little more context to answer this, but most likely it's a little of both.

Plenty of people have been in situations that are traumatic to them, that you wouldn't bring up as a discussion topic in front of that person. If someone you knew had been sexually assaulted, you probably wouldn't bring up sexual assault or make jokes about it in front of them. I think we'd all consider that pretty acceptable.

If you're talking about situations where certain discussions might be appropriate e.g. in a medical setting it very well might be relevant to raise uncomfortable topics or ask certain questions that could be viewed as triggering even though you know it would be triggering. In an academic setting it might be appropriate to discuss difficult or challenging topics even if - and perhaps especially if - it's a topic that would trigger someone.

 

[burge13]

As long as you're not deliberately winding them up it's 100% on them to control their emotions and handle adult/difficult conversations like adults.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Probably needs a little more context to answer this, but most likely it's a little of both.

Plenty of people have been in situations that are traumatic to them, that you wouldn't bring up as a discussion topic in front of that person. If someone you knew had been sexually assaulted, you probably wouldn't bring up sexual assault or make jokes about it in front of them. I think we'd all consider that pretty acceptable.

If you're talking about situations where certain discussions might be appropriate e.g. in a medical setting it very well might be relevant to raise uncomfortable topics or ask certain questions that could be viewed as triggering even though you know it would be triggering. In an academic setting it might be appropriate to discuss difficult or challenging topics even if - and perhaps especially if - it's a topic that would trigger someone.

So the context was partly medical, in that a patient who attended for mental health admission, stated that he didn't want to be physically examined because it would be triggering; but this runs against the hospital mental health ward policy of needing "medical clearance" (which is a whole different bugbear). We did manage to work around it, (basically didn't do the physical exam but documented that he was able to talk, had no obvious breathing difficulty and could walk steadily) but it just got me thinking (I think because there was a lot of commentary around "look what you made me do" at the time (mentioned in the Israel-Hamas thread)

 

[evolved2]

So the context was partly medical, in that a patient who attended for mental health admission, stated that he didn't want to be physically examined because it would be triggering; but this runs against the hospital mental health ward policy of needing "medical clearance" (which is a whole different bugbear). We did manage to work around it, (basically didn't do the physical exam but documented that he was able to talk, had no obvious breathing difficulty and could walk steadily) but it just got me thinking (I think because there was a lot of commentary around "look what you made me do" at the time (mentioned in the Israel-Hamas thread)

I don't see how the Israel-Palestine conflict is a valid comparison to mental health patients not providing consent to physical examination.

If someone doesn't want your professional help, you can only work within the boundaries of what they provide consent to. For a similar workplace example, fire wardens are instructed to leave people be who ignore their instructions, and report it up the chain.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I don't see how the Israel-Palestine conflict is a valid comparison to mental health patients not providing consent to physical examination.

If someone doesn't want your professional help, you can only work within the boundaries of what they provide consent to. For a similar workplace example, fire wardens are instructed to leave people be who ignore their instructions, and report it up the chain.

It was more that in the thread (Israel Palestine) the “look what you made me do” (Israel response to Hamas) was seen similar to how an abusive partner would blame the victim for “making them act out”. Which seemed to me to have parallels to triggering.

 

[Rotayjay]

I'm a leftist, yet the 'trigger' stuff is starting to get on my nerves. I believe the concept has always existed, but I only first heard the term 'trigger' used in this way about ten years ago. Giving something a name legitimises it.

By all means be respectful of other peoples' backgrounds and feelings. However I think we're entering dangerous territory when we're tiptoeing around things and not having a quality discussion because someone can't handle hearing words that can bring no physical harm.

At the same time, has someone being triggered or telling me about their triggers ever had a negative impact on me? No.

 

[Gethelred]

I think there's several layers to it.

There are certain things that can and will cause certain reactions in people who have experienced trauma. You cannot know what will 'trigger' that reaction in you until it happens.

When I first discovered the SRP, I was unemployed, in around my third year of being unemployed. I stumbled onto the politics part of this forum, and opened a series of different threads; one of those threads was the Dole thread. After reading a few pages, I read a post that had me absolutely livid, beyond angry and into sheer fury. Bear in mind, if that poster had said what they had posted to my face in that moment, I was sufficiently angry enough for something to have ensued from it that I didn't know could happen from merely someone's words. I also from time to time experience panic attacks, during which I cannot see and have trouble breathing, based upon things that happen to me (events, conversations).

Now, is it the responsibility of this forum or others in my life to keep me from material that might trigger this kind of reaction? Not really; it's my responsibility to know what triggers me. But to an extent other people within society need to be fully cognisant that some subjects or some opinions need to be shared sparingly or in private to prevent adverse reactions.

There's a girl in a class I teach who has an adverse reaction to male raised voices. I was not aware of this or why it's the case until I was told by another teacher; in the time since, I have completely modified my behaviour towards her, and have completely altered her attitude towards me.

There's a meeting of both sides of it that I think needs be understood. You are responsible for remaining clear of what you know triggers you, but so too are other people careful with things that might potentially trigger other people. If someone has a spontaneous reaction to something near them, treat them with as much kindness as you can whilst calming them down.

 

[Engimal v3]

While I get what you are saying, I've never once encountered this in the real world

 

[Crankyhawk]

While I get what you are saying, I've never once encountered this in the real world

Quite possibly it is something that disproportionately affects those who are involved in health care/ education/ front line support services for social services (child protection, disability or income support)

(thats purely speculative on my end, I have no data)

 

[Crankyhawk]

I think there's several layers to it.

There are certain things that can and will cause certain reactions in people who have experienced trauma. You cannot know what will 'trigger' that reaction in you until it happens.

When I first discovered the SRP, I was unemployed, in around my third year of being unemployed. I stumbled onto the politics part of this forum, and opened a series of different threads; one of those threads was the Dole thread. After reading a few pages, I read a post that had me absolutely livid, beyond angry and into sheer fury. Bear in mind, if that poster had said what they had posted to my face in that moment, I was sufficiently angry enough for something to have ensued from it that I didn't know could happen from merely someone's words. I also from time to time experience panic attacks, during which I cannot see and have trouble breathing, based upon things that happen to me (events, conversations).

Now, is it the responsibility of this forum or others in my life to keep me from material that might trigger this kind of reaction? Not really; it's my responsibility to know what triggers me. But to an extent other people within society need to be fully cognisant that some subjects or some opinions need to be shared sparingly or in private to prevent adverse reactions.

There's a girl in a class I teach who has an adverse reaction to male raised voices. I was not aware of this or why it's the case until I was told by another teacher; in the time since, I have completely modified my behaviour towards her, and have completely altered her attitude towards me.

There's a meeting of both sides of it that I think needs be understood. You are responsible for remaining clear of what you know triggers you, but so too are other people careful with things that might potentially trigger other people. If someone has a spontaneous reaction to something near them, treat them with as much kindness as you can whilst calming them down.

That probably is the key there - to respond with kindness; including when one is triggered to try to be kind to the other person before entering the dysregulation phase (noting that this often is difficult and takes often years of support/ therapy...)

 

[ferball]

While I get what you are saying, I've never once encountered this in the real world

I've got a mate who was in Rwanda as a Peace Keeper in the 90s.

If you got to know him you'd know triggered when you saw it.

Its a bit like that old John Cleese thing - don't mention the war. If he got triggered on a night out there was a good chance he'd up in hospital or a lock up. His eyed would dilate and he'd go looking to fight anything that he didn't like or that was big enough to **** him up. He wouldn't go picking fights with smaller people or even people who were bigger but he'd have their measure. It was always people who he thought would be able to hurt him.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

I've got a mate who was in Rwanda as a Peace Keeper in the 90s.

If you got to know him you'd know triggered when you saw it.

Its a bit like that old John Cleese thing - don't mention the war. If he got triggered on a night out there was a good chance he'd up in hospital or a lock up. His eyed would dilate and he'd go looking to fight anything that he didn't like or that was big enough to * him up. He wouldn't go picking fights with smaller people or even people who were bigger but he'd have their measure. It was always people who he thought would be able to hurt him.

Yeah, this is the sort of stuff that comes to mind when I think "triggering", either people that have seen some shit or lived some shit and not just heard something they didn't like. Another common example I know if is if some highly descriptive scene of a sexual assault comes on TV and it setting off somebody who's previously been assaulted or was close to somebody has been assaulted and has developed a PTSD from those events.

So I can totally get why trigger warnings for some topics are a good idea, but for some reason a lot of dipshits have whittled the concept of triggering down to some blue haired female being told the gender pay gap isn't real or some other made up scenario where the libs get owned. That's the sort of stuff I think is referred to as never being encountered in the real world; the only thing I can think of that's remotely close is when grandparents spend the entire year posting right wing shit on facebook and then getting offended when the grandkids don't want to see them at Christmas.

 

[evolved2]

Yeah, this is the sort of stuff that comes to mind when I think "triggering", either people that have seen some s**t or lived some s**t and not just heard something they didn't like. Another common example I know if is if some highly descriptive scene of a sexual assault comes on TV and it setting off somebody who's previously been assaulted or was close to somebody has been assaulted and has developed a PTSD from those events.

So I can totally get why trigger warnings for some topics are a good idea, but for some reason a lot of dipshits have whittled the concept of triggering down to some blue haired female being told the gender pay gap isn't real or some other made up scenario where the libs get owned. That's the sort of stuff I think is referred to as never being encountered in the real world; the only thing I can think of that's remotely close is when grandparents spend the entire year posting right wing s**t on facebook and then getting offended when the grandkids don't want to see them at Christmas.

Did your grandparents trigger you?

 

[Crankyhawk]

Yeah, this is the sort of stuff that comes to mind when I think "triggering", either people that have seen some s**t or lived some s**t and not just heard something they didn't like. Another common example I know if is if some highly descriptive scene of a sexual assault comes on TV and it setting off somebody who's previously been assaulted or was close to somebody has been assaulted and has developed a PTSD from those events.

So I can totally get why trigger warnings for some topics are a good idea, but for some reason a lot of dipshits have whittled the concept of triggering down to some blue haired female being told the gender pay gap isn't real or some other made up scenario where the libs get owned. That's the sort of stuff I think is referred to as never being encountered in the real world; the only thing I can think of that's remotely close is when grandparents spend the entire year posting right wing s**t on facebook and then getting offended when the grandkids don't want to see them at Christmas.

I would say that most of the ones I can think of (in the setting I encounter) have a history of lived trauma (most often sexual assault)

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Did your grandparents trigger you?

Awww buddy have you got somebody in the family not speaking to you?

 

[evolved2]

Awww buddy have you got somebody in the family not speaking to you?

I wish!

 

[Todman]

 

[Gethelred]

Pretty sure that a) that's not at all what this thread is about, and b) you knew that before you posted it.

 

[the_interloper]

While I get what you are saying, I've never once encountered this in the real world

Me neither. I don't think people admit to being "triggered", would usually be a description by someone else.

 

[Todman]

There's a girl in a class I teach who has an adverse reaction to male raised voices. I was not aware of this or why it's the case until I was told by another teacher; in the time since, I have completely modified my behaviour towards her, and have completely altered her attitude towards me.

So you have modified your behaviour for one girl but what is the girl doing (therapy?) to fit in with the rest of your class?

 

[Gethelred]

So you have modified your behaviour for one girl but what is the girl doing (therapy?) to fit in with the rest of your class?

With respect, teachers modify instruction for all of their students.

 

[faible]

With respect, teachers modify instruction for all of their students.

Someone reckons this is hilarious. Probably thinks it's woke.

 

[Crankyhawk]

View attachment 1862044

Someone reckons this is hilarious. Probably thinks it's woke.

Or had experience with teachers that did not care enough to make the effort

 

[evolved2]

Or had experience with teachers that did not care enough to make the effort

My interpretation is that Gethelred was schooling Todman , and I thought the reply was funny.

I don't have a problem with either poster.