TSL Reserves

[stevo148]

The State-wide Reserves level of football has received a little media in the last few weeks, and their future seems to be wobbly at best.

· Should this level of football continue, and if so, how do we best support it?

· Are AFL Tasmania’s intentions too masked, or have they been clear in what their long term strategy is for the league?

· If a strategy has been clearly presented has a platform of stability to achieve this strategy been provided, or is there too much ongoing change?

· Do individual clubs moan about the lack of support from AFL Tasmania, but fail to provide the right support structures for their own reserves teams?

Or

What are the alternatives that could achieve truly strong support for the TSL competition?

 

[keepagoodmandown]

compromise might be to allow the TSL clubs reserves teams play in their own right in senior SFL/NTFL competitions?
how would the north hobart reserves go against new norfolk or dodges ferry for example?

 

[Still Kickin]

compromise might be to allow the TSL clubs reserves teams play in their own right in senior SFL/NTFL competitions?
how would the north hobart reserves go against new norfolk or dodges ferry for example?

From what i can gather, the NTFL are entertaining the idea of Burnie and Devonport having sides in their comp. Although they have been happy with the dual registration concept too. I think you would find some reserves teams would be competitive and would be great for coach's to have a look at kids playing against some good men which SFL clubs have, most TSL reserves sides and mainly young kids with a few older guys so you don't get a real good idea and the pace would be a little higher than seconds footy imo.

 

[JS#35]

compromise might be to allow the TSL clubs reserves teams play in their own right in senior SFL/NTFL competitions?
how would the north hobart reserves go against new norfolk or dodges ferry for example?

They would be beaten pretty easily. They would beat the likes of Triabunna though(not exactly a hard thing to do).

 

[Norchy_pies4life]

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=133009926711308#!/group.php?gid=133009926711308&v=wall

Made a facebook group for people to join who want to keep the reserves.

 

[the expert 1]

The State-wide Reserves level of football has received a little media in the last few weeks, and their future seems to be wobbly at best.

· Should this level of football continue, and if so, how do we best support it?

· Are AFL Tasmania’s intentions too masked, or have they been clear in what their long term strategy is for the league?

· If a strategy has been clearly presented has a platform of stability to achieve this strategy been provided, or is there too much ongoing change?

· Do individual clubs moan about the lack of support from AFL Tasmania, but fail to provide the right support structures for their own reserves teams?

Or

What are the alternatives that could achieve truly strong support for the TSL competition?

The situation basically is that the twos are being fazed out but Football Tas. will not make a call which is pretty poor. All that needs to be done is for them to put all clubs in the clear.

 

[central]

They would be beaten pretty easily. They would beat the likes of Triabunna though(not exactly a hard thing to do).

i think norths twos would beat most teams. They have a lot of players that would play ones at most sfl clubs if not all.

 

[JS#35]

i think norths twos would beat most teams. They have a lot of players that would play ones at most sfl clubs if not all.

You may be right, central. Dodges and Norfolk are both very good sides that would beat any state league clubs twos, IMO. Lindisfarne, Kingston and Huonville are also pretty good sides that I think would beat TSL twos.

 

[xamol]

The situation basically is that the twos are being fazed out but Football Tas. will not make a call which is pretty poor. All that needs to be done is for them to put all clubs in the clear.

Got me buggered why TE1. South Aust and West Aust both have a reserves competition that goes quite well. Vic have the VFL, but we know that is run quite well in conjunction with the AFL. WTF does Wade think Tassie is?? If the reserves go, you would think a large chunk of TSL footy clubs will go as well.

 

[madmug]

Got me buggered why TE1. South Aust and West Aust both have a reserves competition that goes quite well. Vic have the VFL, but we know that is run quite well in conjunction with the AFL. WTF does Wade think Tassie is?? If the reserves go, you would think a large chunk of TSL footy clubs will go as well.

Mate its got everyone buggered. I think the clubs might start to get a bit more arked up over this when they realise that cutting 25 players out of their club will make a big hole in their incomes. Those guys plus families & friends make a big contribution to club canteens, bars, social functions, & even fundraising, sponsorship & administration etc. Just giving all that to the SFL or NTFL would be bloody brainless. If clubs just roll over on this one I think some of them could go bust.
Why is it that AFLTas never explain anything to the public, we are the ones who pay to watch the footy & are treated like bloody mugs.
Why are the media so bloody weak? they never ask the obvious questions, like why did axe the Devils, why did they join then axe the North Melb alignment, why didnt they give the clubs any finals money last year? Why do they keep almost all the AFL draft money? & Cresswell!!! well what a FK up that was!!!
Its about time the media & politicians got involved & checked up on the money trail. AFLTas & the board should be investigated.

 

[Ball N Chain]

Mate its got everyone buggered. I think the clubs might start to get a bit more arked up over this when they realise that cutting 25 players out of their club will make a big hole in their incomes. Those guys plus families & friends make a big contribution to club canteens, bars, social functions, & even fundraising, sponsorship & administration etc. Just giving all that to the SFL or NTFL would be bloody brainless. If clubs just roll over on this one I think some of them could go bust.
Why is it that AFLTas never explain anything to the public, we are the ones who pay to watch the footy & are treated like bloody mugs.
Why are the media so bloody weak? they never ask the obvious questions, like why did axe the Devils, why did they join then axe the North Melb alignment, why didnt they give the clubs any finals money last year? Why do they keep almost all the AFL draft money? & Cresswell!!! well what a FK up that was!!!
Its about time the media & politicians got involved & checked up on the money trail. AFLTas & the board should be investigated.

AFL tas are trying to make it as elite as possible, they want 16's 18's and seniors statewide. What these dopes don't realise is, there just isn't enough talen to make the jump from 18's to seniors and there are footballers who don't quite come on until they are 21-21 and even older. They have full time staff and coach's working with the elite and still struggle to get more than two drafted, but they have this theory that part time state league coach's can????

 

[MooseOnTheLoose]

Was watching a few old grand finals from the mid 80s and early 90s with a few ex players (Glenorchy and Clarence which always makes things interesting) last Friday night and apart from the size of the crowds, the comments were generally about how the quality of the play would stack up against the current TSL and how the size (muscle development) of the players was so much bigger than anything running around today.

There would have barely been any players running around that were 18 or younger and those that were, were either drafted to the VFL/AFL or became absolute guns.

 

[North Wester]

Mate its got everyone buggered. I think the clubs might start to get a bit more arked up over this when they realise that cutting 25 players out of their club will make a big hole in their incomes. Those guys plus families & friends make a big contribution to club canteens, bars, social functions, & even fundraising, sponsorship & administration etc. Just giving all that to the SFL or NTFL would be bloody brainless. If clubs just roll over on this one I think some of them could go bust.
Why is it that AFLTas never explain anything to the public, we are the ones who pay to watch the footy & are treated like bloody mugs.
Why are the media so bloody weak? they never ask the obvious questions, like why did axe the Devils, why did they join then axe the North Melb alignment, why didnt they give the clubs any finals money last year? Why do they keep almost all the AFL draft money? & Cresswell!!! well what a FK up that was!!!
Its about time the media & politicians got involved & checked up on the money trail. AFLTas & the board should be investigated.

Super response. Absolutley spot on

 

[TACCA]

The State-wide Reserves level of football has received a little media in the last few weeks, and their future seems to be wobbly at best.

· Should this level of football continue, and if so, how do we best support it?

· Are AFL Tasmania’s intentions too masked, or have they been clear in what their long term strategy is for the league?

· If a strategy has been clearly presented has a platform of stability to achieve this strategy been provided, or is there too much ongoing change?

· Do individual clubs moan about the lack of support from AFL Tasmania, but fail to provide the right support structures for their own reserves teams?

Or

What are the alternatives that could achieve truly strong support for the TSL competition?

This sort of crap happens in most business, To keep or get a pay rise you have to reduce costs. Stop the cost of the Reserve competition and Wadey keeps his big pay packet or gets a pay rise at the expense of the clubs. Football Tas is run by amateurs.

 

[DOSACHOKER]

was talking to a mate yesterday who is a fringe senior/reserves player with Hobart and apparently the players are now starting to worry about the reserves and he said a couple of the guys had already stated if there is no reserves they are going to leave the club and go play in the SFL OR OLD SCHOLARS. This surely is a concern for a club like Hobart who is already struggling to recruit players because of poor recent history? These guys love the club but if they have to go back and play with another club or in a lesser competition they feel like they may as well play there full time anyway??

 

[xamol]

Mate its got everyone buggered. I think the clubs might start to get a bit more arked up over this when they realise that cutting 25 players out of their club will make a big hole in their incomes. Those guys plus families & friends make a big contribution to club canteens, bars, social functions, & even fundraising, sponsorship & administration etc. Just giving all that to the SFL or NTFL would be bloody brainless. If clubs just roll over on this one I think some of them could go bust.
Why is it that AFLTas never explain anything to the public, we are the ones who pay to watch the footy & are treated like bloody mugs.
Why are the media so bloody weak? they never ask the obvious questions, like why did axe the Devils, why did they join then axe the North Melb alignment, why didnt they give the clubs any finals money last year? Why do they keep almost all the AFL draft money? & Cresswell!!! well what a FK up that was!!!
Its about time the media & politicians got involved & checked up on the money trail. AFLTas & the board should be investigated.

Spot on MM. Kind of what I was referring to. I should of said, large chunks of each club. But you summed it up perfectly. Income for each club would be massively affected. Not to mention volunteers etc. The social side of things would be dramatically drained. Just imagine your club without a reserves. Who wouldnt be there. What would it do it?? Or for it for that matter.

 

[GreyBudgie]

Mate its got everyone buggered. I think the clubs might start to get a bit more arked up over this when they realise that cutting 25 players out of their club will make a big hole in their incomes. Those guys plus families & friends make a big contribution to club canteens, bars, social functions, & even fundraising, sponsorship & administration etc. Just giving all that to the SFL or NTFL would be bloody brainless. If clubs just roll over on this one I think some of them could go bust.
Why is it that AFLTas never explain anything to the public, we are the ones who pay to watch the footy & are treated like bloody mugs.
Why are the media so bloody weak? they never ask the obvious questions, like why did axe the Devils, why did they join then axe the North Melb alignment, why didnt they give the clubs any finals money last year? Why do they keep almost all the AFL draft money? & Cresswell!!! well what a FK up that was!!!
Its about time the media & politicians got involved & checked up on the money trail. AFLTas & the board should be investigated.

Great post madmug, take away the reserve you are ripping the fabric out of the club.
And as you have stated revune streams for the club dry up.

Fair dinkun is AFL Tasmania is in need of a clean out, and should be made held accoutable to the stake holders of this great game (Not just to Andrew Demetriou). The current mob lead by Scott Wade numureous mistakes (To numerous to list) since 1999 is deplorable.

Look put the rederve in the SFL and NTFL maybe make two divisions in each league with promotion and relegation like they used to do in the VFA, do we really need games like New Norfolk and Triabanua had on the weekend?

 

[Kingpin]

Spot on, Madmug. Absolutely spot on
The cone of silence is a bit.... off-putting... to say the least.
The lack of questioning from the media is also disconcerting.
There has unfortunately been this KGB-like response to any sort of debate or questioning in Tasmania football for awhile now.
The punters are most certainly not allowed an opinion, nor are they allowed to express it.
You will do as you're told, when you're told and you will like it!
The clubs have had that sort of attitude as well at times and it's a shit attitude and isn't particularly endearing to people.

Was watching a few old grand finals from the mid 80s and early 90s with a few ex players (Glenorchy and Clarence which always makes things interesting) last Friday night and apart from the size of the crowds, the comments were generally about how the quality of the play would stack up against the current TSL and how the size (muscle development) of the players was so much bigger than anything running around today.

There would have barely been any players running around that were 18 or younger and those that were, were either drafted to the VFL/AFL or became absolute guns.

Glad you touched on this Moose, because I said the same thing about a year ago, and I thought I was the only one that had that view.
I watched some of the Clarence sides of the 90's getting about and I think that they would belt the current Clarence side.
The reason? The physical pressure the guys in those 90's teams would've put on the current team is something the current team wouldn't be able to handle. I reckon they'd drop their bundle under that sort of fierce physical pressure.
Those sides of that era were not only laden with skillful players but they were a tough side as well.
Actually, when you look at the TSL currently, the highest margin is I think 118-points (we lost at Burnie last year by that), in the old league, the better teams were capable of much bigger smashings.
Just thinking about it, f uck there were some absolute tanks getting around in the TFL back then

Spot on MM. Kind of what I was referring to. I should of said, large chunks of each club. But you summed it up perfectly. Income for each club would be massively affected. Not to mention volunteers etc. The social side of things would be dramatically drained. Just imagine your club without a reserves. Who wouldnt be there. What would it do it?? Or for it for that matter.

I've noticed at Hobart this year that our after game functions in The Den are getting smaller and smaller and smaller as the weeks go on.
I'm not the only one to notice it either, I've had chats with quite a few longtime supporters up there who've said the 'zact same thing.
It's not uncommon for the place to be empty at 6:15pm now.
Back in the early 2000's it wasn't uncommon for us to be still up there sinking cans at 1am after a match!
Our crowds are sinking by the week too. First game against North dragged in 2,200-odd. The next one against Clarence pulled in 920-odd, the Burnie game pulled just over 700, the Devonport game drew in about 540 and the Lauderdale game pulled a pathetic crowd of around 480 on what a was a very wet and foggy day.
I can tell ya, without those ressies boys out there supporting the seniors each week, bringing family and friends to the game as well, we'd have a shitpoor atmosphere at our games and with the way the reserves has been mucked-arsed around with this season, we're not seeing these boys back after the games as often - and the results have been noticeable.
The club atmosphere that Hobart had isn't anywhere near the same as it was less than ten years ago (and that is a cold, hard fact), I'd be willing to bet most of the other clubs are in the same boat too.
We need to get some culture back into our clubs or else they'll run the risk of being cardboard cutouts - all business and no people.
FWIW - I still believe the move to the TSL was a good one, just hopefully the clubs are allowed to grow and not end up as cold, pathetic, plain, boring team lists like the old VFA clubs ended up as when it became the VFL.
That was tragic what happened to those clubs.

 

[keepagoodmandown]

whats the structure of afl tasmania? i mean, who appoints wade, povey and co. and do the clubs have any power at all in trying to get them sacked?

could the clubs walk away and form their own league away from afl tasmania?

or is all the clubs can do is threaten to leave the tsl?

 

[Norchy_pies4life]

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...6711308&v=wall

Join the Join to keep the Tasmanian State League reserves page on facebook if you have one.I have well over thousand people that not replied yet aso the group could get quite big by the end of the week.

 

[cooee bulldog]

Glad you touched on this Moos

 

[Barry Proctor]

Glad you touched on this Moose, because I said the same thing about a year ago, and I thought I was the only one that had that view.
I watched some of the Clarence sides of the 90's getting about and I think that they would belt the current Clarence side.
The reason? The physical pressure the guys in those 90's teams would've put on the current team is something the current team wouldn't be able to handle. I reckon they'd drop their bundle under that sort of fierce physical pressure.
Those sides of that era were not only laden with skillful players but they were a tough side as well.
Actually, when you look at the TSL currently, the highest margin is I think 118-points (we lost at Burnie last year by that), in the old league, the better teams were capable of much bigger smashings.
Just thinking about it, f uck there were some absolute tanks getting around in the TFL back then

It is an interesting point raised here, because i also saw some footage on the weekend of the old statewide competiton and the physical size of many (not all) players was much bigger than what you do see these days. The age of many players seemed to be much older as well. I am not sure that the clarence side of the 90s would 'belt' the current clarence side though, the game has changed so much in that space of time. It is hard to say how they would stack up agaisnt each other. Would the 90s team, while phyiscally bigger, be as fit and fast as 2010? I doubt. I also saw an AFL game from 96 last week, and while it was a good game to watch, both teams just bombed the ball from end to end, very little handball and run and carry.

I've noticed at Hobart this year that our after game functions in The Den are getting smaller and smaller and smaller as the weeks go on.
I'm not the only one to notice it either, I've had chats with quite a few longtime supporters up there who've said the 'zact same thing.
It's not uncommon for the place to be empty at 6:15pm now.
Back in the early 2000's it wasn't uncommon for us to be still up there sinking cans at 1am after a match!

I am not sure about the Hobart footy club but i know my club encourages players to look after them selves as best they can after games. Which includes all the appropriate rehab measures, and limitting the amount of alcohol consumed. I think this has a lot to do with small numbers drinking in the clubrooms after games. Football, in many cases seems to have lost its most of its 'social' enjoyment. Where players and supporters would pack out the clubrooms after a game and 'socialize' into the night.

 

[madmug]

I'm told they all go into town, still get plastered like they use to. some hit the 'uncle Dugs', then they fight. The back page of the Muckery today says Clarence & Glenorchy, I'm told you should add other clubs to that, even some SFL boys!!!. That didnt surprise me when I was told that a while ago, we all remember what the Devils players got up to, & we all know where many of them are playing now

 

[MooseOnTheLoose]

I don't think we want to get into a debate about the "glory" years of the old TFL against the current TSL - at least not here anyway. Suffice to say that today's game is obviously based on high skill levels, fast movement and uncontested football as much as possible.

I think the bigger point was the lack of underage players.

From the Clarence '93 team you probaly had 2 players who were 18 (Hulme and McCullum). I'd be surprised if North Launnie had 1.

Looking at the Bay v Glenorchy 87 final you had Pritchard for the Bay (and possibly Nigel Palfreyman) while Glenorchy had Lovell and Klug. Those three all were drafted (as was Palfreyman).

Nowadays, you have teams full of underage players but we still only have a few players drafted (the rookie list has increased the numbers slightly). Now AFL Tas are taking this money so it is in their interests to get as many players drafetd as they can. To this end, having reserves does not help them...they just need ot be careful that the standard doesn't drop too significnatly that no one gets drafted or that Clubs can't survive and hence there is no competition.

 

[Kingpin]

It is an interesting point raised here, because i also saw some footage on the weekend of the old statewide competiton and the physical size of many (not all) players was much bigger than what you do see these days. The age of many players seemed to be much older as well. I am not sure that the clarence side of the 90s would 'belt' the current clarence side though, the game has changed so much in that space of time. It is hard to say how they would stack up agaisnt each other. Would the 90s team, while phyiscally bigger, be as fit and fast as 2010? I doubt. I also saw an AFL game from 96 last week, and while it was a good game to watch, both teams just bombed the ball from end to end, very little handball and run and carry.

I thought about the age difference between the two leagues, it seemed to me that this current league was made up of very young players in comparison to the previous one.
But, in actual fact, there's probably not a great deal of difference in the ages.
In fact, the average age of the North Hobart and Hobart senior lists in 1989 (these two played off in the Grand Final that year) was North Hobart: 23.3 years and Hobart: 23.3 years.
North had two players over 30 (Danny Keegan and Jim Mathewson both aged 30) and Hobart had four players over 30 (Mark Browning 32, Graeme Fox 31, Wayne Fox and Wayne Petterd both 30).
The 1990 Senior lists of Hobart and North Launceston (the Grand Finalists that year) were Hobart: 23.4 and North Launceston: 24.3.
Hobart had four players over 30 (Mark Browning 33, Graeme Fox 32, Wayne Petterd and Tony Morwood both 31) and North Launceston also had four players over 30 (Peter Beythien 32, Kim Marsh 31, Steven Goulding and Robert Groenewegan both 30).
* Stats courtesy of the 1989 and 1990 TFL Grand Final programs.
I wonder what the current average age on each team list is? (I don't have a program handy...) Wouldn't be a lot of difference I'd guess.

You're right about the game changing a lot in that space of time - definitely.
The pace is certainly different, I still maintain that the day I saw Clarence play Hobart at the TCA in Round 3, that was as quick a ball movement as I've ever seen here, full stop. It was unbelievably quick!
The difference from the old league is the lack of physicality in this league (not to mention the dirty stuff is nowhere to be seen nowdays - well maybe not ON the field, perhaps on the Wharf instead LOL).
I s'pose you are right in one way that it's a bit hard to compare given that's it's a different game these days.
I certainly remember a lot of great sides that played excellent football back in the previous league, I also remember some utterly woeful teams from that era as well. The TSL is a LOT less one-sided than the TFL was, definitely.

I am not sure about the Hobart footy club but i know my club encourages players to look after them selves as best they can after games. Which includes all the appropriate rehab measures, and limitting the amount of alcohol consumed. I think this has a lot to do with small numbers drinking in the clubrooms after games. Football, in many cases seems to have lost its most of its 'social' enjoyment. Where players and supporters would pack out the clubrooms after a game and 'socialize' into the night.

Yes Hobart's the same with strong emphasis on players looking after themselves after the matches, watching what they eat and drink and going down to the THAC to do rehab and stretching etc.
They've got a very good group of people up there that look after the players well.
You're right about the social enjoyment of footy seeming to go by the wayside a lot these days, I certainly remember the big nights up at the Den in the past.
1989, 1990 and 1992 Grand Final nights the place was so packed that the crowd was stretched out the doors around in front of the bar and canteen and the stand above was half full as well - looked like a current day roster match!!
I remember having a spliff in the back of the main stand with a few Colts and Ressies players on '92 grand final night. Beer then grass = not a good combo!
1997 when Hobart played their last TFL game, that night the place was overflowing, you couldn't move and it was like that for two whole days!
God I murdered some brain cells on those nights Great times!
Dunno if I could drink that much these days Barry, even if the big nights did return, it'd take me two weeks to recover these days lol.
I also reckon the drink driving laws have pretty much put an end to that now too.