Unsolved Tynong North Murders

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Jane Doe

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Does anyone remeber the Tynong North murders in Melbourne in the early 80's? 4 women were found in bushland in Tynong North. The police think it might have been related to 2 women who were murdered in Frankston at the same time.

Police have had alot of theories has to what happend but the case remains unsolved. I am surprised this case does not get more publicity.
 
Another of those cases where the police are certain they know who did it but dont have enough evidence to prosecute. They've even gone as far as sayng the suspect was a cinema operator, and what specific model car he drove. Back in 2001 the Herald Sun even printed his name and photo saying he's the main suspect

They came out a couple of years ago again asking for information (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/help-crack-a-cold-case/story-e6frf7kx-1225911626242). The guy they strongly suspect still lives in Melbourne and they apparantly hope his wife comes around and withdraws her alibi for him.

More information from a Four Corners show at http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/stories/s263277.htm

Quite a frightening case, and a strange one where he seemed to stop committing murders when the police got too close. Serial killers dont usually do that. And I agree with you Jane, very surprised this one doesn't get much publicity. I guess no one wants to think there is a serial killer still going unpunished and living in the community
 

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Tonka said:
'Police linked the murders of six women whose bodies were found in Frankston and Tynong North between 1980 and '81. Result: Police suspect Harold Janman — although he has never been charged.'

quote from here

http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...the-hunt/2005/11/20/1132421545898.html?page=2
Click to expand...
If you search for Harold Janman on google, the only link that comes up that refers to him is this bizarre conversation on some yahoo chat site. You can see its him because some alludes to the fact that he was suspected of murder. The strange thing is they were seemingly all part of some weird cult/church thing called Potter's something...

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Escape_from_the_Fellowship/conversations/topics/13981
 
I've also never heard of this. Sounds like Serial Killer dumping ground 101. Not sure why this isn't widely known?

Oct 1981 Frankston VIC 55 Joy Summers Anglo Last seen waiting for a bus. Body found Frankston
29 Nov 1980 Tynong North VIC 34 Narumol Stephenson Anglo Last seen Brunswick
6 Oct 1980 Tynong North VIC 18 Anne-Marie Sargent Anglo Last seen Cranbourne
28 Aug 1980 Tynong North VIC 14 Catherine Headland Anglo Last seen going to catch bus.
10 Aug 1980 Tynong North VIC 73 Bertha Miller Anglo Last seen Glen Iris waiting for a tram
30 May 1980 Frankston VIC 59 Allison Rooke Anglo Last seen waiting for a bus. Body found Frankston

That would have to be the work of one or two serial killers. The two from Frankston are both the same age group and last seen catching a bus. The ones found at Tynong North are all the same dump site (3 together, one on the other side of the road). It's too much of a coincidence to say different killers would use same dump site. The odd one out is Bertha Miller at 73 but she was buried/dumped right next to Headland and Sargent. So this killer isn't fussy on age, killing girls between 14 and 73. Narumol Stephenson is the odd one out in that she was buried in a different part of Tynong North.

Check the time lines: The Tynong North disappearances are all within a 4 month period. That's 4 murders in 4 months. Why did this guy stop? The Frankston ones bookend the Tynon North ones and bodies were dumped in Frankston. Different MO, but one thing that links the two different groups (Frankston and Tynon North) is both groups had girls go missing when catching buses or using public transport.
 
Jane Doe said:
Does anyone remeber the Tynong North murders in Melbourne in the early 80's? 4 women were found in bushland in Tynong North. The police think it might have been related to 2 women who were murdered in Frankston at the same time.
Click to expand...

Whenever I drive down the Princes Highway and go past the sign saying "Tynong North" - that and Easey Street, Collingwood, both places give me a little shiver down the spine as to where evil has taken place.
 
Just found this. article about Harold Janman

http://www.serialkey.com.au/serial-key-articles/2001/3/18/tynong-is-the-search-over/

Tynong: Is The Search Over?
The Sunday Age

Sunday March 18, 2001

JOHN SILVESTER



ALTHOUGH past retiring age, "Harry Brown" still enjoyed his job driving a school bus. It was part of his nature to offer people lifts. But it was this habit that brought him to police attention when they were looking for a serial killer - nearly 20 years ago.



Back then, he was a film projectionist who worked in the city. He drove a black Corolla panel van and liked to offer lifts to strangers. It was also at a time when six women were picked up in Melbourne streets and murdered.



For 20 years, some police officers have been convinced the man who lives in a modest North Frankston home and likes to offer people lifts is a serial killer. Now - after one of the most intriguing murder investigations conducted - police believe they are finally making progress.



The circumstantial case against this quiet and strange man has always been compelling.



He was known to offer women lifts on the Frankston-Dandenong Road. Two women, Allison Rooke and Joy Carmel Summers, were abducted from the same street in 1980 and 1981. Their bodies were found off Skye Road, near where Mr Brown had worked at the drive-in.



About the same time, four other females were abducted and murdered. The bodies of Catherine Headland, 14, Ann-Marie Sargent, 18, Bertha Miller, 73, and Narumol Stephenson, 34, were all found in scrub at Tynong North. Police have been able to link Mr Brown to the area.



Mr Brown is now 68 years old. He is a deeply religious man who attends a strict church in Melbourne's outer east. He has two daughters and a son, all aged in their mid-30s.



Few people know Mr Brown well. People are not drawn to him nor him to them. Those who do claim to know him say he is a prude. When he worked in a city cinema he would turn girlie pictures in the projection and staff rooms to the wall because he claimed they were offensive.



But there was another side to Mr Brown, prude, family man, churchgoer and husband. Sometimes, he went out to pick up women. Sometimes they got into his car, more often they didn't.



"Most people do not accept lifts from me and I would say my success rate is about two to three per cent," he told detectives 19 years ago.



"I cannot recall the number of people, particularly female, to whom I have offered lifts, but I would estimate the number generally, over the past 18 months, to be about 50 or even more.



"I do not know why I offered people lifts and I do not know why I offered predominantly females lifts ... I have never harmed any person whilst actually giving them a lift or offering them a lift."



He claimed he was misunderstood and made the offers. "Just to be friendly, and have someone to talk to. Some women have to wait at the bus stop for a long time and I help them by giving them a ride. You never know what will happen next. All the schools have got drugs in them now and the young kids are causing trouble."



Mr Brown, then a powerful man in his 40s, denied his habit of asking women to hop into his car was sinister. For a brief moment, when he was interviewed on December 3, 1981, he tried to take the high moral ground. "I am not a sex maniac. I never play around and I resent the implication that I ever would."



His indignation was fleeting. The churchgoer was sharply reminded that in 1979 he had been charged with soliciting for the purposes of prostitution.



"Look, yes, but it is not how it is sir. All I felt is a cuddle, I was lonely."



Police found he was a regular at local sex shops and liked to fill out sex advertisements in underground magazines. "I only want to watch," he said.



When asked if he had ever offered murder victim Joy Summers a lift he responded, "Sir, I may have, I honestly may have, but if I did I didn't kill her. I wouldn't do anything like kill anyone."



Police weren't so sure.



Detectives tracked back to see where he was when the two Frankston women disappeared. He was a shift worker and on Friday, May 30, 1980, when Rooke was abducted, and Friday, October, 9, 1981, when Summers disappeared, he was on afternoon duty, from 4pm to 2am. The women went missing between 11.30am and 1.30pm.



Several women gave statements to the police that they had been approached by a man in a black van offering them lifts. One said she was waiting for a bus on the corner of Mahogany Avenue and Frankston-Dandenong Road. When she said no, he said: ``You don't know what you're missing." It was a Friday in May, 1980.



Another woman was approached at the same stop, again on a Friday. One Frankston woman said she saw the van parked outside her home and when she refused a lift from the driver, ``he appeared upset and turned his car around and in doing so screeched his tyres".



A schoolgirl on her way home from an exam was approached by a man in a black van offering her a lift. It was a Friday.



At 1.30am on October 21, 1981, two detectives went to interview Mr Brown at the cinema in Collins Street where he worked. At this time, Mrs Summers had been missing less than two weeks and her body had not been found.



The police told him they were investigating the disappearance of Mrs Summers and had information about a man driving a van pestering people in Frankston-Dandenong Road. He volunteered: ``I often stop and offer people lifts along there."



He said he picked them up ``sometimes at the bus stops in Frankston-Dandenong Road, sometimes when they are walking along the street".



He said he picked up males and females, ``but mainly elderly ladies if they will get in with me".



After he was interviewed, it took Mr Brown just 12 hours to discover an alibi. He rang Senior Detective John Kiely at Frankston and said that on the day Mrs Summers went missing he had driven to a Frankston bank with his wife to get some money. His wife backed up the story.



They were either mistaken or lying.



The bank manager told police no money was withdrawn or deposited into the account on that day. Bank records show a withdrawal was made the day before, but at a branch 20 kilometres from home.



After Mrs Summers' body was discovered, he was again interviewed - this time by homicide squad detectives. Again he was less than honest.



He denied knowing the location of Skye Road, even though he worked as the projectionist at the drive-in on the very street.



He denied ever being where the bodies of the two women were dumped, but later admitted knowing the location because he regularly passed the area on his way to the tip.



Detectives took him back to where the bodies had been found to see how he would react. They noted that although there were no signs to indicate where the victims were dumped Mr Brown avoided the areas as though he was already aware of the exact position.



``(He) became nervous and sweated a lot. He walked around the sites as asked, but at no time did he walk in the immediate vicinity of where the bodies had been lying. Extensive areas around the sites had been cleared of bush and scrub by the police crime scene searchers and the investigators stated that without some prior knowledge it would not have been possible to tell exactly where the two bodies had been lying," said a police analysis.



Those there that day remain convinced Mr Brown was the killer. One recalls that at the moment he appeared ready to confess he began to chant religious mantras and fell into a trance. When he spoke again he was back in control and again denied any involvement.



It was a pattern that was to be repeated many times over two decades. Police would believe he was ready to crack and then he would drift away to his own world.



When he was identified as a suspect in the Frankston killings he sought legal advice. His solicitor told him not to comment in any future police interviews.



But on December 6, 1981 - the first anniversary of the discovery of three bodies at Tynong North - Mr Brown walked into the Frankston police station.



It was 7pm on a Sunday when he spoke to Senior Constable Michael White at the watchhouse counter. It is almost certain the suspect had been to church earlier that day.



Mr Brown said: ``You know I was brought in about two murders in Frankston. Well, why haven't I been asked about five murders instead of two?"



White asked: ``Which other ones are you talking about?"



Brown replied: ``The ones at Tynong."



EXPERIENCED investigators say the killer who dumped his victims at Tynong North must have known the area well. He knew that off the Princes Highway and Brew Road was a track leading to scrub where bodies could remain undetected.



No passing motorist would find the track. It would require local knowledge. The bodies were not just dumped from a car, they were taken deep into the scrub.



Police found that efforts had been made to conceal three of the bodies found at Tynong North. Branches were sawn off to cover one of the victims.



A police analysis of the crimes concluded the killer identified where he would dump the bodies before he abducted the women. All he was looking for was the right opportunity. ``The person(s) who placed the bodies at the Brew Road site was also more particular in selecting a site at which to dispose of the bodies. An isolated site, off a little-used road, considerable distance from the nearest main road was selected. He/they were prepared to take the victim a considerable distance from where he picked them up before disposing of the body."



One thing is certain: the serial killer didn't stumble on Tynong North.



Mr Brown went to the Kinglake West Primary School, but in the late 1950s he moved to Garfield, the area adjoining the killer's dumping ground. Police also found he had worked as a barman at a hotel nearby.



During the time that Miller, Sargent, Headland and Stephenson disappeared his black van was seen parked outside an old friend's home in Garfield.



Before Mr Brown worked as a projectionist he was a truck driver. His regular route took him 1865 metres along Brew Road, north from the Princes Highway, and 205 metres along a track to the quarry where he picked-up loads of sand. It was the very track where the killer was to take his victims years later.



A review of the case suggested detectives should look for a man who:



``1) Would have access to a motor vehicle.



2) Either did not work, was a shift worker, or maybe on annual leave.



3) Had a good knowledge of the area bound by Dandenong, Frankston and Beaconsfield and may have lived in the area.



4) Was an opportunist."



Mr Brown fitted the four key points. Police could also establish he knew the exact areas in Frankston and Tynong North where the bodies were dumped. They could prove he was a liar and he attempted to pick up women at bus stops.



But they lacked witnesses or hard evidence to put before a court.



A Bureau of Criminal Intelligence review of the case in 1990 concluded Mr Brown was a ``viable suspect with weak or non-existent alibis".



``On the balance of probabilities, the same person or persons were responsible for the murders of Allison Rooke, Bertha Miller, Catherine Linda Headland, Ann-Marie Sargent and Joy Carmel Summers. On the information available (Mr Brown) is the best nominated suspect for the offences."



More than 2000 people were interviewed in the original investigation and 11,400 pages of notes taken but the balance of probabilities was not enough for a murder case. The files were boxed and shelved.



Mr Brown went about his peculiar ways. In August 1997, he was arrested by police during a gutter-crawling clean-up operation in St Kilda. Then 65 and dressed in a suit and tie, he approached an undercover policewoman and asked for sex.



He was one of 70 men picked up in the sweep, but he was chattier than most. He introduced himself to police as ``the prime suspect in the Tynong North killings".



MANY of the police who investigated the Tynong North and Frankston murders have moved on or retired.



But one man remained frustrated by the lack of success. It was Mick Miller, the chief commissioner who retired in 1987 and whose Aunt Bertha was one of the victims.



When he was chief commissioner he was determined not to interfere in the case, although he was a brilliant homicide squad investigator before he was promoted. But once he retired he became convinced the killer could be found.



He developed a theory that a man, a distant relative, could be the murderer, and that not enough had been done to examine his alibi, which could have been false.



Late in 1998, Mr Miller approached the then Chief Commissioner Neil Comrie with his views. Mr Comrie agreed to re-open the case.



It would prove to be a massive task. Many of the witnesses were dead and others had difficulties remembering events from the 1980s. They had to begin again.



As the investigation progressed, most leads were exhausted and all suspects had been eliminated, except for one - Mr Brown.



The facts on the case and the suspect were sent to international serial crime experts, including those in the United States. The results were encouraging. Detectives were told Mr Brown was likely to be the multiple murderer.



They found that even fellow members of his church felt he was a strange man who used religion to disguise another side to his personality.



Mr Brown has been interviewed and re-interviewed and has stuck to his story. He was not involved. What is more he was working on the day that Catherine Headland disappeared. If police are hunting the one serial killer and Mr Brown did not abduct Headland then he cannot be the Tynong North murderer.



But detectives have reinvestigated the alibi and believe they have established flaws in the story. Police asked the suspect to take two polygraph tests. He was asked a series of questions which he answered truthfully. He was then asked questions about the Frankston and Tynong North murders. He failed.



The head of Operation Lyndhurst, Detective Senior Sergeant Clive Rust, told The Sunday Age police had made breakthroughs. ``We are confident we now know his (the killer's) identity.



``We have used DNA technology, behavioral, psychological and geographic profiling methods and have been greatly assisted by receiving important new information from members of the public. We are confident in the direction our investigation is heading. We are now focusing on one suspect."



Police experience is that a serial killer continues to commit murders until caught. How was it then, that the Frankston-Tynong North killer apparently just stopped?



Detectives have been told that some serial killers need a ``spark", which causes them to start killing. When it is removed they can stop.



When Mr Brown was interviewed in December 1981 he stressed he was normal. But he did admit that at one time he had had ``severe marital problems, which mainly involved financial difficulties ... My wife informed me that she was going to seek divorce proceedings".



For a deeply religious man who did not believe in divorce it must have been a disturbing time. It was also when the women started to disappear.



Later the Browns were able to work through their difficulties and they remain married. The murders stopped.



Anyone with information should contact Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000. A reward of $150,000 is offered for information relating to the six murders
 
I've gone over a great deal of newspaper articles for many years now, paid for older articles on the subject & even contacted the criminal profiler from the foxtel unsolved serial killer tv show 'dark minds'. I'm very interested in these types of cases. I'm from langwarrin which borders with the road mcclelland drive which had bushland where the portsea freeway is now, Skye rds end meets mcclelland drive and either side of Skye rd is where those frankston bodies were found. I became interested because my friends & I would go into the bush land and my mother told me of a skeleton being found there, I remembered the story as an adult.What I gather is yes, Harold janman is the most likely killer of 'all' of these women. He lived in both areas and seemed to know tynong better than frankston, being able to hide them so well there. The reason for his anger or spark that resulted in the murders was wife talking of divorce because of financial difficulties but once that had ended the murders apparently halted. He was deeply into his religious sect because in gave him a sense of power & control, also a place to hide from the public & also helped him with any emotions about what he had done & was a hypocrite who denounced pr0n in public but used prostitutes. He has something to hide. Dennis rader btk was the head of his church. He had his van parked many times at an old friends house in Garfield which borders tynong during the marital pressures with his wife, this shows that when he had spare time to kill, literally he did while present at least the image to his family he wanted to visit his friend which could take hours. 1st going over his MO. The murders locations were different but essentially the same, leaving women in the bush.Now the first murder in this series was in frankston, remember police think and old women in 1978 was murdered by the same man. Ok the 1st frankston one was probably not completely planned and he thought no one will suspect me and did it sloppily, close to home & not hidden well. He felt the pressure & anger building and realized he knew a good hiding place, away from home in the country and he could visit his friends out there or use that as at least an excuse for his time & where abouts. This man worked in the city as a projectionist so he travels around driving a lot even close to home. He approaches people I'm his area for a ride but a lot refuse. It's easier when someone my need a ride so people further from their destination are more likely to accept one & some of these latter people were in that situation & he would pick up any women no matter the age but older women sometimes were more gracious and accepted. Now all these women found in tynong except Stephenson were well hidden down the quarry road and deep down a dirt track. This confused investigators because she wasn't well hidden and was placed on the other side of the road. Why? Well she was taken at night 2am near Melbourne &all of the others were taken around 11 am on a Friday. This one mimics the two in frankston. Seemingly less effort put into the concealment. I'm quite sure it was much to dark to take her to the others, a lot more difficult reaching the location during nightfall which may expose him somehow. The last murder was in frankston, another woman got in. He had the opportunity that day, someone said yes & at that point I'm sure no one had connected him to anything so he was probably feeling confident then he was connected and not much more happened, he was questioned for the frankston murders alone but on the anniversary of the bodies being found in tynong he went into the frankston police station and questioned them as to why he had not himself been question for the murders in tynong also. He interjected and wanted some sort of recognition: The killers MO is in relation to time, in that if his dumping grounds for victims relate to the amount of time he has to conceal them.
 

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One more thing I'd like to add. If this man has any big connections to any other locations, he lived in other locations or had friends or family or knew other locations well there will probably be other bodies elsewhere found or unfound either in small groups or individually which essentially makes it harder to be connected to a series, especially if committed years apart or hours away from one another. Maybe this may not be true later after police contact, maybe he has and has been more careful since. They suspect an elderly women was murdered by the same man in 1978 near boxhill. That being true or not most serial killers don't start killing in their forties, he may have had another series or individuals over years with an historically unrecognized pattern at this stage. Surely there has been other triggers earlier than this, waiting until forty is such a long time to not act on such a deep seated rage. There has to be more secrets he holds
 
Toooo said:
One more thing I'd like to add. If this man has any big connections to any other locations, he lived in other locations or had friends or family or knew other locations well there will probably be other bodies elsewhere found or unfound either in small groups or individually which essentially makes it harder to be connected to a series, especially if committed years apart or hours away from one another. Maybe this may not be true later after police contact, maybe he has and has been more careful since. They suspect an elderly women was murdered by the same man in 1978 near boxhill. That being true or not most serial killers don't start killing in their forties, he may have had another series or individuals over years with an historically unrecognized pattern at this stage. Surely there has been other triggers earlier than this, waiting until forty is such a long time to not act on such a deep seated rage. There has to be more secrets he holds
Click to expand...

Toooo said:
I've gone over a great deal of newspaper articles for many years now, paid for older articles on the subject & even contacted the criminal profiler from the foxtel unsolved serial killer tv show 'dark minds'. I'm very interested in these types of cases. I'm from langwarrin which borders with the road mcclelland drive which had bushland where the portsea freeway is now, Skye rds end meets mcclelland drive and either side of Skye rd is where those frankston bodies were found. I became interested because my friends & I would go into the bush land and my mother told me of a skeleton being found there, I remembered the story as an adult.What I gather is yes, Harold janman is the most likely killer of 'all' of these women. He lived in both areas and seemed to know tynong better than frankston, being able to hide them so well there. The reason for his anger or spark that resulted in the murders was wife talking of divorce because of financial difficulties but once that had ended the murders apparently halted. He was deeply into his religious sect because in gave him a sense of power & control, also a place to hide from the public & also helped him with any emotions about what he had done & was a hypocrite who denounced pr0n in public but used prostitutes. He has something to hide. Dennis rader btk was the head of his church. He had his van parked many times at an old friends house in Garfield which borders tynong during the marital pressures with his wife, this shows that when he had spare time to kill, literally he did while present at least the image to his family he wanted to visit his friend which could take hours. 1st going over his MO. The murders locations were different but essentially the same, leaving women in the bush.Now the first murder in this series was in frankston, remember police think and old women in 1978 was murdered by the same man. Ok the 1st frankston one was probably not completely planned and he thought no one will suspect me and did it sloppily, close to home & not hidden well. He felt the pressure & anger building and realized he knew a good hiding place, away from home in the country and he could visit his friends out there or use that as at least an excuse for his time & where abouts. This man worked in the city as a projectionist so he travels around driving a lot even close to home. He approaches people I'm his area for a ride but a lot refuse. It's easier when someone my need a ride so people further from their destination are more likely to accept one & some of these latter people were in that situation & he would pick up any women no matter the age but older women sometimes were more gracious and accepted. Now all these women found in tynong except Stephenson were well hidden down the quarry road and deep down a dirt track. This confused investigators because she wasn't well hidden and was placed on the other side of the road. Why? Well she was taken at night 2am near Melbourne &all of the others were taken around 11 am on a Friday. This one mimics the two in frankston. Seemingly less effort put into the concealment. I'm quite sure it was much to dark to take her to the others, a lot more difficult reaching the location during nightfall which may expose him somehow. The last murder was in frankston, another woman got in. He had the opportunity that day, someone said yes & at that point I'm sure no one had connected him to anything so he was probably feeling confident then he was connected and not much more happened, he was questioned for the frankston murders alone but on the anniversary of the bodies being found in tynong he went into the frankston police station and questioned them as to why he had not himself been question for the murders in tynong also. He interjected and wanted some sort of recognition: The killers MO is in relation to time, in that if his dumping grounds for victims relate to the amount of time he has to conceal them.
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I knew Harold back in 2000 - 2001, he drove a bus for special needs children to and from school and my son was on his bus. He lived nearby but had left the bus driving due to "not passing the eyesight test" as he had a lazy eye. Last heard he was living in a caravan park in Frankston, wife died in 2006.
 
Keep a eye out for this case in the media as it nears it's 35th anniversary. Victorias worst unsolved serial killer is likely to die a free man if justice isn't served soon. Someone, somewhere has seen something.. heard something.. and they've kept that dark secret to themselves for the past 35 years. It's time to step forward, clear the conscience and let yhe families & friends of these poor souls finally find the closure they so greatly deserve.
 
You know we now have another 3 missing/murdered girls in the past 3 years from the frankston area. Traci O'sullivan was murdered in her home in Frankston north in feb 2015, Karen Rae disappeared from the same area April 15 2015 and another young girl was killed 3 years ago, from the same area. It's not good and it seems to be happening all over again. Yet the police continue to stay silent
 
Banksia said:
You know we now have another 3 missing/murdered girls in the past 3 years from the frankston area. Traci O'sullivan was murdered in her home in Frankston north in feb 2015, Karen Rae disappeared from the same area April 15 2015 and another young girl was killed 3 years ago, from the same area. It's not good and it seems to be happening all over again. Yet the police continue to stay silent
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By "the police continue to stay silent", do you actually mean the police media? Why do police media have to say anything? I'm sure Homicide Squad detectives are working tirelessly behind the scenes. I hope by "police continue to stay silent" you don't mean "police continue to do nothing". Just because you haven't heard anything in relation to the murder mysteries, doesn't mean investigations aren't being continued.
 
Just like the 5 girls that went missing in the same area in the early 80's? Tyrong actually. Killer was prob found but released. just like the Claremont killings? Killer was prob found and released. Look up the guy in the uk that was arrested for murdering an 18yrold girl then raping her corpse. he was in wa claremont at the time, was charged with pulling his shit out at a girl at a phone box, was then deported to uk, then killed an 18 yrold. Yeah your right, there doing heaps. The police yes that's the police have even claimed one of the recent disappearances in frankston was maybe a girl just running away. She had 5 kids! as if she ran away and just left them. It must be sweet as being born a male hey?? Yeah something you never have to be concerned with right? I live in the area so I believe they could b doing alot more. My bf's friend was one of the victims and you know what the police did? Or the coroner. Demned her murder as a suicide. And i will let you know a fact, you wont find any evidence anywhere on her as its been covered up. She had 4 kids and was not suicidal and that's 100% fact. So yes, I think the police sit on their arses and use only the evidence that they feel is appropriate.
 
Toooo said:
I've gone over a great deal of newspaper articles for many years now, paid for older articles on the subject & even contacted the criminal profiler from the foxtel unsolved serial killer tv show 'dark minds'. I'm very interested in these types of cases. I'm from langwarrin which borders with the road mcclelland drive which had bushland where the portsea freeway is now, Skye rds end meets mcclelland drive and either side of Skye rd is where those frankston bodies were found. I became interested because my friends & I would go into the bush land and my mother told me of a skeleton being found there, I remembered the story as an adult.What I gather is yes, Harold janman is the most likely killer of 'all' of these women. He lived in both areas and seemed to know tynong better than frankston, being able to hide them so well there. The reason for his anger or spark that resulted in the murders was wife talking of divorce because of financial difficulties but once that had ended the murders apparently halted. He was deeply into his religious sect because in gave him a sense of power & control, also a place to hide from the public & also helped him with any emotions about what he had done & was a hypocrite who denounced pr0n in public but used prostitutes. He has something to hide. Dennis rader btk was the head of his church. He had his van parked many times at an old friends house in Garfield which borders tynong during the marital pressures with his wife, this shows that when he had spare time to kill, literally he did while present at least the image to his family he wanted to visit his friend which could take hours. 1st going over his MO. The murders locations were different but essentially the same, leaving women in the bush.Now the first murder in this series was in frankston, remember police think and old women in 1978 was murdered by the same man. Ok the 1st frankston one was probably not completely planned and he thought no one will suspect me and did it sloppily, close to home & not hidden well. He felt the pressure & anger building and realized he knew a good hiding place, away from home in the country and he could visit his friends out there or use that as at least an excuse for his time & where abouts. This man worked in the city as a projectionist so he travels around driving a lot even close to home. He approaches people I'm his area for a ride but a lot refuse. It's easier when someone my need a ride so people further from their destination are more likely to accept one & some of these latter people were in that situation & he would pick up any women no matter the age but older women sometimes were more gracious and accepted. Now all these women found in tynong except Stephenson were well hidden down the quarry road and deep down a dirt track. This confused investigators because she wasn't well hidden and was placed on the other side of the road. Why? Well she was taken at night 2am near Melbourne &all of the others were taken around 11 am on a Friday. This one mimics the two in frankston. Seemingly less effort put into the concealment. I'm quite sure it was much to dark to take her to the others, a lot more difficult reaching the location during nightfall which may expose him somehow. The last murder was in frankston, another woman got in. He had the opportunity that day, someone said yes & at that point I'm sure no one had connected him to anything so he was probably feeling confident then he was connected and not much more happened, he was questioned for the frankston murders alone but on the anniversary of the bodies being found in tynong he went into the frankston police station and questioned them as to why he had not himself been question for the murders in tynong also. He interjected and wanted some sort of recognition: The killers MO is in relation to time, in that if his dumping grounds for victims relate to the amount of time he has to conceal them.
Click to expand...
With all due respect, for the amount of effort you've put into researching these cases, you've got a lot of incorrect information.
The last murder wasn't in Frankston, Stephenson was abducted late November 1980 - so theres a good chance that the other Tynong victims were already found when her body was disposed of and they needed to find another location (if shes connected to the Tynong case at all)
Margret Elliott was murdered in box hill in 1975. She lived in the same street in Berwick that Catherine Headland would live in when she was abducted 5 years later. .
Not all victims were taken at the same time of day nor all on a Friday.
Catherine Headland for example was taken on a Thursday morning.
Just thought you might like to know those inconsistencies.
Have a nice day.
 
ThePureOne the second frankston murder was in 81 I just checked I was correct about that although you are right about the various differences in the dates. When I wrote this there was less access to information but there is a variety of articles now. There are similaraties though. I also have an Underbelly book which goes into more detail in a chapter called 'Bodies in the bush". It's interesting how the transvesite killer urban myth probably originated the murder scene at tynong near the bodies was some sort of clothing or something that may have given arise to the myth which resurfaced a decade later when Paul Denyer was stalking Frankston. However I do believe there is a little room for speculation on Narumol's due to the the very, very unlikely case that another murderer would choose a location in such close proximity to the other bodies and do so in such a short period of time. We've never really had an outrageous amount of murders in Melbourne. Of course it is certainly possible that it's unconnected and even that just adds to the massive cloud of mystery surrounding this case. My sister has recently met a friend of Catherine's she talked about the impact this had on raising her children. I mentioned this crime in a Facebook page and a couple of people who knew Harold well contacted me and believe he did it without a doubt but said his wife covered for him his whereabouts on the day of Catherine's murder and then apparently she died so that statement she made protecting him could never be recanted. I emailed the criminal profiler John Kelly from the show 'Dark minds' about it he thought it was a really interesting case would be good to get some interest in this I believed at the time but to no avail. I really didn't want this going down in history as a dark question mark, along with the other theories about some of these murders being connected to the Dennis Tanner investigation, the land close to the Tynong bodies was apparently owned by the same family who owned land in the country related to those murders. Plus the Mr Stinky theory.. or the possibility that Janman linked himself to the Tynong murders after being questioned about the first franston one to throw them off although this is unlikely as he lived near the tynong area in Garfield and worked on brew rd. It's a complicated case and so much time has passed it is obviously unlikely it will ever be resolved. I've read much on serial killers and some can seem to stop if they really have too but many don't, many do killings in ones or twos and then do a series then go back to some here and there like Gary Ridgeway for instance. I still think that he may have something to do with Sarah MacDiarmid's murder as he would have still probably lived near by. He surely would have been spoken to about it after it happened but who knows? What we do know about that is 3 years after her murder Paul Denyer came on the scene and became a suspect along with the heroin addicted group theory that may have also killed her. The one thing is with that murder is if it was Paul he may not ever admit it because why would he now, it he did it was probably his first which may be special to him and maybe even frightened him a bit so he may of not acted again for a few years which is something else serial killers have done like Jeffry Dahmer. I do believe the tynong killer may have a couple more under his belt spread out more spaciously over time but who knows? Surely though he would have had friends in Garfield that suspected something during his visits or perhaps late arrivals during his visits after the news broke about him, but were they even spoken to back then? We don't really know that either.. I don't really think about this much these days we can only hope something changes for the victims families and to put this to bed once and for all
 
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Thanks for writing back btw and please add anything or if I made mistakes, do tell me I think I was tipsy last time
 
Oh one more thing the first bodies at tynong were not found before narumol's body was dumped unless he kept it for a month which is not likely she was t
aken in Nov 1980 and those bodies at tynong were found in Dec 1980 I was right about that so my theory on why she may have been dumped there still makes sense wether it's the reason why he did it or not Ive just checked the dates.
 

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