Undermanned?

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topdon

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What is all this rubbish?

All i've heard from Ch 9, C10, and Foxtel commentators is how the losing side (the one that is expected to win) are undermanned, making their loss somehow 'predictable'.

Since when has missing 2 - 3 senior players meant being undermanned? :confused:

Sounds like a convenient exit clause to me! :rolleyes:
 
I agree.

And even if they were undermanned, it doesn't devalue the win or make the loss better; it means the losers need to ask questions of their selection committee.
 
I dunno, Brisbane were missing 9 of their flag team, so I'd guess that was undermanned. Richmond and Melbourne were just shocking. Carlton looked a little lost.

It doesn't bode well for Sydney, Hawthorn and Essendon tomorrow, so far all of the lower ranked teams from last year have won.
 

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Originally posted by Port01
I dunno, Brisbane were missing 9 of their flag team, so I'd guess that was undermanned. Richmond and Melbourne were just shocking. Carlton looked a little lost.

It doesn't bode well for Sydney, Hawthorn and Essendon tomorrow, so far all of the lower ranked teams from last year have won.
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Brisbane were undermanned and showed what class & depth they do have with a great comeback at Crows from 6 goals down at half time.

Still Crows were missing a few too (Stevens & Fitzgerald in particular and Massie and possibly Hewitt might have been handy). Also I thought that McGregor having to go off and there being no-one left to go against Brown helped Brisbane a great deal. Still begs the question what either side can take out of it I suppose.

In Carltons case, and possibly Richmonds as well, there is seemingly very little to be taken out of it. This I suppose is the point.
 
Voss, Notting, Lynch, Pike, Black, C.Scott, Leppitsch, Keating and White. Fairly useful collection of players to come back into the team. Could've excused the side for going down by several goals tonight against a virtually full-strength finals contender.

You don't have to take too many stars out of a top side to bring 'em back to the field. Look at Carlton.
 
Originally posted by Mr Ripper
Voss, Notting, Lynch, Pike, Black, C.Scott, Leppitsch, Keating and White. Fairly useful collection of players to come back into the team. Could've excused the side for going down by several goals tonight against a virtually full-strength finals contender.

You don't have to take too many stars out of a top side to bring 'em back to the field. Look at Carlton.
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There was no question that Brisbane were missing a good many of their premiership side.

But Crows were not virtually full strength. Three key position players not playing and a fourth (McGregor) injured for the best part of the game. That can bring a side back to the field as well.

I thought the Crows did OK and Brisbane mounted a very strong comeback and would have won if the game went only a minute or so longer, what was your view Mr Ripper?
 
Thouroghly enjoyable game tonight.

I was a bit peeved at Gerard Healy's continual comments at how a Brisbane win would be an embarrassment for Adelaide, due to the missing Brisbane players. What a crock of sh*t. Brisbane might have been missing quite a few top line players, but they are still the reigning premiers and were playing at home to boot. It would have been no disgrace for the Crows to lose that game. Any win over the Lions in Brisbane is a fine effort, regardless of personnel.
 
Im with Dan. Its been the standout match of the four I have seen so far.

Skills were high and for the Lions to come back hard with the players out against a quality opposition side I think bodes well for their depth of talent across the board.

Adelaide played good footy with some nice input from their best two (McLeod and Riccutio) players. For the Lions to go down by only a few points (and with a little bit of more direct football in the last thirty seconds they could have pinched it) was no great disgrace.


Still wish Nine wouldnt clutter the screen up so much but I did think they toned it down a bit from friday nights effort.
 
Originally posted by ok.crows
But Crows were not virtually full strength. Three key position players not playing and a fourth (McGregor) injured for the best part of the game. That can bring a side back to the field as well.
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Hewitt...Fitzgerald...MacGregor...having that trio out would have benefitted the team, I would have thought! :p ;)
Originally posted by ok.crows
I thought the Crows did OK and Brisbane mounted a very strong comeback and would have won if the game went only a minute or so longer, what was your view Mr Ripper?
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Had the momentum...who knows? I'll say "yes" just to provoke further learned discussion of the event! :D
 
Oh please.
In the 1st half of footy the Lions skills were z grade. Laughable. The crowd even booed at times.
The thing they do have is depth and fitness.
If the Crows had 3 of their 1st picked 18 ( which I doubt ), and the Lions had 9 of their 1st picked 18 not playing. Then all I can say is god help Gary Ayres,I hope he has his unemployemnt organised.The Crows are in dire trouble. If thats the best they can do having a real hard dip as he said in his press conference, then they were the laughable ones.
 
Originally posted by topdon
What is all this rubbish?

All i've heard from Ch 9, C10, and Foxtel commentators is how the losing side (the one that is expected to win) are undermanned, making their loss somehow 'predictable'.

Since when has missing 2 - 3 senior players meant being undermanned? :confused:

Sounds like a convenient exit clause to me! :rolleyes:
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It is crap and the supporters use the same reasons when their side is being beaten.

Are we going to hear the same excuses being used for every defeat of a favoured side during the season?
 

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Posted by Campbell:- In the 1st half of footy the Lions skills were z grade. Laughable. The crowd even booed at times.
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Under no circumstances has the Brisbane crowd at the Gabba EVER booed our boys.

You might get the occasional groan, but never have we booed.

The Gabba crowd clapped our boys off the ground. We understood that there was a lot of green talent on the ground and they did alright.

Pre-season is for the young talent to have a dip at playing with the big boys without the presure of premiership points at stake.

All in all, I feel pretty good in knowing that we have some pretty good, young talent sitting in the side lines.
 
Originally posted by ok.crows


There was no question that Brisbane were missing a good many of their premiership side.

But Crows were not virtually full strength. Three key position players not playing and a fourth (McGregor) injured for the best part of the game. That can bring a side back to the field as well.

I thought the Crows did OK and Brisbane mounted a very strong comeback and would have won if the game went only a minute or so longer, what was your view Mr Ripper?
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I wouldnt call Evan Hewit part of the main team...not with Massie at West Lakes now.
Crows DID have a virtual full strength squad...Brisbane had half a side..i expected the crows to go on with it after half time but Brisbane did pretty well to get back in it and almost steal it.

pretty good game really. Bode had a fair bit of the ball. Mcgregors injury looked sickening. Schell got gifted 2 goals and looked basically lost for most of the game. Rutten looks a good sort.
Still, it is preseason...cant really take a whole lot from these games, other than individual performances. All the preseason really is, is for young guys ad fringe players to try and win a spot for the opening round
 
Macca - The Crows had their first choice key forwards missing (ie. Stevens & Fitzgerald), which whilst not as bad as Brisbane's missing players, still makes the Crows less than full strength. If Port were missing Tredrea & C Cornes, then I'm sure you wouldn't be claiming the team was near full strength. Also, Hewitt is our best option @ CHB & Massie will be part of the 1st team. You can never get too excited about these pre-season games as an indicator of the year, but there were some good signs from the likes of Bode, Doughty, Burton, Schell, Rutten, etc. Also, the game was in the Lion's backyard where they have a great record & conditions warmed during the game, which is partly why I think the Crows were over-run in the 2nd half (in addition to the likes of Lappin, Akermanis, Power & Brown playing well).
 
Originally posted by Mr Ripper
Voss, Notting, Lynch, Pike, Black, C.Scott, Leppitsch, Keating and White. Fairly useful collection of players to come back into the team. Could've excused the side for going down by several goals tonight against a virtually full-strength finals contender.

You don't have to take too many stars out of a top side to bring 'em back to the field. Look at Carlton.
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McKernan
McKay
Ratten
Whitnall
Hickmott
Christou
Koutoufides
Freeborn
Houlihan

All would have got in ahead of some of the players we had in yesterday and most of them are top 10 if not top 5 players for us. To think that it left Campo and Bradley to be the only stars to hold it all together makes the performance understandable.

I'm not making excuses. West Coast wanted to win more than we did and they had more experienced players out there. We got a good look at some young players which is vital (especially in defence). Great stuff for all the underdogs to have a win but for some people to suggest that having many top liners out made no difference to a teams performance and we should accept that we are no good is pure lunacy and they have no idea about football.

Take your credit where it lies but remember this is the pre-season and every year some teams need to use it for reasons other than winning a trophy.
 
Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Macca - The Crows had their first choice key forwards missing (ie. Stevens & Fitzgerald), which whilst not as bad as Brisbane's missing players, still makes the Crows less than full strength. If Port were missing Tredrea & C Cornes, then I'm sure you wouldn't be claiming the team was near full strength.
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If port were only missing Tredrea and Cornes we would be virtually full strength. 2 out of 24 is not a big drama.
Crows were missing 4 out of their best 24...they were virtually full strength...note the VIRTUAL. Brisbane were missing 9 premiership players...9 players out of any side is a fair chunk.
Anyway who cares...its bloody preseason for christs sake
 
Its not the number of losses, its who the losses are.

If we had lost Cornes and Tredrea, its going to impact on us a ****load more than, say, Wakelin and Kingsley
 
It's the usual lines from supporters at this time of the year...

IF YOU WIN:
It was a good win. We showed some good signs, some of the younger players played well and we could have a lot to look forward to this year. We won with a few players out or underdone, but the kids really stood up.

IF YOU LOSE:
It doesn't matter at this time of the year. We had a number of players out and we were trying the kids. We dont take this pre-season comp seriously. Wait until round one!!


Go Cats!! :):)
SeinDude
 
Originally posted by Macca19


If port were only missing Tredrea and Cornes we would be virtually full strength. 2 out of 24 is not a big drama.
Crows were missing 4 out of their best 24...they were virtually full strength...note the VIRTUAL. Brisbane were missing 9 premiership players...9 players out of any side is a fair chunk.
Anyway who cares...its bloody preseason for christs sake
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Agreed with your comment about the pre-season Macca but I would like to note that of the players Crows are likely to eventually include in their first choice 22, Stevens, Fitzgerald, Massie, Gallagher and Hewitt were missing. Johncock is probably also a first-choice player, and McGregor was out for most of the game.

That is a fair few, Macca, up to 7 in all. I would have said enough missing to have comfortably missed out on a "virtually full-strength" label.

But never mind, Macca, if the journos on the AFL website write it, it must be true, hey?
 
Originally posted by ok.crows


Agreed with your comment about the pre-season Macca but I would like to note that of the players Crows are likely to eventually include in their first choice 22, Stevens, Fitzgerald, Massie, Gallagher and Hewitt were missing. Johncock is probably also a first-choice player, and McGregor was out for most of the game.

That is a fair few, Macca, up to 7 in all. I would have said enough missing to have comfortably missed out on a "virtually full-strength" label.

But never mind, Macca, if the journos on the AFL website write it, it must be true, hey?
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Johncock a first team player :confused: Are you off your nutter mate?? Thats like me saying Barry Brooks is a first team player. If he gets a game by round 5 ill be very surprised...he isnt afl standard yet...had a good first half of the season with port last year....made WAY too many errors and mistakes and heck ups in the last half of the season. needs to sharpen his skills and defensive tendencies (often found his man 40m in the clear after johnno lost concentration and roamed forward) before he becomes a 'first team player'.

heck what the papers say. The headlines laughably said 'Crows beat reigning premiers' and failed to mention in the WHOLE article what players Brisbane were missing. Oh they said Brisbane were missing a host of stars...in the last sentence of the article. Bugger what the advertiser says.
 
Originally posted by Macca19


Johncock a first team player :confused: Are you off your nutter mate?? Thats like me saying Barry Brooks is a first team player. If he gets a game by round 5 ill be very surprised...he isnt afl standard yet...had a good first half of the season with port last year....made WAY too many errors and mistakes and heck ups in the last half of the season. needs to sharpen his skills and defensive tendencies (often found his man 40m in the clear after johnno lost concentration and roamed forward) before he becomes a 'first team player'.

heck what the papers say. The headlines laughably said 'Crows beat reigning premiers' and failed to mention in the WHOLE article what players Brisbane were missing. Oh they said Brisbane were missing a host of stars...in the last sentence of the article. Bugger what the advertiser says.
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A couple of Crows players (Roo included) have said that Johncock was in line to play for Crows this year. He was even compared a bit to Pickett. Why would he say that if he meant Handby or Shir or Doughty or someone else instead?

Apparently Johncock has had a very good preseason, and Crows would have been playing him in the Wizard cup to work out if he has shed some of his flakiness.

Don't get me wrong, Brisbane did have a lot of quality players out. But it is silly to take that into account but ignore that Crows had a few important players out also. Crows were not virtually full strength.

The other significant factor was the conditions. Despite what was said, I think Brisbane players are at least a little acclimatised to it, and this was the main reason for their improvement over Crows in the second half.

In the first half, when conditions had not yet sapped Crows, then Crows had complete control over the game. No other side has been able to do that at the Gabba for a long time.
 
Originally posted by ok.crows


A couple of Crows players (Roo included) have said that Johncock was in line to play for Crows this year. He was even compared a bit to Pickett. Why would he say that if he meant Handby or Shir or Doughty or someone else instead?
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Im sure he will play AFL footy at some stage this year. But saying he is a 'first team player' is suggesting he is in the crows best 18 right now..which he is not. Im sure Shaun Burgoyne will play AFL footy for Port some stage this year...that doesnt mean he is a first team player and i should count him as 'missing' from todays game.
He is like Pickett....tough, quick, hard at it...just is young and makes a lot of mistakes and judgemental errors at the moment. He will be a very good player in the future however.
 
Originally posted by SeinDude
It's the usual lines from supporters at this time of the year...

IF YOU WIN:
It was a good win. We showed some good signs, some of the younger players played well and we could have a lot to look forward to this year. We won with a few players out or underdone, but the kids really stood up.

IF YOU LOSE:
It doesn't matter at this time of the year. We had a number of players out and we were trying the kids. We dont take this pre-season comp seriously. Wait until round one!!


Go Cats!! :):)
SeinDude
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Well I wouldn't be saying any of that if the Blues had their expected round 1 side on the field. Sometimes there are excuses and sometimes there are facts. Some teams did have unexpected losses with very strong teams out there. They are the ones that should be concerned. It is true that some sides do not go all out to win by playing their best side. In Carlton's sake we have a lot of questions over us since SOS retired and Kouta was injured so we have to find a youngster to step up quickly. If we play one youngster and he fails, we have two preseason games left to try another. The Blues played several youngsters and will have an idea who looks more likely now. I really expect the likes of McKay or Ratten to return next week to provide some system out there to complement the youngsters that did show something. I am thrilled with some of what I saw from the Blues yesterday. Genuinely:)
 

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