- Banned
- #51
With Gary Ayres at the helm, we could be set for a great year at Crowland. He truly is the AFL's best kept secret.
Go Gary!
Go Gary!
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Taken a look in the mirror lately?
The handle theif stikes again. One day this guy will try something sophisticated and we will all have proof that evolution can occur within the one lifetime. Or not.
I'm not the one with outlandish claims that a list of names from Carlton is necessarily light years ahead of a list of names from elsewhere.
I do need a mirror to look at myself, to change my vision inward. You OTOH can apparently see nothing but your own.
- Banned
- #55
With my room covered in Gary Ayres photos and memorabilia, I think I have evolved a great deal, thankyou. I wasn't in awe of him so much until he turned our 0-5 start in 2000 into 9-13. What a turnaround! Ever since then, I have evolved to the stage that I am in awe of the great man.
Go Gary!
My say...
So you are telling me from one Pre-Season Cup game, that Carlton won't be competitive? Sheesh... it's only the Wizard Cup. Essendon lost all three games last year (they got thumped in fact), and yet they still managed to take 1st spot on ladder, and play in the Grand Final.
You cannot really come to a conclusion on a team's performance for the year simply from looking at a Pre-Season game on the first round, can you? That's like saying that "Essendon will struggle this year, since they lost their game against Port, during a glorified practice match (Wizard Cup).
One more think ok.crows: I have noticed that in every thread you post in generously on the Australian Football League Forum, the topic suddenly switches to a crow-fest
I can say that you make a great impact. Remember, the crows were not the only team undermanned.
So you are telling me from one Pre-Season Cup game, that Carlton won't be competitive? Sheesh... it's only the Wizard Cup. Essendon lost all three games last year (they got thumped in fact), and yet they still managed to take 1st spot on ladder, and play in the Grand Final.
You cannot really come to a conclusion on a team's performance for the year simply from looking at a Pre-Season game on the first round, can you? That's like saying that "Essendon will struggle this year, since they lost their game against Port, during a glorified practice match (Wizard Cup).
One more think ok.crows: I have noticed that in every thread you post in generously on the Australian Football League Forum, the topic suddenly switches to a crow-fest
I can say that you make a great impact. Remember, the crows were not the only team undermanned.Just a cheap shot Danny Boy, don't get narkyOriginally posted by Dan26
What's that got to do with anything that has been written on this thread? Bit confused with why you wrote that.
Btw - change your thing to "Essendon & AFL Spokesman - we won't think you're sexist, I promise
Re: My say...
To reply in approximate reverse order to your points, bcause I feel like it:
The Crows were not as undermanned as many other sides. They werre nnot full strength either, as originally claimed.
When I post material about other sides, people generally respond to me about what I have said about Crows, and that is how the topic gets too focussed.
I agree that for some sides the preseason form is not the same as the regular season. Essendon last year - excellent example.
But what about the other 15 sides last year? Have you thought of them, and their form preseason, and in the regular season? Perhaps their form wasn't as different as was the case for Bombers?
Which is the general case, and which is the exception?
Oh and BTW - do you still think Crows down by 50 points no discussion needed was a good call?
Originally posted by Thrawn
So you are telling me from one Pre-Season Cup game, that Carlton won't be competitive? Sheesh... it's only the Wizard Cup. Essendon lost all three games last year (they got thumped in fact), and yet they still managed to take 1st spot on ladder, and play in the Grand Final.
You cannot really come to a conclusion on a team's performance for the year simply from looking at a Pre-Season game on the first round, can you? That's like saying that "Essendon will struggle this year, since they lost their game against Port, during a glorified practice match (Wizard Cup).
One more think ok.crows: I have noticed that in every thread you post in generously on the Australian Football League Forum, the topic suddenly switches to a crow-fest
To reply in approximate reverse order to your points, bcause I feel like it:
The Crows were not as undermanned as many other sides. They werre nnot full strength either, as originally claimed.
When I post material about other sides, people generally respond to me about what I have said about Crows, and that is how the topic gets too focussed.
I agree that for some sides the preseason form is not the same as the regular season. Essendon last year - excellent example.
But what about the other 15 sides last year? Have you thought of them, and their form preseason, and in the regular season? Perhaps their form wasn't as different as was the case for Bombers?
Which is the general case, and which is the exception?
Oh and BTW - do you still think Crows down by 50 points no discussion needed was a good call?
The Old Dark Navy's
Moderator
- Moderator
- #59
I think you have over-inflated opinions of your football knowledge if you truly believe this rubbish. Go on and on about Johncock as being a missing player from your top lineup and then bag me for talking about missing star players from the Blues. Remember you are the one who suggested that the Blues should be taken to task for their loss whereas most others recognise we probably had the least experienced team out of all of them on the weekend.
West Coast were missing McIntosh and Phil Matera and others that I can't remember.
We'll forget all about Kouta as this season will be played without relying on him at all so consider these two teams:
Team A
Fletcher Manton Franchina
Sporn Beaumont Wiggins
Mansfield Plunkett Bradley
Eccles Hotton Lappin
Hulme Fevola Prendergast
Allan Camporeale Murphy
Inter: Merrington O'Keefe Livingston Gallagher Smith Thornton
Team B
Christou Manton Franchina
Mansfield Beaumont McKay
Camporeale Ratten Bradley
Houlihan McKernan Hickmott
Prendergast Whitnall Fevola
Allan Murphy Hulme
Inter: Plunkett Freeborn Hotton Fletcher Eccles Wiggins
Which one is better? Would you venture to say that one side is far superior to the other?
I mean Ratten, McKay, Whitnall are arguably the top 3 players at our club. Hickmott is not far away from there. Houlihan is set for stardom according to a lot of good judges and a vital goalscorer to boot. A fit Christou is one of the best attacking defenders in the comp and if we did throw Kouta into that mix ... well. You tell me, does that group of absentees not far exceed the players that West Coast had out?
Throw them up. We'll debate them player by player, I'll do polls if you like. However you want to play it but there is no way you will get a concensus saying that the group of Blues I just named are not far more vital than the players West Coast had out of their team collectively.
Has nothing to do with my image of my team. Just something any normal football fan should be able to recognise. Oh and I did commend West Coast on their own board so there is no sour grapes involved and to believe that Team B could not have beaten West Coast anyway on Saturday is fanciful. There is six goals in McKernan and Whitnall alone let alone Houla's and Ratten's drive. You are just trying to create something from nothing and it doesn't wash. We beat the Eagles by 119 points last year and not even Carlton would slide that fast.
You want to put your money on us for the spoon? Fair enough, charities give you a tax receipt too!
I did not claim Johncock necessarily in Crows top 22 ... Ricciuto did. Take it up with him.
I would have Johncock in Crows top 26 though and so he would have been in the squad to go to Brisbane. He missed out through injury. WTF is your problem with any of this?
As far as your getting the spoon goes ... who ever said that? All I have thought is that Carltons list is a little suspect ... missing as it does Kouta & SOS from last year and gaining only McKernan (of dubious added value). Your results on the weekend were a very poor showing. Half that team were your youngsters ... that shows does it not that you don't have up and coming replacements.
Bradley is seriously getting on, Whitnall is OK but only probably the sixth best CHF in the comp if that, Camporeale is a receiver who drys up if Ratten doesn't get the ball for him. Overall your midfield is decent enough but oh my what a big hole in defence you have! Your attack relies on plentiful supply although Lappin is a useful forward and Houlihan shows promise. Your whole team tends to over-posseess, which gives you good-looking stats for possession but not much productivity.
But hey, with work blues may patch something up to scrape enough games in the first part of the year to leave you still in contention when Kouta returns. But when he does he will be coming off a knee injury after all.
Anyone can be wrong, but IMO 2002 doesn't look good for blues.
I thought the Crows tore us to shreads in the first half with all their class acts on top. I couldn't see how the Lions were even going to score, such was their haphazard methods going forward, and they had no in-and-under presence. And some of the coaching 'experimental' matchups were .. interesting.
It took a few focused efforts from the established stars to get the ball rolling our way, but it seemed that the younger Lions players were overawed , or just couldn't get into the team plan that was so successful last year. That's why it's hard to go back-to-back I guess.
I thought McLeod really wanted to show us who should have won the Brownlow - he is a superb player , and I felt Aker responded likewise in the second half. It was great to have such talents on display first up.
The best thing for the Lions was - no one was injured.
It took a few focused efforts from the established stars to get the ball rolling our way, but it seemed that the younger Lions players were overawed , or just couldn't get into the team plan that was so successful last year. That's why it's hard to go back-to-back I guess.
I thought McLeod really wanted to show us who should have won the Brownlow - he is a superb player , and I felt Aker responded likewise in the second half. It was great to have such talents on display first up.
The best thing for the Lions was - no one was injured.
Lions established players Lappin, Akermanis, Hart & Brown in particular gained control of the game in the second half and got the team going to the extent that Lions outscored Crows in the second half by over two-to-one. Crows only just barely managed to stay in it.
Perhaps Lions players were a little more acclimatised to the conditions, and Crows losing McGregor did not help Crows cause, but maybe it just took Lions that first half to shake out the cobwebs and get going?
Lions were very good in the second half considering how many were missing.
Again you are most stupidly basing this on one game. Due to necessity (injuries) last year WCE had to blood their youngsters. So when put up against our youngsters, most of whom are virtually untried, of course we are going to struggle.
I'm still willing to bet you (a slab perhaps?) that we will finish above you this year.
Naaah. I've thought for yonks that Carlton were in trouble this year. That is a lot more than one game!
Carlton themselves say they don't rebuild, and boy they sure proved it in spades, didn't they?
From my POV that just proves how willing you are to give away a slab. Nevertheless I don't bet. I'd far rather obtain income through endeavour, but that is my personal choice and I don't expect you to understand it.
Oh please. Get off your high horse. Talking footy with you is more than enough endeavour for my liking.
Originally posted by Blues2001
I didn't think you would understand it. If anyone else wants to bet on things that is fine and dandy by me, but I choose not to for my own reasons. What sometimes annoys me is that in this country people often take an unwillingness to bet as a sign of cowardice, or lack of conviction, or weakness, or (as apparently in your case) being a prude or moralist.
In my case none of those things apply, but it is so damned difficult to convince anyone of this. Let me assure you though it has nothing to do with a high horse attitude.
But perhaps there was just the one thing that I would have bet on (metaphorically speaking) - that no matter what I said, my position "I don't bet" would draw a negative reaction from you.
No, you have me completely wrong. I definitely respect your decision not to bet. It was the patronising "I don't expect you to understand" remark that I didn't like. I wasn't really serious about the bet because I know you don't bet and that is fine with me (not at all cowardly) - but why wouldn't I understand?
Sorry about that then. It is just I suppose that you get such a bad reaction so very often when you say "I don't bet".
The only reason I would not expect you (or anyone) to understand is that my reasons are fairly long, complicated, personal and so thouroughly boring and I simply am not going to reveal them.
So how could you understand if you don't know the details?
My comment had nothing at all to do with your ability to understand, nor even anything to do with my estimation fo your ability.
You just don't have the facts is all.
I probably deserved that, but you are as one-eyed in relation to yourself as you are to your club.
I find you very similar to Dan, except:
Dan has a much wider range of interests
Dan is much more objective and able to admit that Essendon is not the be all and end all...although he does think that logic is the be all.
I find you very similar to Dan, except:
Dan has a much wider range of interests
Dan is much more objective and able to admit that Essendon is not the be all and end all...although he does think that logic is the be all.
I think you may just be reading my position a bit wrong.
For example, I don't think Crows are the be all and end all. No "greatest club" stuff from me. Where Crows have done OK I will say so. Where I think they will do OK I will say so. This year I think Crows can get just ahead of Carlton maybe. With luck a couple of more wins than last year, perhaps 14 wins. Carlton to get perhaps one less win (since they seem to be in a slightly worse position than they wore last year), putting Crows just ahead. Not definate, just IMO likely.
That does not sound like a "be all and end all" position to me and it does not seem to lack objectivity.
It certainly sounds far less like such a position than often you find Carlton supporters themselves hold about the blues.
That my view and I'm sticking to it. To me it is an objective enough view.
BTW, I never said I wasn't stubborn.
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Thats my bone of contention.
Hmmm...
As for the other sides, I didn't use much thought into that area, since I only need one example (the Essendon one). But I did take a few more examples just mor a bit more variety:
Port Adeladie won the Pre-Season Cup last year. They did well in the proper season but didn't reach the Pelim. Final. Richmond, on the other hand, did not make it to the semis of the Pre-Season Cup, yet they managed to finish 3rd. Carlton didn't make the semis during the Pre-season, yet we managed to enter the finals and finally face defeat in the semis against Richmond.
So you can't really "predict" how a team with go, by just looking at one game of the pre-season. Why, Fremantle beat Hawthorn by 80+ points last year, during the Ansett Cup. But did they thrash another team in the proper season like they did Hawthorn? No. Ironically, their best win was against your mob, won my 30-something points if I can remember correctly.
As for the tips, it doesn't matter. I had only one selection right, and that was Sydney Usually, I tip the favourites for the Pre-Season, but it can go either way as I found out! I was way off on all of them but one basically.
Gee... you've got almost the whole BigFooty Carlton squad replying to your points ok.crows. Now all we need is Bee, Meg, Starchild and Blues^Rock to get into the action (sorry if I missed any other supporters).
As for the other sides, I didn't use much thought into that area, since I only need one example (the Essendon one). But I did take a few more examples just mor a bit more variety:
Port Adeladie won the Pre-Season Cup last year. They did well in the proper season but didn't reach the Pelim. Final. Richmond, on the other hand, did not make it to the semis of the Pre-Season Cup, yet they managed to finish 3rd. Carlton didn't make the semis during the Pre-season, yet we managed to enter the finals and finally face defeat in the semis against Richmond.
So you can't really "predict" how a team with go, by just looking at one game of the pre-season. Why, Fremantle beat Hawthorn by 80+ points last year, during the Ansett Cup. But did they thrash another team in the proper season like they did Hawthorn? No. Ironically, their best win was against your mob, won my 30-something points if I can remember correctly.
As for the tips, it doesn't matter. I had only one selection right, and that was Sydney
Usually, I tip the favourites for the Pre-Season, but it can go either way as I found out! I was way off on all of them but one basically.Gee... you've got almost the whole BigFooty Carlton squad replying to your points ok.crows. Now all we need is Bee, Meg, Starchild and Blues^Rock to get into the action (sorry if I missed any other supporters).
