Unstoppable for 11 years

[Queensl@nder]

When talking about St George Dragons from the years 1956-1966, it's almost impossible to know where to start. The Dragons became the greatest Rugby League club the world has ever seen when they went on a winning streak of 11 premierships in a row.


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[SIZE=-1]The events of the 40s and up until 1955 had shown enough to suggest St George had a few premierships [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]in them but no one imagined what was to follow.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]For 11 years, the Mighty Dragons won the premiership competition, taking out every grand final.No other sport in the World has ever come close to this record.[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

But they're not very popular.

Well, not as popular as any of the AFL teams

 

[The Stifmeister]

Sh1t!!! My NM have only ever won one flag in a row. but we'll get that record of st. George some day. but seriously thats a remarkable achivment.

 

[Christabella]

And who stopped them after those 11 long years?
Yay Bulldogs .... only to have that evil McCarthy pinch our premiership!

Sh1t!!! My NM have only ever won one flag in a row. but we'll get that record of st. George some day

We will? Hope I'm still alive to see it.

 

[sydney eagle]

And who stopped them after those 11 long years?
Yay Bulldogs .... only to have that evil McCarthy pinch our premiership!


We will? Hope I'm still alive to see it.

Nah you Bulldogs (or Berries as it was then !) only kicked the carcass of the Dragons after we Rabbitohs had knocked them out for you ! And you could say that you got your revenge on Souths (and Bob McCarthy) by signing "The Redfern Express" some years later !

 

[CumberlandsAshes]

Here's a juicy debate topic:

Was it the limited tackle rule, introduced in 1967, that ended St. George's run? And, was the rule brought with the real intention of halting St. George's domination?

Hmmm...

 

[meltiger]

Here's a juicy debate topic:

Was it the limited tackle rule, introduced in 1967, that ended St. George's run? And, was the rule brought with the real intention of halting St. George's domination?

Hmmm...

^ Saints fans like to claim that.


My memory of the history is contrary to propaganda, the rule was proposed by the English


More pertinent would be possibly to discuss the cheating from the ref that went on in the Canterbury/St George final in 1967 that stopped St George.


What really stopped them though was Cronulla-Sutherland's inclusion. That took a whole swathe of their junior league off to another team. Remember, Cronulla were playing GF's in the '70s. If they hadn't ever existed, and those players still belonged to St George (who also made a couple of GF's in the '70's) it's very arguable that St George would have also dominated the '70s


Kind of like it's doubtful that if Wenty had of been included as they should have in 67 that Parramatta would have been as dominant as they were in the early to mid 80's

 

[Bomber Bears]

The team that should've been included rather than Cronulla would be Illawarra

Meltiger, were you a balmain fan first then more of a richmond person after the merger etc?

 

[meltiger]

^ Lived in Sydney till I was 9, then moved to Melbourne. Since 16 have chopped and changed between both cities.


Chose Richmond when I moved down because I was a Balmain supporter, so my support of RL predates my AR support.


2008 was my 12th year of membership with Richmond though, so it's not like I simply turned to them after Balmain merged or anything like that.


re:Illawarra ... Of course you wouldn't be biased In a Sydney only comp, there is nothing wrong with Cronulla-Carringbah having been given the promotion at that time. Given you had one insanely dominant outfit in the region, it made sense.


Although in fairness.. the other expansion, history tells us Penrith was a much wiser choice over the long run, even if Wenty deserved promotion.

 

[CumberlandsAshes]

The Illawarra competition around that time was extremely strong. In fact, after missing out on promotion to the Premiership, Wenty joined that competition in search of better competition. As it turns out the most dominant team outside the Sydney Premiership hardly made a dent down there.

Although in fairness.. the other expansion, history tells us Penrith was a much wiser choice over the long run, even if Wenty deserved promotion.

Absolutely - shows the potential folly of promotion and relegation.

One suspects, however, that they would have relocated up the Great Western Highway eventually - Penrith too large an area to be ignored. Either that or inevitably merge with Parramatta.

Like St. George, it's hard to imagine how dominant Wenty were - making every Grand Final in the old Second Division between '64 and '73 and winning all but two of them.

 

[meltiger]

The Illawarra competition around that time was extremely strong. In fact, after missing out on promotion to the Premiership, Wenty joined that competition in search of better competition. As it turns out the most dominant team outside the Sydney Premiership hardly made a dent down there.

With so little documented of the time though, one wonders if Wenty at the time made a big push to absoloutely dominate the second division, to gain entry to the top grade. Hard to know if when Parramatta/NSWRL blocked them out, if they had a mass exodus of players & never quite recovered.

Absolutely - shows the potential folly of promotion and relegation.

One suspects, however, that they would have relocated up the Great Western Highway eventually - Penrith too large an area to be ignored. Either that or inevitably merge with Parramatta.

I think come Super League time, the bolded would have been more likely. Could you imagine the local rivalry though!

Like St. George, it's hard to imagine how dominant Wenty were - making every Grand Final in the old Second Division between '64 and '73 and winning all but two of them.

I'm actually lucky when talking the events of '67 and the Saints/Wenty domination in having a father who was born/grew up in Cronulla but spent his late teens/early 20's in Blacktown. Grew up a St George supporter but went every week with his mates to support Wenty when he moved out to Blacktown. Given the lack of real documentation/history/first hand accounts of the 2nd division especially, he is a gold mine of info.


Now he could be lookng through Wenty blinked goggles but he's always hammered home to me all my life about how they were screwed by the League & Parramatta. Always been adamant they would have become the Western power that Parramatta are now thanks to the land they owned at the time etc


He was thrilled when I told him Wentworthville was playing in the State Cup Grand Final ... You should have seen the look on his face when I told him who they really are nowadays

 

[CumberlandsAshes]

With so little documented of the time though, one wonders if Wenty at the time made a big push to absoloutely dominate the second division, to gain entry to the top grade. Hard to know if when Parramatta/NSWRL blocked them out, if they had a mass exodus of players & never quite recovered.

Seems that both Wenty and Penrith played this game in trying to win the Second Division title... Wenty had a Welsh International and Penrith had a bunch of Premiership players.

According to our friend, Mr Fagan:

http://www.rl1908.com/Clubs/Penrith-Panthers.htm

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Penrith were preferred by the NSWRL due to their location, but with Wales' star Lewis Jones in their ranks the Wentworthville club had the form on the field. Needing to win the 1966 title, the Penrith club went on a spending-spree of Sydney clubs picking up established first graders Tony Brown, Bob Landers, Doug Ricketson, Barry Harris and Jack Sinclair.

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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]While Penrith went on to win the 1966 Second Division title, the NSWRL had already made its decision to allow Penrith into the competition. It seems that Parramatta's portrayal of nearby Wentworthville's negative impact on the Eels junior and supporter base swayed the League's decision in favour of the more remotely located Penrith.[/FONT]​

Very interesting.

Now he could be lookng through Wenty blinked goggles but he's always hammered home to me all my life about how they were screwed by the League & Parramatta. Always been adamant they would have become the Western power that Parramatta are now thanks to the land they owned at the time etc

When I used to go to Metro Cup games back in the mid to late 90s I used to meet a few grizzled old Wenty folk who would repeat this particular claim and to their credit it seems to be true - they were dudded, but with good reason!

Wenty would always have struggled for support especially with big brother barely a couple of km's down the road (and attracting good crowds for the day to Cumberland Oval) - and I don't know where they would have built their NRL-approved stadium, the land at Ringrose Park is clearly too small for anything but a small suburban Oval. A nice place to watch a game of footy, though.

He was thrilled when I told him Wentworthville was playing in the State Cup Grand Final ... You should have seen the look on his face when I told him who they really are nowadays

Indeed - I guess that merger did happen! At least at that Second tier level.
​

 

[meltiger]

Mate where did you source that stuff from Sean about the decision? His website?

 

[CumberlandsAshes]

Mate where did you source that stuff from Sean about the decision? His website?

Apologies. Should have referenced it... in his "History of the Penrith Panthers" -- you can also see stuff about Wenty in the Cronulla one too.

http://www.rl1908.com/Clubs/Penrith-Panthers.htm

 

[meltiger]

^ Fantastic, thanks mate. That was top info. Sean does do a fantastic job.

 

[CumberlandsAshes]

^ Fantastic, thanks mate. That was top info. Sean does do a fantastic job.

He does. The refernce to a Welsh International playing at Wenty is a fascinating tidbit of information...

Here we go -- Lewis Jones is actually in the Rugby league Hall of Fame and was a star of the 1954 GB tour of Oz... he was Captain Coach of the Maggies.

http://www.rlhalloffame.org.uk/jones.htm

 

[meltiger]

Had a look at The page for Cronulla-Sutherland and found the info you mention from there very interesting.

Despite objections from more financially powerful Wentworthville club, the League selected Penrith and Cronulla. Against Wentworthville's claims was its geographic proximity to Parramatta who were still struggling themselves to maintain premiership credibility.

Tends to support the claims of the old Wenty fans

 

[Aucklander]

Had a look at The page for Cronulla-Sutherland and found the info you mention from there very interesting.

Tends to support the claims of the old Wenty fans

I hope you stick around mate.

 

[Bomber Bears]

I believe Illawarra joining the competition was blocked by the CRL. They probably would've been sucessful then, with the talent they were about to get and the key of going through an established leagues club rather than starting there own.
The likes of langlands, Keith Barnes, Bob Fulton Steve Roach, Gary Jack, John Dorahy etc all came into the comp over the 20 year period before the Illawarra were finally granted a licence.

In retrospect giving a licence to a small area such as cronulla with small supporter base was short sighted when the Illawarra could've been a much better prospect.

 

[CumberlandsAshes]

I believe Illawarra joining the competition was blocked by the CRL.

Sean agrees with you...

http://www.rl1908.com/Clubs/Illawarra-Steelers.htm

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Thoughts of entry into the NSWRL competition had first arisen in 1939 after South Coast (Group 7) defeated eventual Sydney premiers Balmain in the State Cup - the arrival of WW2 soon put an end to that. The entry of Manly and Parramatta in 1947 further delayed any push for Illawarra's inclusion until a serious attempt was made in late 1954. The bid though was thwarted by the Country Rugby League which feared losing such an integral part of its playing stocks.

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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Rugby league in the Illawarra continued to be strong and in the early 1960s had wins over Parramatta, Canterbury, Wests and Toowoomba under its belt. The CRL repeatedly vetoed all approaches by Illawarra to the NSWRL for inclusion in the Sydney competition.

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[gostk86]

St George Dragons from 1956-66 are the greatest ever sporting team..in the history of the world.

No team ever will win 11 straight titles

 

[meltiger]

I believe Illawarra joining the competition was blocked by the CRL. They probably would've been sucessful then, with the talent they were about to get and the key of going through an established leagues club rather than starting there own.

Are you saying that they would have used an existing club down there rather than the laughable complex they have across the road from WIN? (Admittedly, I haven't been to a game in Wool for about 7 years, so the club may have improved since then)


Would have been interesting to say the least, given what Cumberland has quoted about their on field success, if you gave them a 15 year head start on their eventual admission and a half decent sized club behind them.

The likes of langlands, Keith Barnes, Bob Fulton Steve Roach, Gary Jack, John Dorahy etc all came into the comp over the 20 year period before the Illawarra were finally granted a licence.

In fairness, if we are talking purely the 1967 expansion ... You can't legitmately include Golden Boots in that list. But given the bolded names ... I'm kinda glad they didn't get in

In retrospect giving a licence to a small area such as cronulla with small supporter base was short sighted when the Illawarra could've been a much better prospect.

Possibly. Something had to be done about St George though. They simply became too powerful. If anyone believes Cronulla's admission wasn't in big part due to a desire to split Saints catchment in half, you're kidding yourself.


I certainly am not saying the South Coast should not have gained admission, only that they shouldn't have at the expense of a team that was genuinely needed the Southern Suburbns. In terms of the Sydney clubs, who else bar Parramatta would have had such a huge local area to draw players from back in those times? Parramatta obviously being different in that they hadn't been established for anywhere near as long at the time.


Looking at the situation through hindsight, yes in the modern times, especially when SL arrived, St George still having the area South of the river would have been better, but by the same token, would St George dominating the League for another 20 years longer than they did also have been a positive?


(Remembering that even though Cronulla joined 1st grade in 67, their juniors were competing under the Cronulla banner for 5 years previous, so Cronulla's entry did have a distinct impact on the St George club)


Then again, the South Coast probably have half a team thanks to St George having been weakened back then... Remember, they were not gaurenteed entry, and looking at what the NRL did the GC & Perth, the Steelers would have been very hard pressed to survive the initial 98 cull)

 

[Queensl@nder]

St George Dragons from 1956-66 are the greatest ever sporting team..in the history of the world.

No team ever will win 11 straight titles

Wigan came close I think with 8 CC titles in a row?

 

[thegreenmachine]

Wasn't it by coincidence that they decided to bring in the 6-tackle rule (because I believe there were no limits back in those days)?
But yeah, it doesn't matter what era it was when the game would have been more uncompetitive, it is a sensational achievement that will almost certainly remain a world record in a major rugby league competition forever.

 

[Jumpin' Jimmy]

St George Dragons from 1956-66 are the greatest ever sporting team..in the history of the world.

No team ever will win 11 straight titles

.... and only one man has ever won 10 straight premierships