Play Nice USA President Donald Trump -Game On

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Val Keating said:
The campaigner is an


He’s proved himself to be a moron, and at least a narcissist and worst a psychopath. Oh and don’t forget he’s without doubt a racist & misogynist.
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You have hit all the key buzzwords, except for Nazi, white supremacist and fascist. ;) I'll treat buzzwords as what they are, buzzwords.

Not a complete moron considering he is a savvy enough businessman, gained the presidency and has been able to correctly call out media hypocrisy time and again. Politically, he's a complete and utter twit. Narcissist, probably, most politicians are or are at least very arrogant/ruthless, psychopath, maybe, he wouldn't be the first nor the last in politics to be like that, racist, still waiting for actual evidence on this one, the Muslim ban and the wall are not legitimate examples (I have covered this in the gender thread), sexist, maybe, probably more of a womanizer than a genuine woman hater, those two are often conflated. I don't care about his personality in the end, I only care about the policies in the end as they are the only things that matter and shape the world at large.


Not so much a whataboutism, but more of a segway talking about political parallels.

AOC, as an individual politician, scares me more than Trump and is far more of an extremist than he is. Unlike Trump, she actually is on the political extreme and is proud of her socialism. Trump is an unconventional conservative, but just that, a republican conservative. His policies are little different to that of previous administrations, including democratic presidents and has proven less of a warmonger than Obama (i.e. North Korea and the Syria withdrawal and wanting to limit US military interventions, unlike Obama did in completing destabilising Libya for years via NATO with Gaddafi. Even Trump's China stuff has largely been trade related, he didn't announce things like the Pivot that Obama did as a direct military and economic (strategic) threat to China).
 
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Val Keating said:
I doubt he’s a nazi because he’s definitely a pro American. You don’t think he’s a racist?
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What's wrong with being pro-American? There is a very long stretch between being a civic/cultural nationalist (In the American case study, which is based on the rights and freedoms established by the American funding fathers) and a Nazi, who are ultra-nationalists who base their nationalism on racial eugenics.

There are many on the left who hate nationalism because they are too intellectually lazy to distinguish the nationalist variants and attribute nationalism purely to war-mongering and racism. A solid example of civic nationalism has actually come from ALP in the past; protecting Australia's national economic interests via tariffs and participation in the Sterling Bloc against the USA. Billy Hughes pushing for Australia's national interests ahead of multilaterialism at the Versailles Conference and Curtin withdrawing Australian divisions from North Africa to protect Australia are other forms of civic (citizen) based nationalism. Trump's nationalism is definitely in that the category of civic nationalism instead of ethnic based nationalism. When some talk about the primacy of American culture, some see it as racist and even white supremacist, but that is discounting all the people of the all the various ethnic backgrounds that formed that culture and continue to protect the national virtues that made the country what it is. As for believing in the primacy or protection of one's national interests, every country in the world does that and fighting for one's national rights is not necessarily a bad thing and is quite often a good thing. Australian nationalists fought ultra-nationalist Nazi's in the Second World War out of civic national duty to their country.

Based on current available evidence, no I do not believe that Trump is a racist. Historically ignorant, sure, culturally ignorant, definitely, abrasive, sure, political incorrect, that's his whole sthick, but does he thinks that white Americans are intrinsically better than other races, no, that is sheer nonsense at this stage. The Mexican Wall is a non-example as that has been a much broader issue for decades, with various presidents of all backgrounds pumping billions into southern border protections, including walls. The Muslim ban is an even weaker example, I post my response via the Gender Thread:

Not racism, if it was racist, why not all Muslim countries, why specifically those seven countries? Iraq (Destablised with ISIS sympathisers, despite close Iraq-US political and military ties), Iran (a lot of political and historical issues here), Libya (Destablised with a lot of ISIS sympathisers), Somalia (Destablised state with issues with poverty related piracy), Sudan (human rights and other issues here), Syria (obvious reasons) and Yemen (destablised state with a lot of issues, many of them with US origins). Plenty of other Islamic countries with deep extremist and terrorist links did not receive the same restrictions. Is the policy way over the top, certainly, ignorant, certainly, should Trump be more enlightened on the broader Islamic factions and their systems, certainly, but the policy is not fundamentally racist at its core.
 
Kangaroos4eva said:
What's wrong with being pro-American? There is a very long stretch between being a civic/cultural nationalist (In the American case study, which is based on the rights and freedoms established by the American funding fathers) and a Nazi, who are ultra-nationalists who base their nationalism on racial eugenics.

There are many on the left who hate nationalism because they are too intellectually lazy to distinguish the nationalist variants and attribute nationalism purely to war-mongering and racism. A solid example of civic nationalism has actually come from ALP in the past; protecting Australia's national economic interests via tariffs and participation in the Sterling Bloc against the USA. Billy Hughes pushing for Australia's national interests ahead of multilaterialism at the Versailles Conference and Curtin withdrawing Australian divisions from North Africa to protect Australia are other forms of civic (citizen) based nationalism. Trump's nationalism is definitely in that the category of civic nationalism instead of ethnic based nationalism. When some talk about the primacy of American culture, some see it as racist and even white supremacist, but that is discounting all the people of the all the various ethnic backgrounds that formed that culture and continue to protect the national virtues that made the country what it is. As for believing in the primacy or protection of one's national interests, every country in the world does that and fighting for one's national rights is not necessarily a bad thing and is quite often a good thing. Australian nationalists fought ultra-nationalist Nazi's in the Second World War out of civic national duty to their country.

Based on current available evidence, no I do not believe that Trump is a racist. Historically ignorant, sure, culturally ignorant, definitely, abrasive, sure, political incorrect, that's his whole sthick, but does he thinks that white Americans are intrinsically better than other races, no, that is sheer nonsense at this stage. The Mexican Wall is a non-example as that has been a much broader issue for decades, with various presidents of all backgrounds pumping billions into southern border protections, including walls. The Muslim ban is an even weaker example, I post my response via the Gender Thread:

Not racism, if it was racist, why not all Muslim countries, why specifically those seven countries? Iraq (Destablised with ISIS sympathisers, despite close Iraq-US political and military ties), Iran (a lot of political and historical issues here), Libya (Destablised with a lot of ISIS sympathisers), Somalia (Destablised state with issues with poverty related piracy), Sudan (human rights and other issues here), Syria (obvious reasons) and Yemen (destablised state with a lot of issues, many of them with US origins). Plenty of other Islamic countries with deep extremist and terrorist links did not receive the same restrictions. Is the policy way over the top, certainly, ignorant, certainly, should Trump be more enlightened on the broader Islamic factions and their systems, certainly, but the policy is not fundamentally racist at its core.
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Sorry mate, I’m tired, I didn’t read that. Do you think he’s racist? Yes or no?
 

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Yeah, all this is copy and paste. I’m tired. If you can’t see the problem with trump then you’re part of the problem. He’s a spoiled rich kid who’s grown up thinking everything is his if he wants it. Cant understand why anyone would support him. He’s looking out for No.1.

The Justice Department undertook its own investigation and, in 1973, sued Trump Management for discriminating against blacks. Both Fred Trump, the company’s chairman, and Donald Trump, its president, were named as defendants. It was front-page news, and for Donald, amounted to his debut in the public eye.

  • 1973: The US Department of Justice — under the Nixon administration, out of all administrations — sued the Trump Management Corporation for violating the Fair Housing Act. Federal officials found evidencethat Trump had refused to rent to black tenants and lied to black applicants about whether apartments were available, among other accusations. Trump said the federal government was trying to get him to rent to welfare recipients. In the aftermath, he signed an agreement in 1975 agreeing not to discriminate to renters of color without admitting to discriminating before.
  • 1980s: Kip Brown, a former employee at Trump's Castle, accused another one of Trump's businesses of discrimination. "When Donald and Ivana came to the casino, the bosses would order all the black people off the floor," Brown said. "It was the eighties, I was a teenager, but I remember it: They put us all in the back."
  • 1988: In a commencement speech at Lehigh University, Trump spent much of his speechaccusing countries like Japan of "stripping the United States of economic dignity." This matches much of his current rhetoric on China.
  • 1989: In a controversial case that’s been characterized as a modern-day lynching, four black teenagers and one Latino teenager — the "Central Park Five" — were accused of attacking and raping a jogger in New York City. Trump immediately took charge in the case, running an ad in local papers demanding, "BRING BACK THE DEATH PENALTY. BRING BACK OUR POLICE!" The teens’ convictions were later vacated after they spent seven to 13 years in prison, and the city paid $41 million in a settlement to the teens. But Trump in October 2016 said he still believes they’re guilty, despite the DNA evidence to the contrary.
  • 1991: A book by John O’Donnell, former president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, quoted Trump’s criticism of a black accountant: "Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control." Trump at first denied the remarks, but later said in a 1997 Playboy interview that "the stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true."
  • 1992: The Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino had to pay a $200,000 fine because it transferred black and women dealers off tables to accommodate a big-time gambler’s prejudices.
  • 2000: In opposition to a casino proposed by the St. Regis Mohawk tribe, which he saw as a financial threat to his casinos in Atlantic City, Trump secretly ran a series of ads suggesting the tribe had a "record of criminal activity [that] is well documented."
  • 2004: In season two of The Apprentice, Trump fired Kevin Allen, a black contestant, for being overeducated. "You're an unbelievably talented guy in terms of education, and you haven’t done anything," Trump said on the show. "At some point you have to say, ‘That’s enough.’"
  • 2005: Trump publicly pitched what was essentially The Apprentice: White People vs. Black People. He said he "wasn't particularly happy" with the most recent season of his show, so he was considering "an idea that is fairly controversial — creating a team of successful African Americans versus a team of successful whites. Whether people like that idea or not, it is somewhat reflective of our very vicious world."
  • 2010: In 2010, there was a huge national controversy over the "Ground Zero Mosque" — a proposal to build a Muslim community center in Lower Manhattan, near the site of the 9/11 attacks. Trump opposed the project, calling it "insensitive," and offered to buy outone of the investors in the project. On The Late Show With David Letterman, Trump argued, referring to Muslims, "Well, somebody’s blowing us up. Somebody’s blowing up buildings, and somebody’s doing lots of bad stuff."
  • 2011: Trump played a big role in pushing false rumors that Obama — the country’s first black president — was not born in the US. He even sent investigators to Hawaii to look into Obama's birth certificate. Obama later released his birth certificate, calling Trump a "carnival barker." (The research has found a strong correlation between "birtherism," as this conspiracy theory is called, and racism.) Trump has reportedly continued pushing this conspiracy theory in private.
  • 2011: While Trump suggested that Obama wasn’t born in the US, he also argued that maybe Obama wasn’t a good enough student to have gotten into Columbia or Harvard Law School, and demanded Obama release his university transcripts. Trump claimed, "I heard he was a terrible student. Terrible. How does a bad student go to Columbia and then to Harvard?"
As a candidate and president, Trump has made many more racist comments

On top of all that history, Trump has repeatedly made racist — often explicitly so — remarks on the campaign trail and as president:

  • Trump launched his campaign in 2015 by calling Mexican immigrants "rapists" who are "bringing crime" and "bringing drugs" to the US. His campaign was largely built on building a wall to keep these immigrants out of the US.
  • As a candidate in 2015, Trump called for a ban on all Muslims coming into the US. His administration’s attempts at implementing a watered-down version of this policy have been contested in courts.
  • When asked at a 2016 Republican debate whether all 1.6 billion Muslims hate the US, Trump said, "I mean a lot of them. I mean a lot of them."
  • He argued in 2016 that Judge Gonzalo Curiel — who was overseeing the Trump University lawsuit — should recuse himself from the case because of his Mexican heritage and membership in a Latino lawyers association. House Speaker Paul Ryan, who endorsed Trump, later called such comments "the textbook definition of a racist comment."
  • Trump has been repeatedly slow to condemn white supremacists who endorse him, and he regularly retweeted messages from white supremacists and neo-Nazis during his presidential campaign.
  • He tweeted and later deleted an image that showed Hillary Clinton in front of a pile of money and by a Jewish Star of David that said, "Most Corrupt Candidate Ever!" The tweet had some very obvious anti-Semitic imagery, but Trump insisted that the star was a sheriff’s badge, and said his campaign shouldn’t have deleted it.
  • Trump has repeatedly referred to Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), who has said she has Cherokee ancestors, as "Pocahontas."
  • At the 2016 Republican convention, Trump officially seized the mantle of the "law and order" candidate — an obvious dog whistleplaying to white fears of black crime, even though crime in the US is historically low. His speeches, comments, and executive actions after he took office have continued this line of messaging.
  • In a pitch to black voters in 2016, Trump said, "You’re living in poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs, 58 percent of your youth is unemployed. What the hell do you have to lose?"
  • Trump stereotyped a black reporter at a press conference in February 2017. When April Ryan asked him if he plans to meet and work with the Congressional Black Caucus, he repeatedly asked her to set up the meeting — even as she insisted that she’s "just a reporter."
  • In the week after white supremacist protests in Charlottesville, Virginia, in August 2017, Trump repeatedly said that "many sides" and "both sides" were to blame for the violence and chaos that ensued — suggesting that the white supremacist protesters were morally equivalent to counterprotesters that stood against racism. He also said that there were "some very fine people" among the white supremacists. All of this seemed like a dog whistle to white supremacists — and many of them took it as one, with white nationalist Richard Spencer praising Trump for "defending the truth."
  • Throughout 2017, Trump repeatedly attacked NFL players who, by kneeling or otherwise silently protesting during the national anthem, demonstrated against systemic racism in America.
  • Trump reportedly said in 2017 that people who came to the US from Haiti "all have AIDS," and he lamented that people who came to the US from Nigeria would never "go back to their huts" once they saw America. The White House denied that Trump ever made these comments.
  • Speaking about immigration in a bipartisan meeting in January 2018, Trump reportedly asked, in reference to Haiti and African countries, "Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?" He then reportedly suggested that the US should take more people from countries like Norway. The implication: Immigrants from predominantly white countries are good, while immigrants from predominantly black countries are bad.
  • Trump denied making the "shithole" comments, although some senators present at the meeting said they happened. The White House, meanwhile, suggested that the comments, like Trump’s remarks about the NFL protests, will play well to his base. The only connection between Trump’s remarks about the NFL protests and his "shithole" comments is race.
​
 
Kangaroos4eva said:
I often agree with criticisms of certain right wing elements....
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Out of interest, K4e, what would they be (circa now)?

Can you expand?

Kangaroos4eva said:
You have hit all the key buzzwords, except for Nazi, white supremacist and fascist. ;) I'll treat buzzwords as what they are, buzzwords.
Click to expand...

'Narcissist', 'psychopath', and 'racist', aren't really buzzwords in the strictest sense though, are they? No matter how de rigueur their overuse may be in certain circles these days.

'Moron' definitely isn't a buzzword. That's a time-honored classic!

But I agree with the sentiment. Buzzwords are for the tip, and often only serve to detract from meaningful political discussion. Whenever I hear or read terms like 'sjw' and 'virtue signalling' (and yes, their equivalents on the other side of the political fence), I just assume the person employing them is a 'moron'.

Although I guess the upside is that people who choose to employ these asinine terms to rail against every political or societal development/progression that they disagree with (no matter how trivial or insignificant), usually just buy themselves an express, one-way ticket straight to Self-Parody Station.
 
For those who may be interested....

Chomsky on Trump (from an interview last year).....


From the point of US elites, he’s giving them everything they want. In fact, what’s going on in the United States is kind of a two-tier wrecking ball. Whether this is conscious or not, I don’t know. But you can see what’s happening – Trump’s role is to ensure that the media and public attention are always concentrated on him. So every time you turn on a TV set – Trump. Open the front page of a newspaper – Trump. He’s a conman....basically a showman. And in order to maintain public attention, you have to do something crazy, otherwise no-one’s going to pay any attention to you. So everyday there’s one insane thing after another.

And while this show is going on in public, in the background the wrecking crew is working...Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell...the guys in the Cabinet who write his Executive Orders...what they’re doing is systematically dismantling every aspect of government that works for the benefit of the population. This goes from worker’s rights, to pollution of the environment, rules for protecting consumers. I mean, anything you can think of is being dismantled. And all efforts are being devoted – almost with fanaticism – to enrich and empower their actual constituency, which is super-wealth and corporate power.


And some other fairly recent stuff he's had to say on the same subject....

https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...rump-and-republican-allies-criminally-insane/

https://www.globalpolicyjournal.com...ter-noam-chomsky-trump-and-future-us-politics

https://www.alternet.org/2018/05/noam-chomsky-donald-trump-and-me-first-doctrine/
 
Val Keating said:
Yeah, all this is copy and paste. I’m tired. If you can’t see the problem with trump then you’re part of the problem. He’s a spoiled rich kid who’s grown up thinking everything is his if he wants it. Cant understand why anyone would support him. He’s looking out for No.1.

The Justice Department undertook its own investigation and, in 1973, sued Trump Management for discriminating against blacks. Both Fred Trump, the company’s chairman, and Donald Trump, its president, were named as defendants. It was front-page news, and for Donald, amounted to his debut in the public eye.


​

  • 1973: The US Department of Justice — under the Nixon administration, out of all administrations — sued the Trump Management Corporation for violating the Fair Housing Act. Federal officials found evidencethat Trump had refused to rent to black tenants and lied to black applicants about whether apartments were available, among other accusations. Trump said the federal government was trying to get him to rent to welfare recipients. In the aftermath, he signed an agreement in 1975 agreeing not to discriminate to renters of color without admitting to discriminating before.
  • 1980s: Kip Brown, a former employee at Trump's Castle, accused another one of Trump's businesses of discrimination. "When Donald and Ivana came to the casino, the bosses would order all the black people off the floor," Brown said. "It was the eighties, I was a teenager, but I remember it: They put us all in the back."
  • 1988: In a commencement speech at Lehigh University, Trump spent much of his speechaccusing countries like Japan of "stripping the United States of economic dignity." This matches much of his current rhetoric on China.
  • 1989: In a controversial case that’s been characterized as a modern-day lynching, four black teenagers and one Latino teenager — the "Central Park Five" — were accused of attacking and raping a jogger in New York City. Trump immediately took charge in the case, running an ad in local papers demanding, "BRING BACK THE DEATH PENALTY. BRING BACK OUR POLICE!" The teens’ convictions were later vacated after they spent seven to 13 years in prison, and the city paid $41 million in a settlement to the teens. But Trump in October 2016 said he still believes they’re guilty, despite the DNA evidence to the contrary.
  • 1991: A book by John O’Donnell, former president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, quoted Trump’s criticism of a black accountant: "Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control." Trump at first denied the remarks, but later said in a 1997 Playboy interview that "the stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true."
  • 1992: The Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino had to pay a $200,000 fine because it transferred black and women dealers off tables to accommodate a big-time gambler’s prejudices.
  • 2000: In opposition to a casino proposed by the St. Regis Mohawk tribe, which he saw as a financial threat to his casinos in Atlantic City, Trump secretly ran a series of ads suggesting the tribe had a "record of criminal activity [that] is well documented."
  • 2004: In season two of The Apprentice, Trump fired Kevin Allen, a black contestant, for being overeducated. "You're an unbelievably talented guy in terms of education, and you haven’t done anything," Trump said on the show. "At some point you have to say, ‘That’s enough.’"
  • 2005: Trump publicly pitched what was essentially The Apprentice: White People vs. Black People. He said he "wasn't particularly happy" with the most recent season of his show, so he was considering "an idea that is fairly controversial — creating a team of successful African Americans versus a team of successful whites. Whether people like that idea or not, it is somewhat reflective of our very vicious world."
  • 2010: In 2010, there was a huge national controversy over the "Ground Zero Mosque" — a proposal to build a Muslim community center in Lower Manhattan, near the site of the 9/11 attacks. Trump opposed the project, calling it "insensitive," and offered to buy outone of the investors in the project. On The Late Show With David Letterman, Trump argued, referring to Muslims, "Well, somebody’s blowing us up. Somebody’s blowing up buildings, and somebody’s doing lots of bad stuff."
  • 2011: Trump played a big role in pushing false rumors that Obama — the country’s first black president — was not born in the US. He even sent investigators to Hawaii to look into Obama's birth certificate. Obama later released his birth certificate, calling Trump a "carnival barker." (The research has found a strong correlation between "birtherism," as this conspiracy theory is called, and racism.) Trump has reportedly continued pushing this conspiracy theory in private.
  • 2011: While Trump suggested that Obama wasn’t born in the US, he also argued that maybe Obama wasn’t a good enough student to have gotten into Columbia or Harvard Law School, and demanded Obama release his university transcripts. Trump claimed, "I heard he was a terrible student. Terrible. How does a bad student go to Columbia and then to Harvard?"

As a candidate and president, Trump has made many more racist comments​

​

On top of all that history, Trump has repeatedly made racist — often explicitly so — remarks on the campaign trail and as president:​

​

​

  • Trump launched his campaign in 2015 by calling Mexican immigrants "rapists" who are "bringing crime" and "bringing drugs" to the US. His campaign was largely built on building a wall to keep these immigrants out of the US.
  • As a candidate in 2015, Trump called for a ban on all Muslims coming into the US. His administration’s attempts at implementing a watered-down version of this policy have been contested in courts.
  • When asked at a 2016 Republican debate whether all 1.6 billion Muslims hate the US, Trump said, "I mean a lot of them. I mean a lot of them."
  • He argued in 2016 that Judge Gonzalo Curiel — who was overseeing the Trump University lawsuit — should recuse himself from the case because of his Mexican heritage and membership in a Latino lawyers association. House Speaker Paul Ryan, who endorsed Trump, later called such comments "the textbook definition of a racist comment."
  • Trump has been repeatedly slow to condemn white supremacists who endorse him, and he regularly retweeted messages from white supremacists and neo-Nazis during his presidential campaign.
  • He tweeted and later deleted an image that showed Hillary Clinton in front of a pile of money and by a Jewish Star of David that said, "Most Corrupt Candidate Ever!" The tweet had some very obvious anti-Semitic imagery, but Trump insisted that the star was a sheriff’s badge, and said his campaign shouldn’t have deleted it.
  • Trump has repeatedly referred to Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), who has said she has Cherokee ancestors, as "Pocahontas."
  • At the 2016 Republican convention, Trump officially seized the mantle of the "law and order" candidate — an obvious dog whistleplaying to white fears of black crime, even though crime in the US is historically low. His speeches, comments, and executive actions after he took office have continued this line of messaging.
  • In a pitch to black voters in 2016, Trump said, "You’re living in poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs, 58 percent of your youth is unemployed. What the hell do you have to lose?"
  • Trump stereotyped a black reporter at a press conference in February 2017. When April Ryan asked him if he plans to meet and work with the Congressional Black Caucus, he repeatedly asked her to set up the meeting — even as she insisted that she’s "just a reporter."
  • In the week after white supremacist protests in Charlottesville, Virginia, in August 2017, Trump repeatedly said that "many sides" and "both sides" were to blame for the violence and chaos that ensued — suggesting that the white supremacist protesters were morally equivalent to counterprotesters that stood against racism. He also said that there were "some very fine people" among the white supremacists. All of this seemed like a dog whistle to white supremacists — and many of them took it as one, with white nationalist Richard Spencer praising Trump for "defending the truth."
  • Throughout 2017, Trump repeatedly attacked NFL players who, by kneeling or otherwise silently protesting during the national anthem, demonstrated against systemic racism in America.
  • Trump reportedly said in 2017 that people who came to the US from Haiti "all have AIDS," and he lamented that people who came to the US from Nigeria would never "go back to their huts" once they saw America. The White House denied that Trump ever made these comments.
  • Speaking about immigration in a bipartisan meeting in January 2018, Trump reportedly asked, in reference to Haiti and African countries, "Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?" He then reportedly suggested that the US should take more people from countries like Norway. The implication: Immigrants from predominantly white countries are good, while immigrants from predominantly black countries are bad.
  • Trump denied making the "shithole" comments, although some senators present at the meeting said they happened. The White House, meanwhile, suggested that the comments, like Trump’s remarks about the NFL protests, will play well to his base. The only connection between Trump’s remarks about the NFL protests and his "shithole" comments is race.

​
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I've always thought his comments regarding Judge Gonzalo Curiel were all the evidence anyone should need.

But this....

Trump has repeatedly referred to Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), who has said she has Cherokee ancestors, as "Pocahontas".
Click to expand...

....should well and truly put paid to any lingering doubt.
 
The Other Dean said:
Out of interest, K4e, what would they be (circa now)?

Can you expand?



'Narcissist', 'psychopath', and 'racist', aren't really buzzwords in the strictest sense though, are they? No matter how de rigueur their overuse may be in certain circles these days.

'Moron' definitely isn't a buzzword. That's a time-honored classic!

But I agree with the sentiment. Buzzwords are for the tip, and often only serve to detract from meaningful political discussion. Whenever I hear or read terms like 'sjw' and 'virtue signalling' (and yes, their equivalents on the other side of the political fence), I just assume the person employing them is a 'moron'.

Although I guess the upside is that people who choose to employ these asinine terms to rail against every political or societal development/progression that they disagree with (no matter how trivial or insignificant), usually just buy themselves an express, one-way ticket straight to Self-Parody Station.
Click to expand...
I have mentioned a few in this thread and many in the gender thread. The use of fear with identity politics, disproportionately representing existing threats, fear based conspiracy theories (more media related), labelling etc. The right wing elements approach to identity politics has not really changed in the last 200 years of political conservative variations. In comparison, some left leaning variants have gradually gotten more extremist since the 1960 movements and they have been fuelled a lot by tertiary academia as many radicals became lecturers as the conservative lecturers moved on in the 1960/1970s. Anyway, I have gone through that a million times.

I am sure you have your own list of criticisms, so I’ll leave it at that for a start.

Strictest sense, no they are not buzzwords, contextually speaking, they are buzzwords because they have been so bastardised by far left elements and the orange man is bad fanatics. I do agree, that is why I am so careful in using terms like variants/elements, in order to be, ironically enough, politically correct. I do not like some of the terms, virtue signalling is nearly as ambiguous as terms like ‘dog whistle’ or supporting ‘a culture of’.
Val Keating said:
Sorry mate, I’m tired, I didn’t read that. Do you think he’s racist? Yes or no?
Click to expand...
No, reasons above.
Val Keating said:
I honestly hope he chokes on a Big Mac. He’s toxic.
Click to expand...
I would not wish that on James Hird. I thought the left was suppose, generally and stereotypically speaking, to be people who base their politics more on feelings and a (often misguided) dutiful sense of empathy, interesting turn of events.
 
Kangaroos4eva said:
I have mentioned a few in this thread and many in the gender thread. The use of fear with identity politics, disproportionately representing existing threats, fear based conspiracy theories (more media related), labelling etc. The right wing elements approach to identity politics has not really changed in the last 200 years of political conservative variations. In comparison, some left leaning variants have gradually gotten more extremist since the 1960 movements and they have been fuelled a lot by tertiary academia as many radicals became lecturers as the conservative lecturers moved on in the 1960/1970s. Anyway, I have gone through that a million times.

I am sure you have your own list of criticisms, so I’ll leave it at that for a start.

Strictest sense, no they are not buzzwords, contextually speaking, they are buzzwords because they have been so bastardised by far left elements and the orange man is bad fanatics. I do agree, that is why I am so careful in using terms like variants/elements, in order to be, ironically enough, politically correct. I do not like some of the terms, virtue signalling is nearly as ambiguous as terms like ‘dog whistle’ or supporting ‘a culture of’.

No, reasons above.

I would not wish that on James Hird. I thought the left was suppose, generally and stereotypically speaking, to be people who base their politics more on feelings and a (often misguided) dutiful sense of empathy, interesting turn of events.
Click to expand...

Are you assuming I’m a lefty? I’m somewhere in the middle tbh. I just don’t like Trump, he’s a terrible human. I think he’s dangerous. He’s destabilising his own country, never has the tension between the left and right been so toxic. He’s feeding that. You only need to read the threads under his tweets to see it.

Their government is shut down at the moment because he’s throwing a hissy fit over some stupid wall that, if built won’t even achieve anything other then him being able to puff his chest out and say he won. Ffs bad lettuce killed more people in America last year then illegal immigrants, yet this mother****er goes on on about Mexicans coming through the boarder and killing people.

There never even used to be a problem with mass illegal immigration till the war on drugs meant America strengthened its southern boarder putting a stop to circular migration.
 
The Other Dean said:
For those who may be interested....

Chomsky on Trump (from an interview last year).....


From the point of US elites, he’s giving them everything they want. In fact, what’s going on in the United States is kind of a two-tier wrecking ball. Whether this is conscious or not, I don’t know. But you can see what’s happening – Trump’s role is to ensure that the media and public attention are always concentrated on him. So every time you turn on a TV set – Trump. Open the front page of a newspaper – Trump. He’s a conman....basically a showman. And in order to maintain public attention, you have to do something crazy, otherwise no-one’s going to pay any attention to you. So everyday there’s one insane thing after another.

And while this show is going on in public, in the background the wrecking crew is working...Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell...the guys in the Cabinet who write his Executive Orders...what they’re doing is systematically dismantling every aspect of government that works for the benefit of the population. This goes from worker’s rights, to pollution of the environment, rules for protecting consumers. I mean, anything you can think of is being dismantled. And all efforts are being devoted – almost with fanaticism – to enrich and empower their actual constituency, which is super-wealth and corporate power.


And some other fairly recent stuff he's had to say on the same subject....

https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...rump-and-republican-allies-criminally-insane/

https://www.globalpolicyjournal.com...ter-noam-chomsky-trump-and-future-us-politics

https://www.alternet.org/2018/05/noam-chomsky-donald-trump-and-me-first-doctrine/
Click to expand...

Love me some Noam
 
Val Keating said:
Are you assuming I’m a lefty? I’m somewhere in the middle tbh. I just don’t like Trump, he’s a terrible human. I think he’s dangerous. He’s destabilising his own country, never has the tension between the left and right been so toxic. He’s feeding that. You only need to read the threads under his tweets to see it.

Their government is shut down at the moment because he’s throwing a hissy fit over some stupid wall that, if built won’t even achieve anything other then him being able to puff his chest out and say he won. Ffs bad lettuce killed more people in America last year then illegal immigrants, yet this mother****** goes on on about Mexicans coming through the boarder and killing people.

There never even used to be a problem with mass illegal immigration till the war on drugs meant America strengthened its southern boarder putting a stop to circular migration.
Click to expand...
Judging by your posting, centre-left is my guess.

The USA was toxic long before Trump, it is why many on the right voted for him because he called out the toxicity in regards to the media and academia pushing extremist identity politics on to the rest of us. You can trace the toxicity and divisions a long way back, many of the divisions have been around since the two parties were formed and others a lot more recently.

The culmination over issues like identity politics, media hypocrisy, media outlets pushing their agenda on others and social justice was the 2016 presidential election results rather than the results forming the toxicity and divisions. During the campaign and even now, the level of disproportion, hypocrisy and inaccurate reporting in regards to Trump was beyond hysterical. Calling him a fascist, a nazi, that he is going to start WWIII, crap like "as a women, I am afraid for my rights", all this is disproportionate garbage is pure hysteria and is nowhere near the realms of reality. The counter-protests after his elections is one of the biggest examples of peak hysteria, and you could even argue self-entitlement, my person did not win, so I am going to throw my toys out the cot.

Call him out on his policies, you can easily criticize the shutdown, Syria withdrawal, China trade war, etc, not focusing on amateur psychology trying to determine if he's a physco or not. Rational proportional responses are needed, as people voted for him for a reason and it is not because they are 'country bumpkins', there are deeper issues at play here that have been simmering long before Trump and will happen long after he is gone. You wishing him dead is symptomatic and indicative of how far some centrists have gone down the rabbit hole over a fairly stereotypical, but naive/moronic republican president. Even George Bush Jr. did not cope this level of ire and he was an even bigger moron than Trump is now. Much of the US media sucked up to George bush senior after his death purely to spite Trump and to exploit the drama of it all. The situation is ridiculous and I blame the fourth estate and tertiary education for many of the current divisions.

So what if bad lettuce killed more people, don't you want to protect all life? It is lazy reasoning. It is like me saying, more people died from the flu than murder, so therefore we can ignore murder as a problem.

Mass illegal migration has always been a problem for western countries, particularly for right-leaning governments as they approach the issue based on economic rationalist grounds. Is there enough housing, is there enough financial resources, are these people going to add to the primary culture, are these people going to work skilled jobs, what are the extra energy demands, are locals going to be disadvantaged, is there enough food via farming, are they being security checked for the odd criminal, are they going to be on social welfare, are they enough education resources available etc. Circular migration is filled with historical examples of economic exploitation and poor economic conditions, the situation was not much better than it is now. It does not matter anyway as US companies have just shifted many of their operations down to Mexico. The war on drugs has been happening effectively since 1969 via Nixon.
 
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Kangaroos4eva said:
Judging by your posting, centre-left is my guess.

The USA was toxic long before Trump, it is why many on the right voted for him because he called out the toxicity in regards to the media and academia pushing extremist identity politics on to the rest of us. You can trace the toxicity and divisions a long way back, many of the divisions have been around since the two parties were formed and others a lot more recently.

The culmination over issues like identity politics, media hypocrisy, media outlets pushing their agenda on others and social justice was the 2016 presidential election results rather than the results forming the toxicity and divisions. The level of disproportion, hypocrisy and inaccurate reporting in regards to Trump is beyond hysterical. Calling him a fascist, a nazi, that he is going to start WWIII, crap like "as a women, I am afraid for my rights", all this is disproportionate garbage is pure hysteria and nowhere near the realms of reality. The counter-protests after his elections is one of the biggest examples of peak hysteria, and you could even argue self-entitlement, my person did not win, so I am going to throw my toys out the cot.

Call him out on his policies, you can easily criticize the shutdown, Syria withdrawal, China trade war, etc, not focusing on amateur psychology trying to determine if he's a physco or not. Rational proportional responses are needed, as people voted for him for a reason and it is not because they are 'country bumpkins', there are deeper issues at play here that have been simmering long before Trump and will happen long after he is gone. You wishing him dead has shown how far centrists have gone down the rabbit hole over a fairly stereotypical, but naive/moronic republican president. Even George Bush Jr. did not cope this level of ire.

So what if bad lettuce killed more people, don't you want to protect all life? It is lazy reasoning. It is like me saying, more people died from the flu than murder, so therefore we can ignore murder as a problem.

Mass illegal migration has always been a problem for western countries, particularly for right-leaning governments as they approach the issue based on economic rationalist grounds. Is there enough housing, is there enough financial resources, are these people going to add to the primary culture, are these people going to work skilled jobs, what are the extra energy demands, are locals going to be disadvantaged, is there enough food via farming, are they being security checked for the odd criminal, are they going to be on social welfare, are they enough education resources available etc. Circular migration is filled with historical examples of economic exploitation and poor economic conditions, the situation was not much better than it is now. It does not matter anyway as US companies have just shifted operations down to Mexico. The war on drugs has been happening effectively since 1969 via Nixon.
Click to expand...

I’m not getting into all the policy stuff, I’m far too lazy for that. I don’t like him as a person. The wall will achieve nothing. That he’s shut his government down over it is a disgrace. He made a promise that Mexico was going to pay for it, they said no and now he’s trying to force his country to pay for it, which according to recent polls the majority don’t want it (something like 80% of the people who actually live on the boarder do not want it). His own countrymen (you know the ones he loves so much) with federal jobs haven’t been paid since the shutdown.

If he cares so much about stopping people from killing people, how about doing something that’s worth shutting the government over, gun reform.

Honestly a wall? What a waste of time and money.
 
Val Keating said:
I’m not getting into all the policy stuff, I’m far too lazy for that. I don’t like him as a person. The wall will achieve nothing. That he’s shut his government down over it is a disgrace. He made a promise that Mexico was going to pay for it, they said no and now he’s trying to force his country to pay for it, which according to recent polls the majority don’t want it (something like 80% of the people who actually live on the boarder do not want it). His own countrymen (you know the ones he loves so much) with federal jobs haven’t been paid since the shutdown.

If he cares so much about stopping people from killing people, how about doing something that’s worth shutting the government over, gun reform.

Honestly a wall? What a waste of time and money.
Click to expand...
Careful with relying on polls, they can be biased little things with average methodology. For example, I only had to google and found this, a left-leaning media outlet that say polls wise, most republicans want the wall, https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...blicans-democrats-graham-pelosi-a8726206.html. There are already walls in place anyway.

If Obama couldn’t overcome the nra, no one will, at least for a while. Gun reform in the USA is political suicide and you'll never get bipartisan support for it; Howard did it in Australia and lost voters to Pauline Hansen.
 
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Val Keating said:
Maybe I am a lefty. I really like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Mainly because of he dancing though. It’s pretty cool that she’s 100% people funded too
Click to expand...
Well she is a socialist, so that is extreme left.

Do yourself a favour and figure out how she is going to pay for her $42 trillion socialist utopia, it is quite funny. She said she'll tax the rich, but that would only generate a few trillion and then force the rich to move out of the country, killing most, if not all, future economic growth. She has an economics degree and she zero clue how to even basically justify her plan. She is the left's Donald Trump.
 
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