Opinion Vent & Offtopic

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I think the obvious solution is to build the list around Academy players and the core group of players that have committed to the GC. Going with Weller, Crossley and Nutting in the Draft (yes, I know everybody's offended about that, but get over it) takes away the go home factor, as well as Dawson and Heron in the Rookie Draft. Those 5 guys, plus Bowes, Scheer, Joyce, and Spencer, have the potential to become core players over the next 10 years. Imagine if we drafted 4 or 5 each year, with some guys genuine top 10 and others definite Draft material, plus our record of converting local rookies is improving.

When putting together the Suns list, the AFL required the new franchise to choose a number of Zone Selections. Some of them worked out, like May, Thompson, McKenzie, Nicholls, Shaw and Matera, who have played 400 plus games for the Suns, but you can see by 3 of them leaving that the overall talent level wasn't going to win us premierships. There were a whole lot of washouts that barely contributed too.

Charlie Dixon is the most notable zone selection - he was the first Sun recruited - yet he was traded to Port for the picks that landed Callum Ah Chee (whose brother had already played for the Suns) and other picks that enabled the Suns to move into the 1st round in 2016 plus pinch Pearce Hanley from the Lions. Is Dixon worth 3 players? Port thought so and it might come back to bite them.

The wantaway players like Harley Bennell, Zac Smith, Dion Prestia, Jaeger O'Maera and Josh Caddy actually delivered a return. Bennell's trade landed us Fiorini and Schoenfeld for #22. Zac Smith was traded for Mackenzie Willis and Dan Currie. Prestia was bundled with #24 for the pick that got us Jack Scrimshaw and Charlie Ballard. Caddy was essentially traded for the pick that landed Jesse Lonergan. O'Meara became Bowes and the spare change from the 2016 trading period became 2017 2nd picks that have become 2018's 1st round pick.
 
17er said:
I think the obvious solution is to build the list around Academy players and the core group of players that have committed to the GC. Going with Weller, Crossley and Nutting in the Draft (yes, I know everybody's offended about that, but get over it) takes away the go home factor, as well as Dawson and Heron in the Rookie Draft. Those 5 guys, plus Bowes, Scheer, Joyce, and Spencer, have the potential to become core players over the next 10 years. Imagine if we drafted 4 or 5 each year, with some guys genuine top 10 and others definite Draft material, plus our record of converting local rookies is improving.

When putting together the Suns list, the AFL required the new franchise to choose a number of Zone Selections. Some of them worked out, like May, Thompson, McKenzie, Nicholls, Shaw and Matera, who have played 400 plus games for the Suns, but you can see by 3 of them leaving that the overall talent level wasn't going to win us premierships. There were a whole lot of washouts that barely contributed too.

Charlie Dixon is the most notable zone selection - he was the first Sun recruited - yet he was traded to Port for the picks that landed Callum Ah Chee (whose brother had already played for the Suns) and other picks that enabled the Suns to move into the 1st round in 2016 plus pinch Pearce Hanley from the Lions. Is Dixon worth 3 players? Port thought so and it might come back to bite them.

The wantaway players like Harley Bennell, Zac Smith, Dion Prestia, Jaeger O'Maera and Josh Caddy actually delivered a return. Bennell's trade landed us Fiorini and Schoenfeld for #22. Zac Smith was traded for Mackenzie Willis and Dan Currie. Prestia was bundled with #24 for the pick that got us Jack Scrimshaw and Charlie Ballard. Caddy was essentially traded for the pick that landed Jesse Lonergan. O'Meara became Bowes and the spare change from the 2016 trading period became 2017 2nd picks that have become 2018's 1st round pick.
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Jesse Haberfield was the first sun ever recruited.. Charlie Dixon was second.
 

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17er said:
I think the obvious solution is to build the list around Academy players and the core group of players that have committed to the GC. Going with Weller, Crossley and Nutting in the Draft (yes, I know everybody's offended about that, but get over it) takes away the go home factor, as well as Dawson and Heron in the Rookie Draft. Those 5 guys, plus Bowes, Scheer, Joyce, and Spencer, have the potential to become core players over the next 10 years. Imagine if we drafted 4 or 5 each year, with some guys genuine top 10 and others definite Draft material, plus our record of converting local rookies is improving.

When putting together the Suns list, the AFL required the new franchise to choose a number of Zone Selections. Some of them worked out, like May, Thompson, McKenzie, Nicholls, Shaw and Matera, who have played 400 plus games for the Suns, but you can see by 3 of them leaving that the overall talent level wasn't going to win us premierships. There were a whole lot of washouts that barely contributed too.

Charlie Dixon is the most notable zone selection - he was the first Sun recruited - yet he was traded to Port for the picks that landed Callum Ah Chee (whose brother had already played for the Suns) and other picks that enabled the Suns to move into the 1st round in 2016 plus pinch Pearce Hanley from the Lions. Is Dixon worth 3 players? Port thought so and it might come back to bite them.

The wantaway players like Harley Bennell, Zac Smith, Dion Prestia, Jaeger O'Maera and Josh Caddy actually delivered a return. Bennell's trade landed us Fiorini and Schoenfeld for #22. Zac Smith was traded for Mackenzie Willis and Dan Currie. Prestia was bundled with #24 for the pick that got us Jack Scrimshaw and Charlie Ballard. Caddy was essentially traded for the pick that landed Jesse Lonergan. O'Meara became Bowes and the spare change from the 2016 trading period became 2017 2nd picks that have become 2018's 1st round pick.
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Just quietly if we are adding 4-5 QLD academy players yearly..
We’ll forever linguish around the bottom of the ladder.

The star talent just isnt common enough.
 
Ben Drever said:
Just quietly if we are adding 4-5 QLD academy players yearly..
We’ll forever linguish around the bottom of the ladder.

The star talent just isnt common enough.
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Agreed, I think we can find the diamonds but most will be delisted after their 3 years
 
Ben Drever said:
Just quietly if we are adding 4-5 QLD academy players yearly..
We’ll forever linguish around the bottom of the ladder.

The star talent just isnt common enough.
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That's the glass half empty approach. We have added Bowes, Scheer, Joyce, Spencer and Weller plus this year's group of four from essentially the past 3 drafts. If we can continue to hit 2 to 3 locally produced players a year, it will make up a third to half of our recruitment. This significantly reduces the risk of wantaway players as these guys are already at home. The net result would be up to 20 locally produced players in 5 or 6 years time.

Suggesting that "The star talent just isnt common enough" in the same week as Jason Dunstall was named as a legend of the Queensland Sports Hall Of Fame and the same year that Nick Reiwoldt retired makes you sound pessimistic. Historically, there hasn't been enough talent to fill a competitive football team, but with youth participation up every year and the Suns vast zone to recruit talent things are looking bloody good.
 
The suns have announced they are looking for a new multimedia producer for digital media team.

You think they heard us?
 
17er said:
That's the glass half empty approach. We have added Bowes, Scheer, Joyce, Spencer and Weller plus this year's group of four from essentially the past 3 drafts. If we can continue to hit 2 to 3 locally produced players a year, it will make up a third to half of our recruitment. This significantly reduces the risk of wantaway players as these guys are already at home. The net result would be up to 20 locally produced players in 5 or 6 years time.

Suggesting that "The star talent just isnt common enough" in the same week as Jason Dunstall was named as a legend of the Queensland Sports Hall Of Fame and the same year that Nick Reiwoldt retired makes you sound pessimistic. Historically, there hasn't been enough talent to fill a competitive football team, but with youth participation up every year and the Suns vast zone to recruit talent things are looking bloody good.
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We're not the only Queensland club, though. You can bet your bottom dollar that Brisbane will have a similar list strategy in landing talented local lads, too (ie, Dayne Beams and Dayne Zorko). Being from Queensland doesn't stop players from jumping ship, either; Zac Smith and Charlie Dixon were raised in Queensland.

It's not quite the Brisbane Lions glory days when they had Akermanis, Ashcroft, Black, and Voss running around in the same team, either. Brisbane have Dayne Beams and Dayne Zorko, but that's as good as Queensland bred talent is at the moment. Interstate talent has to compliment the list.

reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_rules_football_in_Queensland
 
jackenny said:
We're not the only Queensland club, though. You can bet your bottom dollar that Brisbane will have a similar list strategy in landing talented local lads, too (ie, Dayne Beams and Dayne Zorko). Being from Queensland doesn't stop players from jumping ship, either; Zac Smith and Charlie Dixon were raised in Queensland.

It's not quite the Brisbane Lions glory days when they had Akermanis, Ashcroft, Black, and Voss running around in the same team, either. Brisbane have Dayne Beams and Dayne Zorko, but that's as good as Queensland bred talent is at the moment. Interstate talent has to compliment the list.

reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_rules_football_in_Queensland
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Brisbane don't have access to our Northern Zone - nor PBC School. They have their own local recruiting areas though.
I'm hoping both will be successful and that both Queensland teams will become less dependent on outside recruitment as a result..
 
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17er said:
That's the glass half empty approach. We have added Bowes, Scheer, Joyce, Spencer and Weller plus this year's group of four from essentially the past 3 drafts. If we can continue to hit 2 to 3 locally produced players a year, it will make up a third to half of our recruitment. This significantly reduces the risk of wantaway players as these guys are already at home. The net result would be up to 20 locally produced players in 5 or 6 years time.

Suggesting that "The star talent just isnt common enough" in the same week as Jason Dunstall was named as a legend of the Queensland Sports Hall Of Fame and the same year that Nick Reiwoldt retired makes you sound pessimistic. Historically, there hasn't been enough talent to fill a competitive football team, but with youth participation up every year and the Suns vast zone to recruit talent things are looking bloody good.
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Except Weller is from Tassie, and Scheer from WA. so of the three 'best' players you listed (other being Bowes) only 1 is really from QLD. the others are likely to only ever be role players/depth. Agree with Ben, in the short term bringing in primarily Academy players each draft would be a recipe for being perennial cellar dwellers.
that will change in time as local participation increases (which will be slow until we get some success). maybe in 15/20 years we will be able to do a primarily academy recruiting strategy (if they haven't taken our academy away by then)
 

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Iva Bigun said:
Grublett on AFL.com

"The other one as well is just being back at the football club where it all started for me. It's a great football club, they do things very, very well here."
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If he’s having a backhander at us then he’s having a backhander at himself

He’s an integral part of the set up
Which displays again what a moron he is
 
SandyToes said:
:eek::eek:
If guess getting pushed off the gangplank is a form of jumping ship
May he never return
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:p

To be fair, there was a period (Zac Smith's first year at Geelong) when it looked like he was going to turn a real corner, becoming one of the preeminent ruckman in the game. I remember Gerard Healy commenting (putting the boot in, something he likes to do) that he was in All-Australian conversations. Thankfully, he remained a middling talent. Otherwise, that would've been absolutely depressing - mainly because I can't stand Healy and his blah-blah against the Suns.
 
jackenny said:
:p

To be fair, there was a period (Zac Smith's first year at Geelong) when it looked like he was going to turn a real corner, becoming one of the preeminent ruckman in the game. I remember Gerard Healy commenting (putting the boot in, something he likes to do) that he was in All-Australian conversations. Thankfully, he remained a middling talent. Otherwise, that would've been absolutely depressing - mainly because I can't stand Healy and his blah-blah against the Suns.
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take a number and get in line....;)
 
jackenny said:
We're not the only Queensland club, though. You can bet your bottom dollar that Brisbane will have a similar list strategy in landing talented local lads, too (ie, Dayne Beams and Dayne Zorko). Being from Queensland doesn't stop players from jumping ship, either; Zac Smith and Charlie Dixon were raised in Queensland.

It's not quite the Brisbane Lions glory days when they had Akermanis, Ashcroft, Black, and Voss running around in the same team, either. Brisbane have Dayne Beams and Dayne Zorko, but that's as good as Queensland bred talent is at the moment. Interstate talent has to compliment the list.

reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_rules_football_in_Queensland
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Yeah, only the Lions Captain and their Best and Fairest. Queensland talent is rubbish! BTW, there's a bloke from NT running around for the Suns who was a Zone selection and he just signed a contract extension.
 
GCStormie said:
Except Weller is from Tassie, and Scheer from WA. so of the three 'best' players you listed (other being Bowes) only 1 is really from QLD. the others are likely to only ever be role players/depth. Agree with Ben, in the short term bringing in primarily Academy players each draft would be a recipe for being perennial cellar dwellers.
that will change in time as local participation increases (which will be slow until we get some success). maybe in 15/20 years we will be able to do a primarily academy recruiting strategy (if they haven't taken our academy away by then)
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That's being disingenuous. Weller and Scheer weren't born on the GC but they see themselves as locals. What you aren't seeming to understand, or others, is that I'm not suggesting we take a 100% local recruitment strategy. Perhaps I haven't expressed myself clearly enough or you're just reading what you want to read into it, but the jist of what I'm saying is that a balanced approach to drafting and trading with a continued emphasis on local provided it doesn't compromise best talent available is the current and most sustainable method to building a list with potential to become a truly great playing group.
I will keep banging on about this because club culture is super important and it can't simply be created out of nothing or synthetically reproduced. Geelong, hate them as we may, have a brilliant culture around their club, but it didn't come from those 80s and 90s sides that lost 4 GFs. The club's culture when Mark Thompson took over was toxic, with faded "heroes" from the glory days hogging big salaries and trading on reputation over form. It all came to a head in 2001 when the Cats played the Blues and Princes Park. Carlton was playing footy, but Geelong was trying to make up for their talent deficiency by being thugs, with the end result being Milburn KO'd Silvagni and had had to be escorted out of the ground by police escort. It took some time, but Geelong flipped their list, changed their football department structure, recruited heavily from the local area and the result was 3 flags in 5 seasons.
The Gold Coast Suns need to do a range of things in order to develop a club culture that produces success. One of those things is to build a list of players that all want to live on the GC.
 
17er said:
Yeah, only the Lions Captain and their Best and Fairest. Queensland talent is rubbish! BTW, there's a bloke from NT running around for the Suns who was a Zone selection and he just signed a contract extension.
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FYI, I purposefully didn't mention May due to him being from the Northern Territory. It doesn't seem right to include players from the Northern Territory when talking about the local talent our state is producing; otherwise, I'd be banging on about what a great 'local talent' we produced in Cyril Rioli. In saying that, I definitely think there's merit in what you're saying. When the Brisbane Lions were at the top of their game, they had a small handful of genuine star-studded Queensland-bred talent. It starts at grass roots football, certainly. But, we'd be waiting for a perfect storm. The Brisbane Lions had Voss, Black, and Akermanis in their team's midfield (all Queenslanders, all Brownlow medalists), simply damn lucky. Remembering, of course, that Akermanis cracked the poos and went to the Bulldogs - not 100% blemish free.

Thinking on it, putting aside list space specifically for Queensland kids could be beneficial if it's not resources devoted to immediate depth. Basically, it's devoting list spots for locals to run around in our magoos - but also giving them the chance to rise to AFL level and be put under some professional microscope, hopefully growing the game. They probably already do this, though - don't quote me on this, not entirely familiar with our magoo's list of players.
 
jackenny said:
FYI, I purposefully didn't mention May due to him being from the Northern Territory. It doesn't seem right to include players from the Northern Territory when talking about the local talent our state is producing; otherwise, I'd be banging on about what a great 'local talent' we produced in Cyril Rioli. In saying that, I definitely think there's merit in what you're saying. When the Brisbane Lions were at the top of their game, they had a small handful of genuine star-studded Queensland-bred talent. It starts at grass roots football, certainly. But, we'd be waiting for a perfect storm. The Brisbane Lions had Voss, Black, and Akermanis in their team's midfield (all Queenslanders, all Brownlow medalists), simply damn lucky. Remembering, of course, that Akermanis cracked the poos and went to the Bulldogs - not 100% blemish free.

Thinking on it, putting aside list space specifically for Queensland kids could be beneficial if it's not resources devoted to immediate depth. Basically, it's devoting list spots for locals to run around in our magoos - but also giving them the chance to rise to AFL level and be put under some professional microscope, hopefully growing the game. They probably already do this, though - don't quote me on this, not entirely familiar with our magoo's list of players.
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If they are the last couple spots on the list then no issue with it as a kid from QLD looks to develop and settle better (e.g. Joyce, Spencer) than a kid relocating from interstate when the difference in talent is marginal.

Clearly the first 2 picks in most drafts most years will go to interstate kids where there is a clear difference in talent.
 
Iva Bigun said:
I see our fearless leader SUNS has won best clubman at his local club, just goes to show you the power of free HJ’s out the back of the sheds ;)

Congrats mate
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Haha :D

Best clubman in the our darts association. It is the equivalent of the brownlow. Best and fairest - Just without the best part :p
 

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