VFA Revival?

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If you’re going to have an old style VFA Revivel for starters you need the VFL clubs that used to play VFA plus clubs from the Essendon Eastern Northern Mornington Peninsula Geelong and Ballarat comps.
For a structure maybe think outside the box and have a full on Night competition with Friday and Saturday night games only.
 
I would suggest that some of the prime candidates from metro competitions to join may be happier in their smaller pond with a good chance of success year on year, while a couple of clubs might have greater ambitions and want to play in such a league.

The key factor is money. Where will it come from? Not the AFL - why would they bankroll a competition that would compete with the AFL reserves in terms of players, sponsorships and supporters. As we saw with the VFA, the AFL are not going to help or fund a rival competition. The AFL would want you to watch their 2s, which would more than likely be curtain raisers to AFL matches, instead of spending your money outside of their bubble.

The media coverage for a new competition would be minimal. There would be no coverage in the dailies as any coverage would go to the AFL and the reserves - you may be lucky to get the scores in the Monday Herald-Sun. The local rags would be the only ones to cover it but it would be far from comprehensive, maybe just a short report - a far cry from the footy coverage we saw in the Leader newspapers in the 1970s and 1980s for the VFA and local leagues.

Without the money, media coverage and financial support from the AFL, this new league could well end up with the status of being just another suburban comp rather quickly unless it could find a sugar daddy (or daddies) to pump significant amounts of money to make it sustainable.

I feel such a competition would never reach the standing of the VFA in this current football landscape - despite the fact that most of us here want it to came back and be what it once was.
 

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Mr north man said:
If you’re going to have an old style VFA Revivel for starters you need the VFL clubs that used to play VFA plus clubs from the Essendon Eastern Northern Mornington Peninsula Geelong and Ballarat comps.
For a structure maybe think outside the box and have a full on Night competition with Friday and Saturday night games only.
Click to expand...
AND the occasional Thursday night too.
 
MortlockWatcher said:
I would suggest that some of the prime candidates from metro competitions to join may be happier in their smaller pond with a good chance of success year on year, while a couple of clubs might have greater ambitions and want to play in such a league.

The key factor is money. Where will it come from? Not the AFL - why would they bankroll a competition that would compete with the AFL reserves in terms of players, sponsorships and supporters. As we saw with the VFA, the AFL are not going to help or fund a rival competition. The AFL would want you to watch their 2s, which would more than likely be curtain raisers to AFL matches, instead of spending your money outside of their bubble.

The media coverage for a new competition would be minimal. There would be no coverage in the dailies as any coverage would go to the AFL and the reserves - you may be lucky to get the scores in the Monday Herald-Sun. The local rags would be the only ones to cover it but it would be far from comprehensive, maybe just a short report - a far cry from the footy coverage we saw in the Leader newspapers in the 1970s and 1980s for the VFA and local leagues.

Without the money, media coverage and financial support from the AFL, this new league could well end up with the status of being just another suburban comp rather quickly unless it could find a sugar daddy (or daddies) to pump significant amounts of money to make it sustainable.

I feel such a competition would never reach the standing of the VFA in this current football landscape - despite the fact that most of us here want it to came back and be what it once was.
Click to expand...
I'd lile to think
 
MortlockWatcher said:
I would suggest that some of the prime candidates from metro competitions to join may be happier in their smaller pond with a good chance of success year on year, while a couple of clubs might have greater ambitions and want to play in such a league.

The key factor is money. Where will it come from? Not the AFL - why would they bankroll a competition that would compete with the AFL reserves in terms of players, sponsorships and supporters. As we saw with the VFA, the AFL are not going to help or fund a rival competition. The AFL would want you to watch their 2s, which would more than likely be curtain raisers to AFL matches, instead of spending your money outside of their bubble.

The media coverage for a new competition would be minimal. There would be no coverage in the dailies as any coverage would go to the AFL and the reserves - you may be lucky to get the scores in the Monday Herald-Sun. The local rags would be the only ones to cover it but it would be far from comprehensive, maybe just a short report - a far cry from the footy coverage we saw in the Leader newspapers in the 1970s and 1980s for the VFA and local leagues.

Without the money, media coverage and financial support from the AFL, this new league could well end up with the status of being just another suburban comp rather quickly unless it could find a sugar daddy (or daddies) to pump significant amounts of money to make it sustainable.

I feel such a competition would never reach the standing of the VFA in this current football landscape - despite the fact that most of us here want it to came back and be what it once was.
Click to expand...
In your opinion what happens to the current standalones IF the reserves comp gets up?
 
They would end up in metro comps.

Coburg to the EDFL or NFNL (probably as a pairing with Preston).
Frankston to the MPNFL.
Port Melbourne to the SFNL or the WRFL.
Preston to the NFNL or the EDFL.
Werribee to the GFL or the WRFL.
Williamstown to WRFL or EDFL.

I would assume that the Box Hill Hawks would morph into Hawthorn's twos and likewise Sandy with St Kilda.

One factor is that some of the VFL-listed players at these clubs may decide to play with their suburban club instead. That could put a couple of current VFL clubs in precarious positions and these clubs will struggle to reach the status that they held in the football landscape in the pre-VFL era.
 
MortlockWatcher said:
They would end up in metro comps.

Coburg to the EDFL or NFNL (probably as a pairing with Preston).
Frankston to the MPNFL.
Port Melbourne to the SFNL or the WRFL.
Preston to the NFNL or the EDFL.
Werribee to the GFL or the WRFL.
Williamstown to WRFL or EDFL.

I would assume that the Box Hill Hawks would morph into Hawthorn's twos and likewise Sandy with St Kilda.

One factor is that some of the VFL-listed players at these clubs may decide to play with their suburban club instead. That could put a couple of current VFL clubs in precarious positions and these clubs will struggle to reach the status that they held in the football landscape in the pre-VFL era.
Click to expand...
Also, AFL clubs must increase their lists from 45 to around 55 to service two teams.AFL clubs would have to get at least 5-10 current VFL players to fill the numbers gap and become 'top-up' players. They would be on the basic VFL contract.
 
MortlockWatcher said:
They would end up in metro comps.

Coburg to the EDFL or NFNL (probably as a pairing with Preston).
Frankston to the MPNFL.
Port Melbourne to the SFNL or the WRFL.
Preston to the NFNL or the EDFL.
Werribee to the GFL or the WRFL.
Williamstown to WRFL or EDFL.

I would assume that the Box Hill Hawks would morph into Hawthorn's twos and likewise Sandy with St Kilda.

One factor is that some of the VFL-listed players at these clubs may decide to play with their suburban club instead. That could put a couple of current VFL clubs in precarious positions and these clubs will struggle to reach the status that they held in the football landscape in the pre-VFL era.
Click to expand...
Perhaps Williamstown could approach the Willi CYs, currently in B Grade VAFA for a discussion?
 
MortlockWatcher said:
They would end up in metro comps.

Coburg to the EDFL or NFNL (probably as a pairing with Preston).
Frankston to the MPNFL.
Port Melbourne to the SFNL or the WRFL.
Preston to the NFNL or the EDFL.
Werribee to the GFL or the WRFL.
Williamstown to WRFL or EDFL.

I would assume that the Box Hill Hawks would morph into Hawthorn's twos and likewise Sandy with St Kilda.

One factor is that some of the VFL-listed players at these clubs may decide to play with their suburban club instead. That could put a couple of current VFL clubs in precarious positions and these clubs will struggle to reach the status that they held in the football landscape in the pre-VFL era.
Click to expand...
I hate to sound like a broken record but this isn't a guaranteed path for these clubs. Why would any of these metro leagues want to accept clubs from a grade above them, especially the stronger clubs like Werribee and Williamstown? Even Frankston apparently wouldn't be accepted into the MPFNL because they're worried we'd dominate (and even if they did let us join, we wouldn't have a strong enough supporter base to survive.) I don't see how this scenario doesn't involve a few clubs struggling or folding outright.
 
I was only suggesting possible leagues, but I also believe that there will be some casualties if the AFL reserves comes to fruition.

I reckon that there would be pushback from metro comps if clubs tried to join because of how it would affect their competition, especially EFNL clubs after the Berwick and Beaconsfield entry and the almost-completed competition restructure that has been taking place over a number of seasons, and the EDFL after the entry of St Albans and Deer Park required re-alignment over time as well. I would expect similar pushback with NFNL clubs, especially the contending Div. 2 clubs.
 
SeaSide said:
Perhaps Williamstown could approach the Willi CYs, currently in B Grade VAFA for a discussion?
Click to expand...

No disrespect to the Ammos - very good standard at the top, good competition, but for Willy VFL it would be a huge cultural shock to go from a semi professional environment with half a dozen full time employees, regularly playing against fully professional, full time footballers to move to an amateur environment.

Very few of the VFL footballers would remain to play VAFA I reckon. The Willy of today would become unrecognisable and their 160 year history would become history.

I also don't think it would work if Willy became a "local" club, competing with the CYs for local players, given they're only 500 metres apart. That would weaken both of the Willy clubs. Another 40 odd players would have to be found and Willy is not a big place.

Really fear for the current stand alones if the AFL, with their Reserves comp, snub them. I think all of the stand alones would experience similar problems.
 

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Dogs till i die said:
No disrespect to the Ammos - very good standard at the top, good competition, but for Willy VFL it would be a huge cultural shock to go from a semi professional environment with half a dozen full time employees, regularly playing against fully professional, full time footballers to move to an amateur environment.

Very few of the VFL footballers would remain to play VAFA I reckon. The Willy of today would become unrecognisable and their 160 year history would become history.

I also don't think it would work if Willy became a "local" club, competing with the CYs for local players, given they're only 500 metres apart. That would weaken both of the Willy clubs. Another 40 odd players would have to be found and Willy is not a big place.

Really fear for the current stand alones if the AFL, with their Reserves comp, snub them. I think all of the stand alones would experience similar problems.
Click to expand...
I also don't think it would work if Willy became a "local" club, competing with the CYs for local players.
Willy is a local club. However, the only locals on the team have come from the CYs.
Should they amalgamate, they wouldn't be competing for players - the two clubs would be one club.
 
I'd be shocked if the VFA came back. Not commercially viable.
 
MortlockWatcher said:
They would end up in metro comps.

Coburg to the EDFL or NFNL (probably as a pairing with Preston).
Frankston to the MPNFL.
Port Melbourne to the SFNL or the WRFL.
Preston to the NFNL or the EDFL.
Werribee to the GFL or the WRFL.
Williamstown to WRFL or EDFL.

I would assume that the Box Hill Hawks would morph into Hawthorn's twos and likewise Sandy with St Kilda.

One factor is that some of the VFL-listed players at these clubs may decide to play with their suburban club instead. That could put a couple of current VFL clubs in precarious positions and these clubs will struggle to reach the status that they held in the football landscape in the pre-VFL era.
Click to expand...
Preston & Coburg fold.

Currently both are getting players from local league to fill their VFL side, those players won't be available and neither has any local support left.
 
SeaSide said:
AND the occasional Thursday night too.
Click to expand...
I’d be up for a Thursday nights but the biggest hurdles would who outside the old VFA clubs would you bring in.
As atm you have.
1:Werribee.
2:Williamstown:
3:Coburg.
4:Frankston.
5:port Melbourne.
6:preston.
7:Sandringham.
8:Casey.
9:Box Hill.
That’s 9 clubs then do you invite other clubs in EG Noble Park from Eastern Frankston YCW from MPFL for example but do you start with 10 or 12 teams and over the years maybe extend it to 2 Divisions like the old days.
Then if you have it as a night competition have some Thursday night games starting at 6pm then Friday and Saturday night games can start at 7pm.
As for rules have 16 a side 6 on the bench.
4 Quarters made up of 2X20 minute then 3rd+4th Quaters 25 minutes plus time on .
If games are level at full time
Play either 1st score wins or have 2X7 minute halves.
You have 4 umpires but 3 only on the ground at one time.
But overall the biggest thing a re vamp of the VFA would need would be $$$$ to run it,Sponsors and Media Coverage.
This maybe a pipe dream but hay wouldn’t the old VFA be fantastic to have back.
 
Sliding doors moment ...

The VFA came within a week of becoming the major football competition in Victoria in August 1986 ...

The possible result would have been that five VFL clubs become part of a 10-club national league, probably run by the NFL, with the other seven clubs needing to prove their solvency to corporate affairs. Those that passed muster would probably have ended up in the VFA in 1987 while harbouring ambitions to rise to national league level.

www.theage.com.au

Saving football: New documents reveal how close the VFL came to shutting down

In 1986, the Victorian Football League came perilously close to being shut down. Thirty years on, never before seen documents reveal how close the end nearly came.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au
 
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Mr north man said:
I’d be up for a Thursday nights but the biggest hurdles would who outside the old VFA clubs would you bring in.
As atm you have.
1:Werribee.
2:Williamstown:
3:Coburg.
4:Frankston.
5:port Melbourne.
6:preston.
7:Sandringham.
8:Casey.
9:Box Hill.
That’s 9 clubs then do you invite other clubs in EG Noble Park from Eastern Frankston YCW from MPFL for example but do you start with 10 or 12 teams and over the years maybe extend it to 2 Divisions like the old days.
Then if you have it as a night competition have some Thursday night games starting at 6pm then Friday and Saturday night games can start at 7pm.
As for rules have 16 a side 6 on the bench.
4 Quarters made up of 2X20 minute then 3rd+4th Quaters 25 minutes plus time on .
If games are level at full time
Play either 1st score wins or have 2X7 minute halves.
You have 4 umpires but 3 only on the ground at one time.
But overall the biggest thing a re vamp of the VFA would need would be $$$$ to run it,Sponsors and Media Coverage.
This maybe a pipe dream but hay wouldn’t the old VFA be fantastic to have back.
Click to expand...
I'm with you NM.

VFA (or VSFA or VSFL)

Should the former VFA clubs be ejected from the current competition, there is a solution.

There are currently nine former VFA clubs now in the VFL.

A new competition could accommodate all of those clubs; however, some might struggle to grasp the concept.

Box Hill

Aligned with Hawthorn.

Either split and go with the new competition or evaporate as a club.

Casey

Aligned with Melbourne.

Either split and go with the new competition or evaporate as a club.

Coburg

Should embrace the new competition.

Frankston

Should embrace the new competition.

Northern Bullants

Should embrace the new competition.

Port Melbourne

Should embrace the new competition.

Sandringham

Aligned with St KIlda.

Either split and go with the new competition or evaporate as a club.

Werribee

Should embrace the new competition.

Williamstown

Should embrace the new competition.

The AFL should not oppose but endorse the concept. It promotes grass-roots football with junior players (not the elite who have been identified), who see that their local club has a chance to be successful and that they could be noticed within the local and broader football world.

Good suburban and country footballers will be drawn to these clubs.

For its startup, the new competition would require football clubs to apply for inclusion.

Assuming that there are 20 clubs in the new league, all clubs should play against each other once in an initial season.

After year two, a two-tier league (perhaps with two or three ups and downs) would follow the following season.

Some clubs will leave voluntarily with others on the sidelines waiting for inclusion.

The English Premier League (EPL) has a promotion/relegation system, whereas “every” club in the UK can aspire to the top division.

For example, Fish Creek vs. Port Melbourne for the title of the ‘best’ Victorian Club.

Such a system would turn local footy upside down and generate not only a following but also sponsorships and TV. The fixture shouldn’t compete with AFL or VFL fixtures, therefore games could be played on Thursday evenings, early on Friday evenings, and Sundays from 11 a.m. or Noon. Other options will be available after the VFL + AFL fixtures have been released.

I’m a former VFA man, and I'm just thinking.

BTW, many former VFA clubs have been subsumed into local leagues. Most will never rise and we don’t want that to happen to our current clubs.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS.
 
AFLW are set to announce that their seasons are expected to start earlier from next year, as early as late June.

It is likely that most AFLW matches will be staged midweek, especially in the first half of their season, so that there is some clean air away from the AFL matches on weekends. Between midweek matches and potential for some AFLW/AFL double-headers on weekends, on top of VFL matches on weekends, there would be no oxygen for a revived VFA competition to get any media exposure outside of live streaming.

Live streaming is a plus for the profile of metro and country leagues, with a number of leagues providing coverage of a number of games each week, but it isn't the cash cow that this league may well need. First you need to spend the money in order to create the product.

The best regular mainstream media profile any league outside of the AFL, AFLW and VFL can hope for are their scores, goal kickers and ladders to be printed in the Monday Herald-Sun at best.

Once the AFLW season moves, the TV broadcast schedules will be full of AFL and AFLW matches, with the VFL getting a morsel here and there. There will be no room for the rest.
 
MortlockWatcher said:
AFLW are set to announce that their seasons are expected to start earlier from next year, as early as late June.

It is likely that most AFLW matches will be staged midweek, especially in the first half of their season, so that there is some clean air away from the AFL matches on weekends. Between midweek matches and potential for some AFLW/AFL double-headers on weekends, on top of VFL matches on weekends, there would be no oxygen for a revived VFA competition to get any media exposure outside of live streaming.

Live streaming is a plus for the profile of metro and country leagues, with a number of leagues providing coverage of a number of games each week, but it isn't the cash cow that this league may well need. First you need to spend the money in order to create the product.

The best regular mainstream media profile any league outside of the AFL, AFLW and VFL can hope for are their scores, goal kickers and ladders to be printed in the Monday Herald-Sun at best.

Once the AFLW season moves, the TV broadcast schedules will be full of AFL and AFLW matches, with the VFL getting a morsel here and there. There will be no room for the rest.
Click to expand...
MW, what you’ve written is spot on.

I endeavour to develop ideas to revive our former VFA clubs and incorporate them into a statewide VFA-like league. The goal is to give every club in Victoria the chance to compete to become the state's top ‘Victorian’ football club.

I agree with your point that the AFL has eclipsed this concept. However, by discussing this issue with the hierarchy, obstacles such as grounds and game times can be overcome.

The concept could be a winner, but only with the AFL’s support. What a great way for them to kick a popular goal, thus encouraging grassroots football.
 
The AFL's focus is on the AFL. The last thing they want is grassroots football diverting attention (and especially money) away from the AFL - they want to maximise AFL memberships, attendances and revenue and people watching grassroots football instead is not what they want you to do.

That is apparent in the disdain they have shown for senior grassroots football in recent years. They want footballers to do what people do in US sports - stop playing by the age of 21 if they aren't good enough to play at an elite level and go and attend AFL games instead.

The only grassroots football the AFL cares about is the junior system because it feeds the AFL. Spending money on senior grassroots football is wasted spending in their eyes.

Hell will freeze over before they agree to this concept.
 

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