Game Day VFL Round 15 - Brisbane vs Richmond at Brighton Homes Arena

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Coach_Required said:
I'd rather Bauer a success story than another failure, if you can't see the difference in body shape of those players you mentioned you need to have a lay down.
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The only thing that should be taken away from that Bauer performance is his work in the backline where it could be argued he was our best player for the day. Going forward and being the match winner was the result of throwing caution to the wind and evening up the numbers in their defence where alongside Soldo also pushing higher we exposed their smaller defence and Bauer was able to cash in.

Pick Bauer forward next week and that doesn't happen. We play our system with one behind the ball and all of a sudden he is constantly out numbered and in all likelihood doesn't get anywhere near it, already evidence of this with his struggles VFL level this season thus the change in position in the first place. Having a strong set of hands and being a big body makes you look like a superstar at VFL level but the step up to AFL requires a lot more, the other traits Bauer has suggest he is more likely to make it playing as a third tall defender.

As it is currently we don't have a spot in the team for him there at AFL level so make him demand a spot by playing more games like today to the point where we have to select him. The same applies to Brown, Tresize and to a lesser extent Banks, continue to get confidence and develop their games at VFL level and by the time an opportunity does present itself for them they will be ready to step up.

This is how you develop players, don't gift them games for the sake of it. Needs to be a clear role and understanding of what is required of them at AFL level, look at our flag winning team from 2017 compared to 2020 and there were a number of changes will those guys working on their craft at VFL level and eventually replacing 'our heroes' from 2017.
 

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TigerImposter said:
I'm still flabbergasted as to why Bauer starts in the BL where we are in need to look at possible Forward replacements in the ones. He's got no hope of getting a game in our ones team as our poorest player there is our co-captain in Grimes.
Also Bradtke for 3.5 quarters is then playing on two men bc BIGGY is a spud in the FL and Bradtke kicking is also unreliable.
In the last 15min of the 3rd we totally owned the game, but had nobody standing up to kick goals for us with all the f50 entries we had.
Next week I want pace and extra marking power added tour Seniors so i'm going for Brown, . We need speed in our seniors and if Minibus can't see it then he will be lucky to get the gig.Bauer, MRJ and Coulthard in for any of Pickett, JGTI, KMac, Cumberland, Cotchin, HRS and Ryan
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Would be nice of they told us hey. I am choosing to believe its purely educational as he doesn't work hard enough when he plays forward for 4 quarters.
 
Tomnat Tigers said:
The only thing that should be taken away from that Bauer performance is his work in the backline where it could be argued he was our best player for the day. Going forward and being the match winner was the result of throwing caution to the wind and evening up the numbers in their defence where alongside Soldo also pushing higher we exposed their smaller defence and Bauer was able to cash in.

Pick Bauer forward next week and that doesn't happen. We play our system with one behind the ball and all of a sudden he is constantly out numbered and in all likelihood doesn't get anywhere near it, already evidence of this with his struggles VFL level this season thus the change in position in the first place. Having a strong set of hands and being a big body makes you look like a superstar at VFL level but the step up to AFL requires a lot more, the other traits Bauer has suggest he is more likely to make it playing as a third tall defender.

As it is currently we don't have a spot in the team for him there at AFL level so make him demand a spot by playing more games like today to the point where we have to select him. The same applies to Brown, Tresize and to a lesser extent Banks, continue to get confidence and develop their games at VFL level and by the time an opportunity does present itself for them they will be ready to step up.

This is how you develop players, don't gift them games for the sake of it. Needs to be a clear role and understanding of what is required of them at AFL level, look at our flag winning team from 2017 compared to 2020 and there were a number of changes will those guys working on their craft at VFL level and eventually replacing 'our heroes' from 2017.
Click to expand...
You seriously believe there is no spot for him! Miller can't mark because he goes for them one handed, Ryan can't mark because a strong wind blows him over, and Jack can't mark because father time and their best defenders take him or double team him. Cumberland took 5 marks last night because he is something of a natural marker, or at least he goes for them.

Bauer kicked 3 in round 1 & 2 then was sent back, he wasn't struggling. It was a strange choice I thought at the time, Bradtke kicked a bag on of those games so maybe they backed him.

Of course the AFL is another level, but Bauer goes hard at the ball in the air, and he has strong hands. He is only 193cm but has a good leap. But he is a competitor and a pretty natural forward, something our tall forwards are lacking in spades.

Besides what have we got to lose.
 
TigerImposter said:
I'm still flabbergasted as to why Bauer starts in the BL where we are in need to look at possible Forward replacements in the ones. He's got no hope of getting a game in our ones team as our poorest player there is our co-captain in Grimes.
Also Bradtke for 3.5 quarters is then playing on two men bc BIGGY is a spud in the FL and Bradtke kicking is also unreliable.
In the last 15min of the 3rd we totally owned the game, but had nobody standing up to kick goals for us with all the f50 entries we had.
Next week I want pace and extra marking power added to our Seniors . We need speed in our seniors and if Minibus can't see it then he will be lucky to get the gig. Changes Bauer, MRJ, Coulthard and Brown for any of Pickett, JGTI, KMac, Cumberland, Cotchin, HRS and Ryan
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Cos we love burning kids natural talents away
 
db26 said:
So why is Bauer playing in defence if his capable of that and he is a natural forward ?. Hang on as usual we don't play players to there strengths.
Click to expand...

Has to learn the defensive side of the game
 
Tomnat Tigers said:
The only thing that should be taken away from that Bauer performance is his work in the backline where it could be argued he was our best player for the day. Going forward and being the match winner was the result of throwing caution to the wind and evening up the numbers in their defence where alongside Soldo also pushing higher we exposed their smaller defence and Bauer was able to cash in.

Pick Bauer forward next week and that doesn't happen. We play our system with one behind the ball and all of a sudden he is constantly out numbered and in all likelihood doesn't get anywhere near it, already evidence of this with his struggles VFL level this season thus the change in position in the first place. Having a strong set of hands and being a big body makes you look like a superstar at VFL level but the step up to AFL requires a lot more, the other traits Bauer has suggest he is more likely to make it playing as a third tall defender.

As it is currently we don't have a spot in the team for him there at AFL level so make him demand a spot by playing more games like today to the point where we have to select him. The same applies to Brown, Tresize and to a lesser extent Banks, continue to get confidence and develop their games at VFL level and by the time an opportunity does present itself for them they will be ready to step up.

This is how you develop players, don't gift them games for the sake of it. Needs to be a clear role and understanding of what is required of them at AFL level, look at our flag winning team from 2017 compared to 2020 and there were a number of changes will those guys working on their craft at VFL level and eventually replacing 'our heroes' from 2017.
Click to expand...
In all respect we're not near our flag years. This is we're the club mindset is wrong thinking finals a realistic. The year should be about development and getting games into our kids missing the trick here. To your point some players keep getting games and are not performing in the afl.
 

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Grrr said:
Except last time when they needed to win after the siren.

It had me stumped way back then, when we needed a forward in the seniors, why they put our most likely forward back in the VFL. One thing good has come from it, his all round game has improved.
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Yeah I think that was the goal. His work rate as a forward was pretty poor, he'd often be screaming for the ball 70m+ away instead of working up the ground. Hopefully he has learnt some lessons.
 
Bauer has been playing down back for most of this year bc his defensive side when he was playing forward was non existent

he has come along nicely while playing down back, applying pressure, reading the play well, marking and setting up play

hes 100% fit…very lean compared to what he looked like last year…moves really well…doesn’t seem to waste a possession.

he is a true forward though and after 3 goals in the last, 11 marks, 21 disposals and 3 tackles, he is ready to come into the seniors…
 
Grrr said:
You seriously believe there is no spot for him! Miller can't mark because he goes for them one handed, Ryan can't mark because a strong wind blows him over, and Jack can't mark because father time and their best defenders take him or double team him. Cumberland took 5 marks last night because he is something of a natural marker, or at least he goes for them.

Bauer kicked 3 in round 1 & 2 then was sent back, he wasn't struggling. It was a strange choice I thought at the time, Bradtke kicked a bag on of those games so maybe they backed him.

Of course the AFL is another level, but Bauer goes hard at the ball in the air, and he has strong hands. He is only 193cm but has a good leap. But he is a competitor and a pretty natural forward, something our tall forwards are lacking in spades.

Besides what have we got to lose.
Click to expand...

There is no long term spot for him there. Would be a complete waste of time developing him in a spot that will see him off the list in two seasons time. At best he provides the same output as those players, if we actually care for his development then he continues to play in the back line at VFL level.

Miller can't mark which is why he is literally playing as a defensive forward, his job last night was to spoil Andrews and bring the ball to ground. He actually did alright at that last night, the few intercept marks Andrews took was when Miller wasn't able to make the contest and we stupidly decided to kick down the line to where Andrews was. Sampson is a ruck but at VFL level he showed a lot more than Bauer did as a forward, being 206cm you're naturally going to have to force the opposition to play a tall defender on you and show some form of respect. Cumberland is the perfect example on a natural forward, he finds space, he uses his body well, he competes well above what his size suggest he should, much the same as Riewoldt.

Bauer doesn't do any of those things, give him a mismatch 1v1 or a clear run and jump and he looks good but that rarely happens at AFL level. For starters at AFL level he is at a size disadvantage and there is less room to operate with elite spare defenders causing most contest to be at a numbers disadvantage.

He could have kicked two bags of 10 and it wouldn't make a difference, its what he doesn't do that wont cut it at AFL level. Reading the ball early, not being constantly out of position, making multiple efforts, finding space, size, chasing, crashing packs. Going hard at the ball and having strong hands means nothing at AFL level as a forward. Guys like Liam Jones, James Scicily, McGovern brothers are possess those traits and have at times played forward but like Bauer looked better in the backline. The few times they did look good forward was when much like today and against GWS their teams threw caution to the wind and went all out attack.

Will finish on this. I suspect the coaches praise this week will highlights his defensive efforts more so than going forward and having an impact.
 
db26 said:
In all respect we're not near our flag years. This is we're the club mindset is wrong thinking finals a realistic. The year should be about development and getting games into our kids missing the trick here. To your point some players keep getting games and are not performing in the afl.
Click to expand...

Does that matter? Do you think playing out of position at AFL level is better than gaining confidence and developing into your role at VFL level. Guys like Butler and McIntosh didn't play any afl games in their first 2 years and come year 3 they stepped in and barely missed a game. We've picked up guys like Broad, Pickett and Lambert who spent years in the VFL working on their craft and came in made an impact.

AFL games are beneficial theres no denying that but they need to be earn't and there should be a clear role for the player before playing. The worst thing we could do is to pick a player like Sonsie and ask him to play the role Pickett has been playing the last month.

Tresize and Banks are two who on form deserve to be the next picked but the guys in front on them aren't our issue. We could probably pick either over HRS but then they likely play as the sub. Is that good for their development?
 
TigerImposter said:
I'm still flabbergasted as to why Bauer starts in the BL where we are in need to look at possible Forward replacements in the ones. He's got no hope of getting a game in our ones team as our poorest player there is our co-captain in Grimes.
Also Bradtke for 3.5 quarters is then playing on two men bc BIGGY is a spud in the FL and Bradtke kicking is also unreliable.
In the last 15min of the 3rd we totally owned the game, but had nobody standing up to kick goals for us with all the f50 entries we had.
Next week I want pace and extra marking power added to our Seniors . We need speed in our seniors and if Minibus can't see it then he will be lucky to get the gig. Changes Bauer, MRJ, Coulthard and Brown for any of Pickett, JGTI, KMac, Cumberland, Cotchin, HRS and Ryan
Click to expand...
Agree if he doesn’t pull a few changes he’s really making a rod for his own back , easily 5 changes possible ,,, Min 3 or he’s absolutely kidding
 
Tomnat Tigers said:
There is no long term spot for him there. Would be a complete waste of time developing him in a spot that will see him off the list in two seasons time. At best he provides the same output as those players, if we actually care for his development then he continues to play in the back line at VFL level.

Miller can't mark which is why he is literally playing as a defensive forward, his job last night was to spoil Andrews and bring the ball to ground. He actually did alright at that last night, the few intercept marks Andrews took was when Miller wasn't able to make the contest and we stupidly decided to kick down the line to where Andrews was. Sampson is a ruck but at VFL level he showed a lot more than Bauer did as a forward, being 206cm you're naturally going to have to force the opposition to play a tall defender on you and show some form of respect. Cumberland is the perfect example on a natural forward, he finds space, he uses his body well, he competes well above what his size suggest he should, much the same as Riewoldt.

Bauer doesn't do any of those things, give him a mismatch 1v1 or a clear run and jump and he looks good but that rarely happens at AFL level. For starters at AFL level he is at a size disadvantage and there is less room to operate with elite spare defenders causing most contest to be at a numbers disadvantage.

He could have kicked two bags of 10 and it wouldn't make a difference, its what he doesn't do that wont cut it at AFL level. Reading the ball early, not being constantly out of position, making multiple efforts, finding space, size, chasing, crashing packs. Going hard at the ball and having strong hands means nothing at AFL level as a forward. Guys like Liam Jones, James Scicily, McGovern brothers are possess those traits and have at times played forward but like Bauer looked better in the backline. The few times they did look good forward was when much like today and against GWS their teams threw caution to the wind and went all out attack.

Will finish on this. I suspect the coaches praise this week will highlights his defensive efforts more so than going forward and having an impact.
Click to expand...
The thing is, we have no other options. And yes I think Miller's job is to bring it to ground, I mentioned before Port that he should tag Allir and again Andrews. Ryan is a ruck and Cumberland is a natural. And what of Jack. He has no impact at all lately. I'm not advocating dropping Jack because of what he has done for the club and that he can be handy, but in the last 9 games he has gone goalless in 4 of them and kicked 1 in another. And he will not be around next season.
Ryan has kicked 4 goals in the last 8 games, and has done almost nothing as a forward in that time. He is a ruckman essentially who can pinch hit up forward. Miller can do that roll while he has a spell.

That's a hell of a crystal ball you've got in regard to Bauer. He may well be a waste of development, but he may not. Not sure if you watched today's game but he was marking them from all angles. He is slightly unders for a lead up forward, but he is taller than Darling who made a career out of it, and he has a good leap and is not afraid to use it.

Of course it is harder at AFL level, but he dominated the game today as a back and as a marking forward, our weakest position. If they don't play him after Thursday nights game I will be fairly shocked.
 

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