VFL VFL Round 2 v Port Melbourne @ ETU Stadium. Saturday April 1st 7:35pm

[No SPIN]

I don't necessarily disagree, but this wasn't your original argument at all, you've completely reframed the discussion.

I'm not even remotely caught up on who the player should be, I was just adamant heading into the season, and even more so now, that we needed an experienced dedicated backup ruck on our list. I think McAvoy would've been the wisest choice, but yeah, like I said, don't really mind who it was, I just think it was pretty clear we needed someone and it's pretty obvious if we had Naismith, he'd be playing next week. We've neglected our VFL ruck stocks since we had Hudson.

Agree the argument was quite simple - who fills Ruck if Cox or Cameron get injured?
The answer was never going to be Steene - so by definition a mature Ruck was an obvious need.

 

[No SPIN]

Begg may not be much of a ruck, but he's shown even less as a back - including attributes in my opinion. At the moment, ruck is the only AFL position that he could be considered for.

I agree with you, if we are wedded to the 2 ruck system, but I don't think we are - otherwise you're right we should have added another AFL ready ruck. Kreuger injured and a supposedly poor preseason by Johnson left us playing 2 rucks for the first fortnight - but I think Johnson will stop us going that way again if we get them all fit. Kreuger would have the potential to do likewise.

I can’t see the optimism about Krueger - his Ruck stints were poor last year.
He looked like a gangly, uncoordinated novice IMO.

 

[No SPIN]

I’m inclined to think that Begg the AFL player is a wasted list spot tbh, but as I said, until the club says he’s not a ruck, he’s a ruck.

Tall, athletic, agile and mobile is not a combination of traits that should be tossed out easily.
And with injury interruptions , Begg really hasn’t had a decent opportunity to prove himself.

 

[Apex36]

Tall, athletic, agile and mobile is not a combination of traits that should be tossed out easily.
And with injury interruptions , Begg really hasn’t had a decent opportunity to prove himself.

A person can have all the athletic traits in the world, but if they don’t have the footy brain to utilise them then they’re useless. So far I haven’t seen much from Begg to inspire confidence. He doesn’t seem to be a strong mark, he doesn’t kick goals and his tap work is so-so.
In the space of a couple of games I’ve seen more in Steene as a ruckman than I have in Begg in 18 months.

 

[Bianconeri]

But I don't think we were planning on a two ruck system.

Based on what? we’ve played two rucks every game when Cox and Cameron were fit this season and played two rucks every game bar one last season.

 

[sr36]

Based on what? we’ve played two rucks every game when Cox and Cameron were fit this season and played two rucks every game bar one last season.

Based on us not recruiting another ruck. You don't lock in a plan to have two rucks in the team and only have two ready rucks on the list, maybe 3 if they think Begg is ready. We obviously went into the year comfortable with only playing one ruck. Otherwise, it's appalling list management - which seems really unlikely to me.

 

[Bianconeri]

Based on us not recruiting another ruck. You don't lock in a plan to have two rucks in the team and only have two ready rucks on the list, maybe 3 if they think Begg is ready. We obviously went into the year comfortable with only playing one ruck. Otherwise, it's appalling list management - which seems really unlikely to me.

More likely there wasn’t any mature age ruckman they liked then a conscious choice to go in with a one ruck system.

 

[Bianconeri]

I can’t see the optimism about Krueger - his Ruck stints were poor last year.
He looked like a gangly, uncoordinated novice IMO.

Tall, athletic, agile and mobile is not a combination of traits that should be tossed out easily.
And with injury interruptions , Begg really hasn’t had a decent opportunity to prove himself.

I’m not sure how you can hold these two positions simultaneously

 

[sr36]

More likely there wasn’t any mature age ruckman they liked then a conscious choice to go in with a one ruck system.

I don't think a one ruck system would be the right way of saying it either.

A first ruck and then whoever offers the most out of the blokes who are going to do a combination of ruck and forward is how I'd assume they'd think about it. That could mean Cox - a bloke who can do both to a similar level or it could mean a better forward who can compete and chop out the first ruck.

That's the list they've gone with and what we're going to have for much of the season. If we can get one of our rucks on the park.

 

[Quicky]

It’s very important to correctly capture exactly which positions Begg is incapable of playing. Whether it’s his primary position of incapability or a secondary one.

I'd like to see if he is incapable of playing forward or back.

 

[Quicky]

I’m inclined to think that Begg the AFL player is a wasted list spot tbh, but as I said, until the club says he’s not a ruck, he’s a ruck.

That plays into what I see as the list management mistake in the off season. I think we've rated Begg too highly in that role and it's had a flow on effect for list composition that sees us short in the ruck atm. It'll be interesting to see if we adjust in the MSD (if we take a pick) or end of season.

 

[No SPIN]

A person can have all the athletic traits in the world, but if they don’t have the footy brain to utilise them then they’re useless. So far I haven’t seen much from Begg to inspire confidence. He doesn’t seem to be a strong mark, he doesn’t kick goals and his tap work is so-so.
In the space of a couple of games I’ve seen more in Steene as a ruckman than I have in Begg in 18 months.

Only a decent run of consecutive games will give us the answer.
I don’t see Begg as a pure Ruckman like Steene so the comparison is really not of concern, unless you feel it’s a choice between one and the other.

I don’t see it that way.

 

[No SPIN]

I’m not sure how you can hold these two positions simultaneously

I thought Begg showed the ability to Ruck in the few games he played last year, but Krueger didn’t.
I just felt Kreuger looked like a fish out of water.

 

[sr36]

I'd like to see if he is incapable of playing forward or back.

I don't like his chances. His strength is his follow up work around stoppage. Doesn't look like getting near the ball in a contested marking situation.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I don't like his chances. His strength is his follow up work around stoppage. Doesn't look like getting near the ball in a contested marking situation.

A smaller, quicker player would be more value around stoppages. If he can't play forward or back, and lacks height in the ruck, I can't see why we would persist with him.

 

[sr36]

A smaller, quicker player would be more value around stoppages. If he can't play forward or back, and lacks height in the ruck, I can't see why we would persist with him.

He's played one year of VFL and was a good enough competitor to get a couple of games. His second AFL game he struggled big time, but he was competitive in the first. I think he's been written off too early based solely on not being the ideal height. I think he's got some potential as a ruck due to his leap agility and competitiveness.

 

[Quicky]

I don't like his chances. His strength is his follow up work around stoppage. Doesn't look like getting near the ball in a contested marking situation.

It'll be a challenge as Begg is limited overhead, however, he has the ground level game, athleticism and size to take tough match-ups. A close checking spoil first key defender like Presti was. Problem is it doesn't suit our system but its Beggs best bet imo. Hypothetically.

 

[sr36]

It'll be a challenge as Begg is limited overhead, however, he has the ground level game, athleticism and size to take tough match-ups. A close checking spoil first key defender like Presti was. Problem is it doesn't suit our system but its Beggs best bet imo. Hypothetically.

Personally, I wouldn't persist as a KPD, as I think you can get blokes who've shown a heap more in that role elsewhere. I quite like him as a ruck prospect though - he's only really had one year and showed a bit of promise, despite not being ideal height.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

It'll be a challenge as Begg is limited overhead, however, he has the ground level game, athleticism and size to take tough match-ups. A close checking spoil first key defender like Presti was. Problem is it doesn't suit our system but its Beggs best bet imo. Hypothetically.

Beware the big man whose selling point is the small man things.

If he can perhaps pinch-hit in the ruck (when fit), but shows no particular capability as a marking player overhead, then you can start the clock on him already.

As discussed ad nauseum with Grundy, you need your big men to do big men things, because the small guys already do the ground level stuff better, faster and for longer anyway.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I quite like him as a ruck prospect though - he's only really had one year and showed a bit of promise, despite not being ideal height.

Or we could get someone who is the ideal height. Young ruck prospects are not expensive except in terms of development.

 

[Bianconeri]

Beware the big man whose selling point is the small man things.

I can think of 7 million reasons why to be wary.

 

[sr36]

Or we could get someone who is the ideal height. Young ruck prospects are not expensive except in terms of development.

Yeah, that will be the option if he struggles in the VFL when he gets fit. I just think he showed more last year than this board is giving him credit for.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I can think of 7 million reasons why to be wary.

Josh Fraser was in a similar mould of being touted for his ability as a “follower”, but he had excellent matches as a marking forward and was unbelievable in that role in finals. Begg doesn’t have anything like that scope, and it was a weakness of Grundy’s too.

 

[Quicky]

Or we could get someone who is the ideal height. Young ruck prospects are not expensive except in terms of development.

Or a ready-made one

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Or a ready-made one

Crossley sounds like he isn’t really invested, but Moyle was unfortunate to have been in the same MSrD as AJ.